Honest struggles on God’s omniscience.

[way 2 go]

You are a stupid waste of time.

Good bye!

#20
The relevant question is:

At the moment when God already infallibly believed that they would not repent, could they instead repent while that actual belief remained a fact of the past?

If yes, God’s belief could be false.

If no, repentance was not genuinely possible in the actual history.

we have an example in the bible , yes here it is again
(Revelation of John 16:11) and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they repented not of their works.

let the open theist pretend its settled future for a minute
so my answer is , no and they're are free
open theist answer , yes and they're are free

the only thing that is necessary is God's belief

we are both going to do things today and we both believe we do them freely
the only thing that is necessary is God's belief
I believe God knows what I am about to do , open theist believe the opposite
and it makes no difference

 

[way 2 go]

The movie The Game with Sean Penn and Michael Douglas depicts a scenario where prediction is very advanced.

reminded me of the Truman show , only in reverse , paranoid ,who is in on it .
was he free to choose ?

 

[way 2 go]

At this point (actually its probably been for a long time) your engaging with this idiot is only serving to grant him legitimacy that he hasn't ever deserved but might have been afforded because of some doubt that existed as to whether he was coming from a place of honest error. He is not. His error is not one of the intellect but of the heart. He does not want to believe in a God of righteousness (i.e. actual righteousness, justice and love). He doesn't even know what those words mean when applied to God. He couldn't tell you if his life depended on it (and it does). Worse than that, he doesn't want to know and angrily rejects anything anyone says in any effort to communicate it to him.

He's interested in his religion, not the truth. Your debating him gives him grounds to believe that they are the same thing.

confession through projection ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[way 2 go]

If only @way 2 go believed the Bible as written.

word of faith theology “You are gods” Psalm 82:6 / John 10:34

John 10:34-35 [34] Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? [35] If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),

 

[Right Divider]

word of faith theology “You are gods” Psalm 82:6 / John 10:34

John 10:34-35 [34] Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? [35] If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),

You're almost like a cult member, the way you quote random verses out of context.

Psa 82:6 (KJV) I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 (KJV) But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Read the whole thing instead of just a tiny fragment.

 

[way 2 go]

God can accurately predict particular events because:

1. He knows what He Himself intends to accomplish.
2. He can arrange circumstances and intervene to secure an outcome.
3. He understands people and institutions well enough to predict their behavior with extraordinary accuracy.

The crucifixion was something God intended to accomplish, not an event He passively watched approaching.

Even if every detail you listed was infallibly guaranteed, that would establish God’s knowledge, intention, or control concerning those particular events.

It would not establish exhaustive infallible foreknowledge of every future free choice made by everyone.

Your inference is:

- God accurately predicted and guaranteed particular events.
- Therefore, God infallibly knows every future free choice.

That conclusion does not follow.

it does follow
highly detailed foreknowledge of the crucifixion and what everybody else would do proves God can know
Daniel & Revelation says he knows the beginning the middle and the end .Isaiah 46:10

open theism arbitrarily says God is incapable of exhaustive foreknowledge ,
what is God's limitation ,what restrains God ?

 

[Nick M]

Read the whole thing instead of just a tiny fragment.

He can't. It will invalidate his point. He is not acting in good faith. It is obvious.

 

[way 2 go]

You're almost like a cult member, the way you quote random verses out of context.

Psa 82:6 (KJV) I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 (KJV) But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Read the whole thing instead of just a tiny fragment.

I know and you know but the word of faith people hold onto this verse like a fat kid loves candy

John 10:34-35 [34] Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? [35] If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),

when an open theist holds that God did not know where Adam & Eve were because God said "where are you"
its the same thing as word of faith people

 

[way 2 go]

He can't. It will invalidate his point. He is not acting in good faith. It is obvious.

open theism holds onto the literal when they shouldn't

 

[way 2 go]

the preist freely offering judas 30 pieces of silver
judas freely choosing to betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver
judas freely choosing to give the silver back
priests used the money to buy the potter's field

but open theism ? God maybe has some foreknowledge ... but he can't have exhaustive foreknowledge

 

[Derf]

the preist freely offering judas 30 pieces of silver
judas freely choosing to betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver
judas freely choosing to give the silver back
priests used the money to buy the potter's field

but open theism ? God maybe has some foreknowledge ... but he can't have exhaustive foreknowledge

Exhaustive foreknowledge requires that God never changes His prediction. When God said Hezekiah would die of his illness, then said He would add 15 years to his life, which result was the true foreknowledge God had from the foundation of the world? Does God have exhaustive foreknowledge about what He Himself will do (take Hezekiah's life early or let him live 15 more years)? You can give evidence all day long for foreknowledge without proving exhaustive foreknowledge, but Hezekiah learned that God can change what He knows.

 

[Idolater]

reminded me of the Truman show , only in reverse , paranoid ,who is in on it .
was he free to choose ?

ofc he was free. There is never any question "Nicholas" is free the whole entire time, even though "Consumer Recreation Services" knew exactly where to place the inflatable airbag. This is why the movie's important: I don't remember if there is vulgarity or scandalous content, I only remember the premise and the basic plot: It's clear that it's plausible that God would know at least what the fictional "Consumer Recreation Services" knew about "Nicholas", about all of us. So God, just from that, would know with exceptional accuracy, predictions about what we'd do in the future, even while we retain fully our free will.

But then add in that God directs circumstances and situations, all the things beyond the control of free will agents like us. He knows us extremely well, better than we know ourselves, and, He also happens to have direct control over our circumstances. So therefore His predictions are going to be very good. And remember, our own predictions are already very good, so God's accuracy in predicting is much better than even we are at prediction, and we are very good at it. So how good is He?

Classical Theism needn't believe in exhaustive definite foreknowledge as some mystical superpower, to believe that God perfectly predicts the future, including human free will choices. Classical Theism need only believe in the basic premise of The Game, but irl.