Is The Physical Realm Analogous To A Simulated Reality?

[VladtheDestroyer]

In my experience most Christians and especially my fellow YECs, would agree with me that it is.

Assuming that is the case here on TOL, my next question would be:

What is the purpose of this simulation?

 

[ttruscott]

The purpose of this simulation is to return the lost sheep, HIS sinful elect, to HIM as heaven ready, able to start the heavenly marriage. Living with the reprobate who can never return helps to fulfill this purpose in HIS prodigal sons, Matt 13:27-30.

Choosing to be God minded and holy speeds up, hastens, the day this simulation ends:
2 Peter 3:11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to conduct yourselves in holiness and godliness 12 as you anticipate and hasten, (speed up) the coming of the day of God, when the heavens will be destroyed by fire and the elements will melt in the heat.

 

[Derf]

In my experience most Christians and especially my fellow YECs, would agree with me that it is.

Assuming that is the case here on TOL, my next question would be:

What is the purpose of this simulation?

Are you saying that WE are simulations, too? Do we actually interact with other real humans in the simulation, or am I the only real person in my simulation?

If the people are all real, and the physical realm is simulation, are the animals real or simulated? Are the Devil and his angels simulations?

If humans are the only real things, then the reason would have to be that God didn't want to waste real stuff on the human experiment. But Paul said when Christ returns, we shall be changed, and the dead will be made alive again. If it is simulation, it seems like even our bodies are simulation.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The theory that we live in a simulation is evidence for the universe being created by a higher Being.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

Are you saying that WE are simulations, too?

No! Absolutely not!

Do we actually interact with other real humans in the simulation

Yes!

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

The purpose of this simulation is to return the lost sheep,

But there were no lost sheep when God first created Adam or the initial state of the simulation.

 

[Derf]

But there were no lost sheep when God first created Adam or the initial state of the simulation.

Now you've done it. You'll have to wade through his pre-existent souls garbage.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

Now you've done it. You'll have to wade through his pre-existent souls garbage.

Oh man. Thanks for the warning.

But you just correctly pointed out a couple things I should clarify.

Yes we are all real. We are spiritual beings that for some reason, God decided to interact with us firstly via this simulated environment of the physical realm. That is what I mean in my OP.

 

[Derf]

Oh man. Thanks for the warning.

But you just correctly pointed out a couple things I should clarify.

Yes we are all real. We are spiritual beings that for some reason, God decided to interact with us firstly via this simulated environment of the physical realm. That is what I mean in my OP.

Then I think my suggestion is valid. The simulated realm would be used because the realm would need to be destroyed to conquer sin and death and the corruption that those would bring to the realm.

I'm not in agreement with your supposition, since that would suggest that we are "spiritual" beings that aren't intimately connected with our physical bodies. Such would eliminate the need for the resurrection of the dead.

 

[Idolater]

Isn't a simulated reality analogous to the real physical realm? I don't understand how it goes the other way though.

iow if a simulated reality is analogous to the real physical realm, how is the physical realm analogous to a simulated reality? It's circular and absurd to me.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

Then I think my suggestion is valid. The simulated realm would be used because the realm would need to be destroyed to conquer sin and death and the corruption that those would bring to the realm.

Yes but again, there was no sin and death at the beginning of Genesis. After Adam sinned and ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the initial parameters or "rules" of the simulation had to be changed.

But the purpose of this changed simulation surly was the same as the first.In other words, I think it must have been changed to maintain it's original purpose.

But what was that purpose?

I'm not in agreement with your supposition, since that would suggest that we are "spiritual" beings that aren't intimately connected with our physical bodies. Such would eliminate the need for the resurrection of the dead.

That's probably a good point. But it doesn't necessarily preclude this "world" from being a simulated reality..as spiritual beings, our natural state is not one that requires physical eyes to see. No?

 

[Derf]

Yes but again, there was no sin and death at the beginning of Genesis. After Adam sinned and ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, the initial parameters or "rules" of the simulation had to be changed.

But the purpose of this changed simulation surly was the same as the first.In other words, I think it must have been changed to maintain it's original purpose.



That's probably a good point. But it doesn't necessarily preclude this "world" from being a simulated reality..as spiritual beings, our natural state is not one that requires physical eyes to see. No?

Why would you equate us with God in that way? He's invisible, but we are made in His image. So whatever we are, it seems to be visible ("image") by nature. And no, our "natural state" is not invisible. Adam was visible from the time he was created, even though he wasn't alive yet.
Genesis 2:7 KJV — And the LORD God formed man ("Adam" in Hebrew) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man (Adam) became a living soul.

If the physical realm is a simulation, then we are made of that same stuff (dust of the ground). If the simulation ends, we end with it, since we are made of it. But if the stuff is real, then we can be lifted out of the one realm and placed in another (like Enoch). And if the stuff of the realm is destroyed, we can be saved, because it just requires some of the stuff to be moved out of the realm before the destruction.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

Why would you equate us with God in that way? He's invisible, but we are made in His image. So whatever we are, it seems to be visible ("image") by nature. And no, our "natural state" is not invisible. Adam was visible from the time he was created, even though he wasn't alive yet.
Genesis 2:7 KJV — And the LORD God formed man ("Adam" in Hebrew) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man (Adam) became a living soul.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm not sure I am following you here. What does being visible or invisible have to do with anything I said.

If the physical realm is a simulation, then we are made of that same stuff (dust of the ground). If the simulation ends, we end with it, since we are made of it. But if the stuff is real, then we can be lifted out of the one realm and placed in another (like Enoch). And if the stuff of the realm is destroyed, we can be saved, because it just requires some of the stuff to be moved out of the realm before the destruction.

But our spirit is not made of matter. Only our current, physical bodies are.

I would say our physical bodies and our brains are more or less the interface that our spirits are sorta forced to experience the physical realm through.

I'm assuming God didn't necessarily have to do it that way. That he could have created Adam just as a spirit, without tying his spirit to a physical body and a physical universe.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

Isn't a simulated reality analogous to the real physical realm? I don't understand how it goes the other way though.

iow if a simulated reality is analogous to the real physical realm, how is the physical realm analogous to a simulated reality? It's circular and absurd to me.

Well, which would you say is more real?

God

..or a jewelry box?

 

[Derf]

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm not sure I am following you here. What does being visible or invisible have to do with anything I said.

Here's what you said:

our natural state is not one that requires physical eyes to see.

If physical eyes aren't the kind that can see it, then it is as invisible as God. That's not how man is described. Man's nature is physical. That's why Jesus had to become a physical man, to save the human/physical race.

But our spirit is not made of matter. Only our current, physical bodies are.

But you are assuming, it seems, that we are something without our bodies. And if we are, the resurrection isn't really needed. And Jesus died in vain to save a people that could easily have continued without their bodies. We focus much on Jesus' death (certainly important), but His resurrection is the key to the gospel. Without it we have no hope.
1 Corinthians 15:17 KJV — And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

I would say our physical bodies and our brains are more or less the interface that our spirits are sorta forced to experience the physical realm through.

Why do you think people are resurrected when Christ returns? If freedom from the constraints of the physical body is good, why reintroduce such constraints?

I'm assuming God didn't necessarily have to do it that way. That he could have created Adam just as a spirit, without tying his spirit to a physical body and a physical universe.

Certainly God can make spiritual beings, like the angels. I don't know why physical was better, enough that Christ was willing to become one of us forever. But calling it a simulation seems to cheapen Christ's efforts on our behalf.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

If physical eyes aren't the kind that can see it, then it is as invisible as God. That's not how man is described. Man's nature is physical. That's why Jesus had to become a physical man, to save the human/physical race.

Ahh now I understand. I meant...in heaven we won't need physical eyes to see things. Will we?

Why do you think people are resurrected when Christ returns? If freedom from the constraints of the physical body is good, why reintroduce such constraints?

I don't know at the moment.

But you are assuming, it seems, that we are something without our bodies. And if we are, the resurrection isn't really needed. And Jesus died in vain to save a people that could easily have continued without their bodies. We focus much on Jesus' death (certainly important), but His resurrection is the key to the gospel. Without it we have no hope.
1 Corinthians 15:17 KJV — And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Certainly God can make spiritual beings, like the angels. I don't know why physical was better, enough that Christ was willing to become one of us forever. But calling it a simulation seems to cheapen Christ's efforts on our behalf.

But Paul also wrote that we are already dead. That we have died and our lives are hidden with Christ. But we are still here, talking and walking around! Would you say that cheapens the fact that Christ died for us? Of course not. Likewise when a baby dies, that baby is heaven with the Lord. But that doesn't lessen the price the Lord paid for us.

3 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

What I think is, Colossians 3:3-3 isn't just a metaphor or a figure of speech. I think Paul is making a statement of reality. That when we accept Christ, at least some part of us actually dies and is with the Lord, who is seated at the right hand of God. It is no longer attached to the physical realm. So I see a strong indication of this physical realm being a simulated or "lesser" reality of sorts, in these above verses.

 

[Idolater]

Well, which would you say is more real?

God

..or a jewelry box?

Real is to me binary, it's either fully, 100%, infinitely real, or it's the opposite, completely fake and made up and imaginary. There is no in between, so God is real, and the physical realm is real, both are equally real. When we talk about the metaphysics of the physical realm and God, then things get more complicated, with God being being itself, and the physical realm being made by God, but taken simply God and the physical realm are both equally real.

So what do you mean?

 

[Idolater]

Ahh now I understand. I meant...in heaven we won't need physical eyes to see things. Will we?



I don't know at the moment.



But Paul also wrote that we are already dead. That we have died and our lives are hidden with Christ. But we are still here, talking and walking around! Would you say that cheapens the fact that Christ died for us? Of course not. Likewise when a baby dies, that baby is heaven with the Lord. But that doesn't lessen the price the Lord paid for us.

3 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

What I think is, Colossians 3:3-3 isn't just a metaphor or a figure of speech. I think Paul is making a statement of reality. That when we accept Christ, at least some part of us actually dies and is with the Lord, who is seated at the right hand of God. It is no longer attached to the physical realm. So I see a strong indication of this physical realm being a simulated or "lesser" reality of sorts, in these above verses.

What's interesting is that he seems to be saying our being dead is metaphorical and not metaphysical, since if it was metaphysical, there would be no need to write Colossians 3, since it seems to be holding our hands as we navigate being dead. Being dead doesn't seem to work that way in reality, it doesn't seem like the dead are concentrating very hard on being dead, it seems more like being dead in reality is metaphysical, and not metaphorical, but Colossians 3 seems to be written as if the death mentioned in verse 3 is metaphorical.