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chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
“Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.” (Quran 3:42)

And We made the son of Mary and his mother as a Sign: We gave them both shelter on high ground, affording rest and security and furnished with springs.” (Quran 23:50)

And Mary the daughter of ‘Imran, who guarded her chastity…” (Quran 66:12)

“And mention in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to an eastern place. And she placed a screen to seclude herself from them. Then We sent to her Our angel (Gabriel), and he took the form of a well-created man before her. She said, “Indeed I seek refuge with the Most Merciful from you, if you do fear God.”[1] (The angel) said, ‘I am only the messenger of your Lord to give to you (the news of) a pure boy.’ She said, ‘How can I have a son, when no man has touched me (in marriage), and I am not a prostitute?’ He said, So your Lord said, ‘It is easy for Me. And We will make him a sign to people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter (already) decided.’” (Quran 19:16-21)

thank you for that

are you aware of the muslims who actually pray to mary?
 

everready

New member
You didn't read what i posted did you?

5) The Quran gives four conflicting accounts of how Muhammad was called to be a prophet--(1) In Suras 53:2-18 and 81:19-24, Allah personally appeared. (2) In Suras 16:102 and 26:192-194 he was called by "the Holy Spirit". (3) In Sura 15:8 the angels announced his prophetic ministry; and , (4) The angel Gabriel told him of his ministry and hands him the Quran. Who were Muhammad's first supposed converts? Genies! Yes, Muhammad supposedly preached to and converted genies in Suras 46:29-35; 72:1-28. How convenient that there was no one around to confirm his prophethood. (see: http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/islam.htm)


6) Islam uses Jihad (holy war) to force religion. The Hadith (another "holy" book of Islam) says that Jihad, or holy war, is the second best thing to believing in Allah and his apostle (Muhammad). Allah's apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and his Apostle." The questioner then asked, "What is the next?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause." (Hadith vol. 1, no. 25).

7) The Quran requires violence. Sura 9:5 says, "Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem of war." Sura 5:33 records what is done to infidels who resist Islam: "Their punishment is...execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from the opposite sides, or exile from the land." Muhammad also burned out eyes with hot irons (Hadith vol. 1, no. 234) and deprived people of water until they died (vol. 8, no. 796).

http://biblebelievers.com/mowery_Islam.html

everready
 
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Bastardly is defined as:
adjective
1. of no value; worthless.
2. spurious; counterfeit:
3. baseborn.

According to the BIBLE:

1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; 4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; 5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; 6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; 7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; 8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; 9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; 10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; 11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: 12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; 13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; 14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; 15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
MATTHEW

Genesis 38:

1 And it came to pass at that time, that Judah went down from his brethren, and turned in to a certain Adullamite, whose name was Hirah. 2 And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite, whose name was Shuah; and he took her, and went in unto her. 3 And she conceived, and bare a son; and he called his name Er. 4 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and she called his name Onan. 5 And she yet again conceived, and bare a son; and called his name Shelah: and he was at Chezib, when she bare him. 6 And Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, whose name was Tamar. 7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. 8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. 9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. 10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also. 11 Then said Judah to Tamar his daughter in law, Remain a widow at thy father's house, till Shelah my son be grown: for he said, Lest peradventure he die also, as his brethren did. And Tamar went and dwelt in her father's house.

12 And in process of time the daughter of Shuah Judah's wife died; and Judah was comforted, and went up unto his sheepshearers to Timnath, he and his friend Hirah the Adullamite. 13 And it was told Tamar, saying, Behold thy father in law goeth up to Timnath to shear his sheep. 14 And she put her widow's garments off from her, and covered her with a vail, and wrapped herself, and sat in an open place, which is by the way to Timnath; for she saw that Shelah was grown, and she was not given unto him to wife. 15 When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face. 16 And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me? 17 And he said, I will send thee a kid from the flock. And she said, Wilt thou give me a pledge, till thou send it? 18 And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him. 19 And she arose, and went away, and laid by her vail from her, and put on the garments of her widowhood. 20 And Judah sent the kid by the hand of his friend the Adullamite, to receive his pledge from the woman's hand: but he found her not. 21 Then he asked the men of that place, saying, Where is the harlot, that was openly by the way side? And they said, There was no harlot in this place. 22 And he returned to Judah, and said, I cannot find her; and also the men of the place said, that there was no harlot in this place. 23 And Judah said, Let her take it to her, lest we be shamed: behold, I sent this kid, and thou hast not found her.

24 And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. 25 When she was brought forth, she sent to her father in law, saying, By the man, whose these are, am I with child: and she said, Discern, I pray thee, whose are these, the signet, and bracelets, and staff. 26 And Judah acknowledged them, and said, She hath been more righteous than I; because that I gave her not to Shelah my son. And he knew her again no more. 27 And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb. 28 And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first. 29 And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez. 30 And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.

Deuteronomy 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Your BIBLE! Not my Quran!
 

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You didn't read what i posted did you?

5) The Quran gives four conflicting accounts of how Muhammad was called to be a prophet--(1) In Suras 53:2-18 and 81:19-24, Allah personally appeared. (2) In Suras 16:102 and 26:192-194 he was called by "the Holy Spirit". (3) In Sura 15:8 the angels announced his prophetic ministry; and , (4) The angel Gabriel told him of his ministry and hands him the Quran. Who were Muhammad's first supposed converts? Genies! Yes, Muhammad supposedly preached to and converted genies in Suras 46:29-35; 72:1-28. How convenient that there was no one around to confirm his prophethood. (see: http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/islam.htm)


6) Islam uses Jihad (holy war) to force religion. The Hadith (another "holy" book of Islam) says that Jihad, or holy war, is the second best thing to believing in Allah and his apostle (Muhammad). Allah's apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and his Apostle." The questioner then asked, "What is the next?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause." (Hadith vol. 1, no. 25).

7) The Quran requires violence. Sura 9:5 says, "Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem of war." Sura 5:33 records what is done to infidels who resist Islam: "Their punishment is...execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from the opposite sides, or exile from the land." Muhammad also burned out eyes with hot irons (Hadith vol. 1, no. 234) and deprived people of water until they died (vol. 8, no. 796).

http://biblebelievers.com/mowery_Islam.html

everready


Sigh. Hadith is a holy "book"? Four conflicting accounts of how Muhammad was caused to be a Prophet? Jihad as a means to spread religion and not state?

Come on..don't use me as a punchbag. This is nonsense. For starters those four accounts are clearly different events in the life of Muhammad and not of one event. Ludicrous to say the least.
 

everready

New member
From the Old Testament

The archaeological evidence demonstrates that the dominant religion in Arabia was the cult of the moon-god. The Old Testament consistently rebuked the worship of the moon-god (Deuteronomy 4:19; 17:3; II KIngs 21:3,5; 23:5; Jeremiah 8:2; 19:13; Zephaniah 1:5). When Israel fell into idolatry, it was usually to the cult of the moon-god.

In Old Testament times, Nabonidus (555-539 BC), the last King of Babylon, built Tayma, Arabia, as a centre of moon-god worship. Segall stated: "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations" (Berta Segall, The Iconography of Cosmic Kingship, the Art Bulletin, vol.xxxviii, 1956, p. 77). Many scholars have also noticed that the moon-god's name, Sin, is a part of such Arabic words as "Sinai", the "wilderness of Sin", and so forth.

When the popularity of the moon-god waned elsewhere, the Arabs remained true to their conviction that the moon-god was the greatest of all gods. While they worshipped 360 gods at the Kabah in Mecca, the moon-god was the chief deity. Mecca was in fact built as a shrine for the moon-god. This is what made it the most sacred site of Arabian paganism.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

everready
 

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I would say (b)
so
you are not aware of this?

The concept of waseela or intercession is upheld only by a portion of Muslims. The last majority reject this notion. God is All-Hearing, All-Seeing and All-Knowing so why take up intercessors?

If intercession is to take place it needn't be requested.

This is a hot potato in Islamic understanding. We reject sainthood though.
 

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"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him." [Noble Quran 41:37]
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
The concept of waseela or intercession is upheld only by a portion of Muslims. The last majority reject this notion. God is All-Hearing, All-Seeing and All-Knowing so why take up intercessors?

If intercession is to take place it needn't be requested.

This is a hot potato in Islamic understanding. We reject sainthood though.

is there a place online where we can search the koran for subjects like this?
 

everready

New member
behead-those-who-insult-islam-300x250.jpg


Not using you as a punching bag, trying to draw a picture of the true nature of Islam.

7) The Quran requires violence. Sura 9:5 says, "Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem of war." Sura 5:33 records what is done to infidels who resist Islam:

"Their punishment is...execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from the opposite sides, or exile from the land." Muhammad also burned out eyes with hot irons (Hadith vol. 1, no. 234) and deprived people of water until they died (vol. 8, no. 796).

http://biblebelievers.com/mowery_Islam.html

everready
 

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is there a place online where we can search the koran for subjects like this?

What do you mean exactly? A place online where you could browse the Quran by topic? If you mean that I don't know.

The concept of waseela being haram is in the heart of Wahhabism/Salafism movement that shook the Sunni World from the nineteenth century and effectively destroyed Esoteric Sufism which was practiced widely (80% of the Ahlul Sunnah) . They believed in intercession through saints and the likes but the Salafists rejected intercession as nothing more than grave worshipping. The Salafists are now in the forefront in destroying Islamic heritages as they thin it leads to grave worshiping. It wasn't surprising that ISIS destroyed the mausoleum of Prophet Jonah. Unlike other issues that are of fiqh (jurisprudence) this is an issue of aqidah (belief).
 

IMJerusha

New member
No, Muslims do not believe that. Well, they state they do and then deny the power of the One True God to accomplish it, leaving Yeshua as some mysterious bastardly liar without His Heavenly Father ("For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.") and Mary's testimony a falsehood.

Bastardly is defined as:
adjective
1. of no value; worthless.
2. spurious; counterfeit:
3. baseborn.

“Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.” (Quran 3:42)

And We made the son of Mary and his mother as a Sign: We gave them both shelter on high ground, affording rest and security and furnished with springs.” (Quran 23:50)

And Mary the daughter of ‘Imran, who guarded her chastity…” (Quran 66:12)

“And mention in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to an eastern place. And she placed a screen to seclude herself from them. Then We sent to her Our angel (Gabriel), and he took the form of a well-created man before her. She said, “Indeed I seek refuge with the Most Merciful from you, if you do fear God.”[1] (The angel) said, ‘I am only the messenger of your Lord to give to you (the news of) a pure boy.’ She said, ‘How can I have a son, when no man has touched me (in marriage), and I am not a prostitute?’ He said, So your Lord said, ‘It is easy for Me. And We will make him a sign to people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter (already) decided.’” (Quran 19:16-21)

If you are going to quote me, or short quote me, do so properly so that people can view my post in the context it was written.

It is interesting to note the use of the word "We" and "Us". Now who would "they" be?
 

IMJerusha

New member
Muhammad does not have any divine attribute. He does not rival God nor is he some sort of avatar or incarnation or shade of God. He showed us the way like the Prophets before him and that's all

Yeshua said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." As I posted a bit ago. Islam makes a liar of Yeshua and since Islam is the brain child of Muhammad, there are no prophets in the religion before him.
 

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Yeshua said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." As I posted a bit ago. Islam makes a liar of Yeshua and since Islam is the brain child of Muhammad, there are no prophets in the religion before him.

St Paul: Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.

Yeshua: I have not come except for the lost sheep of Israel.

Yeshua>Paul

I believe Yeshua and not a self-appointed apostle, who has never met Jesus and gives contradictory verses of his vision.

If you are going to quote me, or short quote me, do so properly so that people can view my post in the context it was written.

It is interesting to note the use of the word "We" and "Us". Now who would "they" be?

But I want you to go away. Stop being a pest.

What?

Go Away
 

IMJerusha

New member
The Black Stone has nothing to do with the Kaabah and it needn't be placed near it. Do you know what's inside the Kaabah? Basically nothing! The Kaabah was originally multicoloured and different in structure. It needn't matter. We face it as a direction just like Muslims used to face Jerusalem before. You just don't get it.


Nothing to do with the Kaaba, huh? It's only built into the corner of it and surrounded with silver and Muslims have only ever faced Mecca, never Jerusalem because the Jews rejected him as a prophet of the One True God as did the early Christians. Why would I want to "get" falsehood? Muhammad had a giant ego and changed his religion like a woman changes her mind, makeup or purse.

Allah is the God of Abraham. The pagans hijacked Abraham's teachings and introduced pagan concepts of intercessors and daughters to Allah. Islam came to eradicate these false beliefs.

The crescent symbol has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with the Ottomans.

IMJerusha you know nothing. I won't bother replying to you. May God of Israel guide you to the truth. May you realise the true teachings of Jesus

The One True God of Israel has already led me to the Truth in Yeshua. He made no mention and gave no prophecy of a Muhammad or any further great prophet, nor did Yeshua. Yeshua is enough in the eyes of the One True God. The God of Abraham is the One True God of Israel, not that paganistic kluge of Muhammad's mind called Islam created about 600 years after Yeshua. What I know is that pagan religions are not for the eyes and ears of the believers of the One True God of Israel. I really wish you'd go peddle it somewhere else!

There is no God but the One True God of Israel and Yeshua is His Son through Whom all may approach the Throne of Grace.
 

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Nothing to do with the Kaaba, huh? It's only built into the corner of it and surrounded with silver and Muslims have only ever faced Mecca, never Jerusalem. Why would I want to "get" falsehood?



The One True God of Israel has already led me to the Truth in Yeshua. He made no mention and gave no prophecy of a Muhammad or any further great prophet, nor did Yeshua. Yeshua is enough in the eyes of the One True God. The God of Abraham is the One True God of Israel, not that paganistic kluge of Muhammad's mind called Islam created about 600 years after Yeshua. What I know is that pagan religions are not for the eyes and ears of the believers of the One True God of Israel. I really wish you'd go peddle it somewhere else!

There is no God but the One True God of Israel and Yeshua is His Son through Whom all may approach the Throne of Grace.

Muslims initially faced Jerusalem before God allowed Mecca to be used as the marker. Believe it or not - that's a fact.

The Paraclete promised is Muhammad, upon whom be peace .
 

IMJerusha

New member
St Paul: Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.

Yeshua: I have not come except for the lost sheep of Israel.

Yeshua>Paul

I believe Yeshua and not a self-appointed apostle, who has never met Jesus and gives contradictory verses of his vision.

Of course Yeshua was greater than Paul. He is the Son of God, the Messiah by Whom all may be saved. Paul was chosen by Yeshua and this was confirmed through Peter and Ananias; two witnesses confirmed Paul's calling and ministry. And again, you ignore the prophet Isaiah. "See, my servant will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. Just as there were many who were appalled at him—his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any human being and his form marred beyond human likeness—so he will sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand." Isaiah 52:13-15 "Let no foreigner who is bound to the Lord say, 'The Lord will surely exclude me from his people.' And let no eunuch complain, 'I am only a dry tree.' For this is what the Lord says: 'To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant—to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will endure forever. And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord to minister to him, to love the name of the Lord, and to be his servants, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant—these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.' The Sovereign Lord declares—he who gathers the exiles of Israel: 'I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered.' " Isaiah 56:3-8

But I want you to go away. Stop being a pest.

Oh, you don't know what a pest the One True God of Israel can make of Himself through His servants! You have a choice, infidel, you can put away the gods of your forefathers and follow the One True God of Israel or you can continue in your falsehood and die in your unbelief.

"This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live." Deuteronomy 30:19
"Now, therefore, fear the LORD and serve Him in sincerity and truth; and put away the gods which your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the LORD. If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:14-15
 

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Foreigners were welcomed into monotheism. But tell me where the Prophets to Hindustan and to Southern Africa? Did God forget them?
 

IMJerusha

New member
Muslims initially faced Jerusalem before God allowed Mecca to be used as the marker. Believe it or not - that's a fact.

The Paraclete promised is Muhammad, upon whom be peace .

It is a fact that Muhammad was rebuffed by Jews and Christians alike and he changed his mind in regard to the direction believers in his religion should pray. It had nothing to do with the decision of the One True God of Israel.
 
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