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Or Reformation. No longer did you have to commit to the Church, you could just be a "cowboy" Christian and do it your way, like Frank Sinatra (what a set of pipes). If you've made a commitment to the Church, then you're stuck, like you're stuck in a marriage. But in Christ you don't have to...

I think it's just talking about the Reformation. This is when all the millennial interpretation energy began in earnest, never really before the Reformation did anybody get too excited about whatever it meant, and then since the Reformation there's been a lot more interest in the topic. So I...

I mean it's rhetoric, right? Clearly. As clearly as you all Evangelicals read the words of consecration as metaphor, this is rhetoric. It's a genre of Scripture, like poetry and narrative and laws and proverbs. It's rhetoric. Hyperbole is a rhetorical device, for example. c. "If you do the...

We don't if we don't promise. That, I agree with. If we do promise, then we made a promise, and we should keep it. Like a marriage vow. Very much like a marriage vow.

We would say His soul IS His divinity. He is not partite in His essence. Surely He like us is one simple, indivisible essence. (Which is why we're not Nestorians, we can just simply say Mary is His mom simpliciter.) Yes. $$ Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple...

Largely true.

I already know you're not a Clavinist, neither am I. Total Depravity plus Unconditional Election means Reprobation, it's 2+2=4, but you'll still find some Clavinists who resist the necessary entailment of their theology. Nobody is denying this. The key word is "meant", it means that there's...

So like I said, I'm Augustian in as much as Augustine was Roman Catholic (which he was), and Clavinism is cafeteria Augustianism, because Clavinists just take what they like from Augustine and leave all the rest. They mainly like his polemics against Pelagius, and pay no mind to his belief in...

I wasn't ... but you know, if you have to believe that, that's fine. :carryon:

There's nothing to forgive. You're not objectively seeking the truth, you're stopping short. You're getting to a Here and No Further point, and you're stopping. I'm being charitable, this isn't an insult or meant to be offensive, it's an observation.

Every word of the Scripture is the literal word of God and all the words together is the Word of God, capital W. Everything in the Bible is taken to be what's I think commonly called foundational in the literature, meaning basically it's taken as evident and fundamental, a priori knowledge...

He wasn't just going through the motions, God saw that. And so do we see that, because God put it in the Bible. We all saw Abraham wasn't just going through the motions. That means something. That is important. With the Trinity that gets counter intuitive. It's not like Christ could not...

And all I have to say is, Who is your bishop? Clete.

I believe in Sola Scriptura, which is why I'm a vanilla Roman Catholic simpliciter, to put it bluntly, and I think all the rest of you are wrong, just as simply put. I'm not here because I have to be. I love it. It's at least a favorite hobby of mine, like some folks love to ski so much their...

I'm Augustian in as much as Augustine was Roman Catholic, yes. Clavinism is cafeteria Augustianism. Clavinists just take what they like from Augustine and leave the rest.

No I wasn't. Stop it.

Just checking.

We just don't understand eternality. Like somehow the Lamb is sacrificed from the foundation of the World, and if you're going to argue that no, only our names are written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the World, I still think you have the same problem of not understanding eternality.

I agree. I was a straight-laced Westminster canonical Clavinist for years, and this is what I believed. It didn't really matter that God merely passed over the Reprobate, instead of like, forcing them to choose Hell. Given Total Depravity, everybody was going to choose Hell unless God...

And I would say that you both are kind of thinking like a Clavinist, because you're both kind of assuming that not one in ten thousand are going to Hell rn. It could be that very very many are going to Heaven when they go softly into the night rn. Not universalism. But like, almost...