Jesus is God

[God's Truth]

It goes without saying you haven't see the scriptures calling the angels “Gods” and or “Elohim” since if you had you would not have said what you said before. (Psalm 8:5) You made him a little lower than godlike ones, And you crowned him with glory and splendor.

The word 'elohim' is not in any translation I've seen; AND, some translations interpret 'elohim' always as God, even in those scriptures you gave.

Because when it states that they live in us you take it to mean they literally live in us whereas I do not read it with such a caveman understanding,

You go against God who plainly says he will live in us.

Then you mock God and call it caveman understanding to believe that.

It is obvious you don't understand what is spiritual and you are dead in the spirit.

God, Jesus or his spirit do not literally live inside our bodies, such an idea is ludicrous. Jesus, God or his spirit is in us the sense of being with us. Paul often and used such language, you ignore this and read the bible too literally.

(Colossians 2:5) Though I am absent in body, I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.
(1 Corinthians 5:3) Although absent in body, I am present in spirit.

Paul was not literally with anyone, he was with them in a figurative sense, likewise, Jesus and the Father are with and in us in a figurative sense.

Humans can't give their spirit to live in people, but God can and does.

 

[God's Truth]

Thanks for reshowing it as I asked. Now, notice your point "what does sovereign in the Bible mean?Sovereignty of God is the Christian teaching that God is the supreme authority and all things are under His control. ... Easton's Bible Dictionary defines God's Sovereignty as His "absolute right to do all things according to his own good pleasure", you evidence is that Jesus is sovereign because he is above all, first of all you do not provide a scripture that states Jesus is sovereign,

I gave you scripture too.

Secondly, your point that Jesus is sovereign has already been rebutted by me, you ingorned my reasoning and ran from it, here it is again: You showed Ephesians in an attempt to show that Jesus is the sovereign rulers according to the Eastons Bibles definition of sovereign, notice how the bible disagrees with you friend "For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him." (1 Corinthians 15:27). It was the Father who subjected all things to Jesus, this though did not include the Father who is the ONLY person described as sovereign and remains as sovereign and above Jesus according to 1 Cor 15:27, your reasoning again is not consistent with scripture. If Jesus is above then why does it states "Next, the end, when he [Jesus] hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king untilGod has put all enemies under his feet..". Jesus hands everything back to his God and Father and rules as king "until God has put all enemies under his feet". Jesus is clearly NOT the sovereign, the Father is.

The scriptures plainly say that Jesus is reigning now AND UNTIL.

When Jesus puts death and Hades and all not saved in the Lake of Fire, and when the New Earth is here and the New Jerusalem---that is when he hands the kingdom over to the Father.

We do not need Jesus to keep interceding for us because the devil will be gone.

Jesus is God the Father with a body who came to die for us and intercede for us because Jesus knows what it is like to live here and die.


Jesus is God the Father and that is about what God did for us.
God the Father came as a man so that he could be a great Interceder for us.

After Satan and death and Hades are gone, we don't need an Interceder, we will be like Jesus on the new earth.

Jesus hands the Kingdom to the Father is about not needing an Interceder anymore.

Jesus’ kingdom will never end, because He is the Father.


Revelation 11:15
Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever."

Luke 1: 33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

So again, how is Jesus sovereign when the Father is the one who gave him all things and is still above him, with Jesus even handing things back to the Father? Your definition of Jesus as sovereign is not consistent with what the bible teaches, you're going to have to further explain your position.

The Bible doesn’t say what you say. The Bible says Jesus is not above God the Father. How do you get that means they are not the same? It proves they are the same.

And do you not recall me showing you how the apostle Peter knew the heart and lies of Ananias and his wife (see Acts 5:1,4,5), does this prove that Peter was God? No, then Jesus knowing the heart of people does not necessarily prove he is God either.

It doesn’t say Peter knew his heart. You can’t just make up things. You need to be more careful.

No scripture states ONLY God can read hearts but as you phArasrshed the Father "alone know the hearts of all the sons of men",

I didn’t paraphrase anything.

There have been many Kings of Israel, Jesus being King of Israel does not prove he is the almighty anymore than it proves any of the previous Kings of Israel were almighty God, your logic is so flawed, and again, the title King of kings is not a title only reserved for the almighty, it is simply an expression given to a king who is a king over other lesser kings, this is literally what king of kings means, stop repeating the same stuff as you have been post after post, repeating it does not make it any more logical or truthful.

The scripture PLAINLY says that Jesus is the King over all the kings OF THE EARTH.
You just keep repeating your same untruthful arguments.

 

[God's Truth]

(Jeremiah 23:24) “Can any man hide in a concealed place where I cannot see him?” declares Jehovah. “Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?” declares Jehovah.

The bible using anthropomorphic language of God "filling the earth" in relation to him seeing everything and you claiming "God is the city" is extreme, this is also coming from the person who refuses to admit Satan is the first adversary of God and also the last adversary of God as its 'nowhere specifically stated in the bible", yet you feel comfortable enough claiming "God is the city" despite it nowhere saying he is.

I speak of things the Bible says, you speak of things the Bible doesn't say.

If "God is the city" as he "fills the heaven and earth" then one could claim God is many things, God is a rock, God is water, God is air, God is dead leaf, God is a painting that hangs on a wall, you see the issue? If YOU can claim "God is the city" simply because he "fills the heaven and earth" then God is anything and everything, this is cleary no scriptual and not what the scriptures were expressing.

The city is the bride of Christ, and Christ and the bride are one body. The city is the body of God.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 

[God's Truth]

Again you forget, ancient Hebrew and Greek did not make use of capitalization as we do in English, there was no difference, the original texts simply say "KING OF KINGS" in all uppercase no matter who is given the title, be it man or God, again you embarrass yourself.

You are the one who made a capital where it shouldn't have been.

 

[God's Truth]

7djengo7 said SPEAK English. That shows just how well you pay attention.... not at all.

Dogs don't speak English but they can understand English. He made an ignorant comment and I replied with truth, and you call that not paying attention. It means who doesn't pay attention? What do you want me to say to him, something just as mean and dumb? It's dumb talk by a rude bully and my answer to him was kind and truthful.

 

[Right Divider]

Dogs don't speak English but they can understand English.

That was his point... that you didn't get....

It wasn't dumb or rude. It was a perfectly good example.

 

[God's Truth]

That was his point... that you didn't get....

It wasn't dumb or rude. It was a perfectly good example.

God bless you.

 

[Lon]

Because when it states that they live in us you take it to mean they literally live in us whereas I do not read it with such a caveman understanding, God, Jesus or his spirit do not literally live inside our bodies, such an idea is ludicrous. Jesus, God or his spirit is in us the sense of being with us. Paul often and used such language, you ignore this and read the bible too literally.

(Colossians 2:5) Though I am absent in body, I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.
(1 Corinthians 5:3) Although absent in body, I am present in spirit.

Paul was not literally with anyone, he was with them in a figurative sense, likewise, Jesus and the Father are with and in us in a figurative sense.

??? You are equating spirit/Spirit as if it is a physical entity. Of course God literally indwells a believer. If not, you are not a spiritual being, just an unregenerate carnal hunk of flesh living a flesh life without knowing or recognizing God made us "in His image." You'd be missing the whole point of Jesus' death burial and resurrection as well as God's plan for your redemption. If that is the case, "You MUST be born again." John 3:5-15 John 4:24 John 15:5 The Lord Jesus Christ was trying to tell us something and you must get this right. Ask for eyes that see and ear that hears. You MUST get this right or its all wrong and you are only grasping things from this physical existence. The death of man was spirit.

 

[7djengo7]

I discuss the Bible and not stupidity.

LOL

 

[7djengo7]

Wisdom is depicted as a separate entity, a Wise Woman who was with YHWH when He created the earth.
Proverbs 8:1–5 (KJV): 1 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice? 2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths. 3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors. 4 Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man. 5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.
Proverbs 8:15–18 (KJV): 15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. 16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth. 17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. 18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
Proverbs 8:22–31 (KJV): 22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

So,

"Doth not [a separate entity] cry?"
"[a separate entity] standeth in the top of high places"
"[a separate entity] crieth at the gates"
"Unto you, O men, [a separate entity] call"
"[a separate entity's] voice is to the sons of man"
"O ye simple, understand [a separate entity]"
"By [a separate entity] kings reign"
"[a separate entity] love them that love [a separate entity]"
"those that seek [a separate entity] early shall find [a separate entity]"
"Riches and honour are with [a separate entity]; yea, durable riches and righteousness"
"The LORD possessed [a separate entity] in the beginning of his way, before his works of old"
"[a separate entity] was set up from everlasting"
"[a separate entity] was daily His delight"

Also,

"The LORD by [a separate entity] hath founded the earth" (Proverbs 3:19)

Of course, TrevorL has so far failed to answer the questions I asked him:

• What (if anything) do you mean by "separate"?
• What (if anything) do you mean by "entity"?

Failing to answer these, as well as all the other questions I've asked him, TrevorL, in his frustration, turned up his self-righteous nose at me, and said:

Greetings again 7djengo7, The wise will understand. Time to have a rest from your “discussion”.

Kind regards
Trevor

Now, obviously, TrevorL is professing himself to be wise and understanding, while he is denying those to be wise and understanding, who ask him questions which necessarily embarrass him in his promulgation of his anti-Christ heresy. It makes me wonder, though: Does TrevorL consider YHWH to be wise? After all, he denies YHWH to be wisdom. But, if TrevorL is willing to admit the Bible truth that YHWH is wise, he has cornered himself into saying that it must be owing to some "separate entity" (that TrevorL calls "wisdom") that YHWH is wise; in other words, it seems TrevorL has cornered himself into saying that YHWH owes YHWH's being wise to something that is not YHWH.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again 7djengo7,

Now, obviously, TrevorL is professing himself to be wise and understanding, while he is denying those to be wise and understanding, who ask him questions which necessarily embarrass him in his promulgation of his anti-Christ heresy.

I do not claim to be very wise, and possibly a wise man would let your post slide. Be careful, you seem to be suggesting that wisdom is a quality and a measurable quantity. It appears that must have run out of contestants to answer ALL of your contradictory and obscure questions, and you needed to start again on our “discussion”.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Aimiel]

Just as God is Truth, Mercy, Love and Just, He is also: Wisdom. Reading Scripture reveals such to those who are open-minded to His Truth.

 

[NWL]

I can't make you see if you keep fighting the truth.

You are playing games because you know that I gave you scripture where GOD SAYS He will not give His glory to another, and since Jesus has God's glory, then it makes Jesus God.

God says He will not give His glory to another is about not praising and worshiping another as God. The Father definitely does that with Jesus.


Reread what I just said. You are going in circles. Break your cycle by going back to what I just said until it sinks in.


Keep rereading what I said in this post.

What you are failing to see is that you've made two statements that contradict each other, in your writings to me you've said regarding followers of Christ "We can only have glory through Jesus", which suggest that people can have glory, YET on the other hand you also say God "will not give glory to another". ALL I'M ASKING is which of these statements are correct, CAN others have God's glory as you claim or can does God NOT share his glory as you claim, both statements cannot be true as they contradict each other.

On page 472 post #7066 you stated"He will not give glory to another" in relation to God.
On page 472 post #7068 you stated "We can only have glory through Jesus" in relation to followers of Christ.

I understand you keep saying "GOD SAYS He will not give His glory to another" this is why I've been asking over and over "If you disagree that's others share Gods glory then explain your statement "We can only have glory through Jesus", Jesus is stated as giving his followers Gods glory, how is this possible if God does not share God's glory?" I FULLY understand and read everything you say, hence the reason why I've noticed that you've contradicted yourself, YOU made this contradiction when I showed you John 17:22 that states Jesus gave his followers the glory that God gave to him, "I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one" (John 17:22).

So deal with your contradiction and stop acting like I'm ignoring your answers, you have nowhere acknowledged your contradiction, do followers of Christ have Gods glory as you and John 17:22 states or does God NEVER share his glory with anyone as you say, which one is it?

 

[NWL]

The word 'elohim' is not in any translation I've seen; AND, some translations interpret 'elohim' always as God, even in those scriptures you gave.

Elohim wouldn't be in a translation as the word "elohim" is the original Hebrew, we translate from the original into whatever language of desire. Most if not all the original text has the word "elohim" (me-elohim) in Psalms 8:5 so I do not know what references you're reading from, pull up any transliteration and you will find the word there. And yes, of course some bible would translate the word God there, as that is exactly what the word means, hence my point! Elohim is used in reference to angels, angels in Pslams 8:5 are called Gods/gods. Some bibles are more literal than others, whilst others try and convey the meaning over the literal word for word translation. The bibles that don't do a word for word translation but try and express the meaning tend to translate Pslams 8:5 as directly referring to angels despite the word angels NEVER appearing in Psalms 8:5, the translators ONLY decides to do this so others can understand that the one being spoken about isn't God but rather angels, some translations say heavenly beings in Ps 8:5, others "angels" and others "godlike ones".

Another example: "God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods (Elohim) he judges" (Psalm 82:1)

Again, titles of God (elohim) are not always reserved for God, others can be called by the same titles without it implying they are God himself, the same applies to most but a few titles of God, such as "the one God", the "almighty", the "sovereign" etc etc.

You go against God who plainly says he will live in us.

Then you mock God and call it caveman understanding to believe that.

It is obvious you don't understand what is spiritual and you are dead in the spirit.

I do not go against it, I simply interpret it differently to you, me understanding God being and living in us relates to him figuratively being with us, is hardly going against what is written.

Humans can't give their spirit to live in people, but God can and does.

Paul disagrees with you:

(Colossians 2:5) Though I am absent in body, I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.
(1 Corinthians 5:3) Although absent in body, I am present in spirit.

You cannot deny that my understanding is a viable understanding, I cannot and do not deny the idea of God literally living in us is a possible truth according to the text, its simply an unreasonable one, sd it would also mean God lives in many things that are un-holy. Bear in mind that God did not even permit to keep the sandals on his feet due to his holiness, yet you believe God literally live in people who are unclean by nature, it's very unrealistic and contrary to basic bible teaching of the holiness of God.

 

[NWL]

The scriptures plainly say that Jesus is reigning now AND UNTIL.

When Jesus puts death and Hades and all not saved in the Lake of Fire, and when the New Earth is here and the New Jerusalem---that is when he hands the kingdom over to the Father.

We do not need Jesus to keep interceding for us because the devil will be gone.

Jesus is God the Father with a body who came to die for us and intercede for us because Jesus knows what it is like to live here and die.


Jesus is God the Father and that is about what God did for us.
God the Father came as a man so that he could be a great Interceder for us.

After Satan and death and Hades are gone, we don't need an Interceder, we will be like Jesus on the new earth.

Jesus hands the Kingdom to the Father is about not needing an Interceder anymore.

Jesus’ kingdom will never end, because He is the Father.

This is all pointless, remember, you tried to prove Jesus was sovereign by using a verse that states Jesus was "appointed above all things", yet scripture makes it clear the Father was the one who appointed Jesus and the Father himself was not included to the one he subjected all things to. You therefore cannot claim Jesus is "sovereign" according to the text if the text cleary has the Father above him, the Father is sovereign.

So my question that I posed you asking for you to prove where Jesus is called sovereign is still unanswered by you as you have nowhere demonstrated Jesus is ever called sovereign or above the one, namely the Father, who had the power to subject all things to him as it cleary mentions the Father as still being over him.

The Bible doesn’t say what you say. The Bible says Jesus is not above God the Father. How do you get that means they are not the same? It proves they are the same.

How do I get that means they are not the same you ask, because of the basic language and context used in the text, a 10-year-old reading the verse would never come to the conclusion that Jesus is the Father when reading:

"[Jesus] hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father"
"[Jesus] must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet"
"God “subjected all things under [Jesus] feet"
"the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him"

The language and context in all of the above plainly express Jesus is a separate person from the Father, you pick a few verses which you believe show Jesus is the same person as the Father and use them to interpret all the places where they are clearly spoken to and even seen as separate instead of using all the places where they are clearly spoken to and even seen as separate to interpret the few verses that you believe show Jesus is the Father, it's insane.

How can Jesus hand of the kingdom to the Father is he is the father? Why does it state God puts all enemies under Jesus feet if Jesus is the God who puts all enemies under his feat, how can God subject all things to Jesus if Jesus already has all things subjected to him by being able to subject all things to himself?? How can Jesus subject himself to himself? It makes zero sense, Jesus and the Father are clearly different persons by the context in the verse.

It doesn’t say Peter knew his heart. You can’t just make up things. You need to be more careful.

(Acts 5:1-5) However, a man named An·a·niʹas, together with his wife Sap·phiʹra, sold some property. 2 But he secretly held back some of the price, with his wife’s knowledge, and he brought just a part of it and deposited it at the feet of the apostles. 3 But Peter said: “An·a·niʹas, why has Satan emboldened you to lie to the holy spirit and secretly hold back some of the price of the field? 4 As long as it remained with you, did it not remain yours? And after it was sold, was it not in your control? Why have you thought up such a deed as this in your heart? You have lied, not to men, but to God.” 5 On hearing these words, An·a·niʹas collapsed and died. And great fear came over all those who heard about it.

How did Peter know Ananias was lying and thought such a deed in his own heart unless he was able to read his heart? Its called the power of deduction my friend, Ananias lied to Peter and Peter, empowered with Holy spirit , knew that it was a lie by reading his heart, we the see the same thing with Jesus.

The scripture PLAINLY says that Jesus is the King over all the kings OF THE EARTH.
You just keep repeating your same untruthful arguments.

It doesn't matter, it still demonstrates titles are not unique to individuals even God, the context determines the limit of who the titles pertain to.

 

[NWL]

You are the one who made a capital where it shouldn't have been.

I'm writing in English my friend, at times I might make typos as all people do, what is pointless however is trying to formulate an argument based on capital or uncapitalized letters in English when the original Greek and Hebrew had no such distinction. You have done this a few times now despite me making you aware of this basic fact.

 

[NWL]

I speak of things the Bible says, you speak of things the Bible doesn't say.


The city is the bride of Christ, and Christ and the bride are one body. The city is the body of God.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

So far you've said, God is the city, the city is a woman, the city is a bride, Jesus and the city are one, and the city is the body of God. Yet you also believe Jesus is the one God mentioned which means you believe Jesus is his own bride since he is both the city and the city itself as the bride of Christ, you must also have to admit that Jesus/God is a woman as the city who is God is described as a woman.

You still haven't explained how the city came out of heaven "from God", indicating a separation if the city is God.

 

[Trump Gurl]

The historic Christian Church has always believed and taught the full divinity and full humanity of Jesus Christ (see this).

Correct.

 

[God's Truth]

What you are failing to see is that you've made two statements that contradict each other, in your writings to me you've said regarding followers of Christ "We can only have glory through Jesus", which suggest that people can have glory, YET on the other hand you also say God "will not give glory to another". ALL I'M ASKING is which of these statements are correct, CAN others have God's glory as you claim or can does God NOT share his glory as you claim, both statements cannot be true as they contradict each other.

As I have tried to explain to you many times, God isn't going to give His glory to another. If we are put in God's glory by Jesus, we still aren't going to be worshiped as God, but Jesus is.

I understand you keep saying "[/I]GOD SAYS He will not give His glory to another"

God says that.

this is why I've been asking over and over "If you disagree that's others share Gods glory then explain your statement "We can only have glory through Jesus", Jesus is stated as giving his followers Gods glory, how is this possible if God does not share God's glory?" I FULLY understand and read everything you say, hence the reason why I've noticed that you've contradicted yourself, YOU made this contradiction when I showed you John 17:22 that states Jesus gave his followers the glory that God gave to him, "I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one" (John 17:22).

So deal with your contradiction and stop acting like I'm ignoring your answers, you have nowhere acknowledged your contradiction, do followers of Christ have Gods glory as you and John 17:22 states or does God NEVER share his glory with anyone as you say, which one is it?

No one but Jesus is worshiped. You are not to be worshiped.

 

[God's Truth]

Elohim wouldn't be in a translation as the word "elohim" is the original Hebrew, we translate from the original into whatever language of desire. Most if not all the original text has the word "elohim" (me-elohim) in Psalms 8:5 so I do not know what references you're reading from, pull up any transliteration and you will find the word there. And yes, of course some bible would translate the word God there, as that is exactly what the word means, hence my point!

No that is not what it means. It doesn’t mean angels are gods and it doesn’t mean elohim means angel gods.

Another example: "God takes his place in the divine assembly; In the middle of the gods (Elohim) he judges" (Psalm 82:1)

Again, titles of God (elohim) are not always reserved for God, others can be called by the same titles without it implying they are God himself, the same applies to most but a few titles of God, such as "the one God", the "almighty", the "sovereign" etc etc.

Again, some translations say 'God' as 'God' only.