Responding to "The Problem of Evil"

[Bladerunner]

Why do you think Abraham was questioning the righteousness of man in that scripture? Here is the scripture again. Abraham is speaking to God:
[Gen 18:25 KJV] That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Here's the New Living Translation (gives the sense of the passage, though it might not always be as accurate) of the same:
[Gen 18:25 NLT] Surely you wouldn't do such a thing, destroying the righteous along with the wicked. Why, you would be treating the righteous and the wicked exactly the same! Surely you wouldn't do that! Should not the Judge of all the earth do what is right?"
After God told Abraham what he was going to do, Abraham pushed back by saying "Surely you wouldn't do that!" And his reasoning is that it is not "right" for God to do that. Abraham is questioning God's actions by saying they aren't "right". That's exactly what "questioning God's righteousness" would entail, if you or I were to do it. And Abraham did it. And it is recorded in the bible for us.

Let's go back to your original statement:

Abraham's eternal destination was not affected by questioning God's righteousness in that way. Rather, as far as we can tell, such questioning might have been very good for other people's eternal destination (Lot's, or his two daughter's), because it seems to have resulted in God saving them from destruction with the city.

a lot of haggling going on in this chapter.

Based on what?

your words:""He preordained every tragedy as part of some divine plan" is false."

 

[Idolater]

Why do you think Abraham was questioning the righteousness of man in that scripture? Here is the scripture again. Abraham is speaking to God:
[Gen 18:25 KJV] That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Here's the New Living Translation (gives the sense of the passage, though it might not always be as accurate) of the same:
[Gen 18:25 NLT] Surely you wouldn't do such a thing, destroying the righteous along with the wicked. Why, you would be treating the righteous and the wicked exactly the same! Surely you wouldn't do that! Should not the Judge of all the earth do what is right?"
After God told Abraham what he was going to do, Abraham pushed back by saying "Surely you wouldn't do that!" And his reasoning is that it is not "right" for God to do that. Abraham is questioning God's actions by saying they aren't "right". That's exactly what "questioning God's righteousness" would entail, if you or I were to do it. And Abraham did it. And it is recorded in the bible for us.

Yeah but it's ... it's obv, playing, like a cat playing with a mouse, which is in keeping with Isaac on the altar with the knife. The story of Abraham and God involves grand toying-with. It's the vibe of the literature, it's obv. To discern too much about the nature of God from these altercations is to gravely err in interpretation.

What you should be reading in these, is something not about God, but about Abraham. He did what God told him to do, even though it seemed retarded to him. Up until God told him, "Abraham, no. That indeed is retarded. I was testing you. To see what you would do."

Similarly when Abraham successfully lobbies God to not kill innocent people, even though there are a whole mess of rotten people in the midst of them, it's also a game being played, by God, with Abraham. It shows who Abraham is. He's a moral man, and an exceedingly polite and respectful one too. The conversational tone here is certainly the same as that of a skilled attorney arguing before the Supreme Court—his very career is on the line here, if he doesn't toe the line, and he's very careful to do it.

It is not as if God is inclined toward injustice, and requires Abraham to correct Him! You talk about BLASPHEMY, wow. That the thought could be countenanced. 'Glad nobody thinks that at TOL.

Let's go back to your original statement:

Abraham's eternal destination was not affected by questioning God's righteousness in that way. Rather, as far as we can tell, such questioning might have been very good for other people's eternal destination (Lot's, or his two daughter's), because it seems to have resulted in God saving them from destruction with the city.

Yeah or that was just God playing a game with Abraham, so that we would get a little more insight into who Abraham is, much more than that we learn more about God. God is not above playing games with us, especially it seems, if those games reveal and uncover for others, who you really are as a person, on the inside, where only God can see.

===

You just proved my point, It's because He doesn't preordain wickedness that He doesn't preordain every tragedy. If wickedness didn't exist, that wouldn't necessarily negate the potential benefit of tragedy in strengthening and molding God;s people. Look at Job, for instance. Tragedy wasn't due to his wickedness, and God, in a sense, preordained it when He gave permission to Satan,

In a very LITERAL sense, He gave permission. He set limits for Satan, but Belial was free to operate anywhere within those limits, and the Devil absolutely pushed the envelope in every direction, which is a great uncovering and revelation of who HE is. Beelzebub hates your guts, and will not relent in any way (Moloch is tireless in working evil), and he is completely restrained (in the sense of being limited) by God. Lucifer goes right up to the legal limit that he's given by God, the limit God permits, because the Ancient Serpent Deceiver just hates you so much. When he is permitted to go further, he does. There is no question.

We pray at Mass "Deliver us from evil," to our Father Who art in Heaven (hallowed be Thy name). We constantly petition Him to restrain Asmodeus, so that Baphomet will not harm us.

Deliver us from evil. It's actually, I think, "The Evil One." Deliver us from the Evil One. And we know who THAT is.

 

[Clete]

a lot of haggling going on in this chapter.

your words:""He preordained every tragedy as part of some divine plan" is false."

You're a stupid waste of time.

Good bye.

 

[Clete]

Feelings

That grants him more integrity than he deserves. He's a total waste of time.

 

[Right Divider]

That grants him more integrity than he deserves. He's a total waste of time.

Not so sure about that first sentence, but fully agree with the second.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Yeah but it's ... it's obv, playing, like a cat playing with a mouse, which is in keeping with Isaac on the altar with the knife. The story of Abraham and God involves grand toying-with. It's the vibe of the literature, it's obv. To discern too much about the nature of God from these altercations is to gravely err in interpretation.

What you should be reading in these, is something not about God, but about Abraham. He did what God told him to do, even though it seemed retarded to him. Up until God told him, "Abraham, no. That indeed is retarded. I was testing you. To see what you would do."

Similarly when Abraham successfully lobbies God to not kill innocent people, even though there are a whole mess of rotten people in the midst of them, it's also a game being played, by God, with Abraham. It shows who Abraham is. He's a moral man, and an exceedingly polite and respectful one too. The conversational tone here is certainly the same as that of a skilled attorney arguing before the Supreme Court—his very career is on the line here, if he doesn't toe the line, and he's very careful to do it.

It is not as if God is inclined toward injustice, and requires Abraham to correct Him! You talk about BLASPHEMY, wow. That the thought could be countenanced. 'Glad nobody thinks that at TOL.



Yeah or that was just God playing a game with Abraham, so that we would get a little more insight into who Abraham is, much more than that we learn more about God. God is not above playing games with us, especially it seems, if those games reveal and uncover for others, who you really are as a person, on the inside, where only God can see.

===


In a very LITERAL sense, He gave permission. He set limits for Satan, but Belial was free to operate anywhere within those limits, and the Devil absolutely pushed the envelope in every direction, which is a great uncovering and revelation of who HE is. Beelzebub hates your guts, and will not relent in any way (Moloch is tireless in working evil), and he is completely restrained (in the sense of being limited) by God. Lucifer goes right up to the legal limit that he's given by God, the limit God permits, because the Ancient Serpent Deceiver just hates you so much. When he is permitted to go further, he does. There is no question.

We pray at Mass "Deliver us from evil," to our Father Who art in Heaven (hallowed be Thy name). We constantly petition Him to restrain Asmodeus, so that Baphomet will not harm us.

Deliver us from evil. It's actually, I think, "The Evil One." Deliver us from the Evil One. And we know who THAT is.

No, God wasn't 'playing games' with Abraham.

God had heard reports of how evil Sodom and Gomorrah had become, and Abraham was on the way there. God asked Abraham for advice, and in response to Abraham's argumentation, lowered His standards for Abraham's sake.

 

[Derf]

Yeah but it's ... it's obv, playing, like a cat playing with a mouse, which is in keeping with Isaac on the altar with the knife. The story of Abraham and God involves grand toying-with. It's the vibe of the literature, it's obv. To discern too much about the nature of God from these altercations is to gravely err in interpretation.

What you should be reading in these, is something not about God, but about Abraham. He did what God told him to do, even though it seemed retarded to him. Up until God told him, "Abraham, no. That indeed is retarded. I was testing you. To see what you would do."

Similarly when Abraham successfully lobbies God to not kill innocent people, even though there are a whole mess of rotten people in the midst of them, it's also a game being played, by God, with Abraham. It shows who Abraham is. He's a moral man, and an exceedingly polite and respectful one too. The conversational tone here is certainly the same as that of a skilled attorney arguing before the Supreme Court—his very career is on the line here, if he doesn't toe the line, and he's very careful to do it.

It is not as if God is inclined toward injustice, and requires Abraham to correct Him! You talk about BLASPHEMY, wow. That the thought could be countenanced. 'Glad nobody thinks that at TOL.



Yeah or that was just God playing a game with Abraham, so that we would get a little more insight into who Abraham is, much more than that we learn more about God. God is not above playing games with us, especially it seems, if those games reveal and uncover for others, who you really are as a person, on the inside, where only God can see.

===


In a very LITERAL sense, He gave permission. He set limits for Satan, but Belial was free to operate anywhere within those limits, and the Devil absolutely pushed the envelope in every direction, which is a great uncovering and revelation of who HE is. Beelzebub hates your guts, and will not relent in any way (Moloch is tireless in working evil), and he is completely restrained (in the sense of being limited) by God. Lucifer goes right up to the legal limit that he's given by God, the limit God permits, because the Ancient Serpent Deceiver just hates you so much. When he is permitted to go further, he does. There is no question.

We pray at Mass "Deliver us from evil," to our Father Who art in Heaven (hallowed be Thy name). We constantly petition Him to restrain Asmodeus, so that Baphomet will not harm us.

Deliver us from evil. It's actually, I think, "The Evil One." Deliver us from the Evil One. And we know who THAT is.

None of that lessens the idea that Abraham questioned God's righteousness and God was OK with it.

 

[Bladerunner]

You're a stupid waste of time.

Good bye.

ok, Good Bye Mr. Clete

 

[Bladerunner]

Yeah but it's ... it's obv, playing, like a cat playing with a mouse, which is in keeping with Isaac on the altar with the knife. The story of Abraham and God involves grand toying-with. It's the vibe of the literature, it's obv. To discern too much about the nature of God from these altercations is to gravely err in interpretation.

What you should be reading in these, is something not about God, but about Abraham. He did what God told him to do, even though it seemed retarded to him. Up until God told him, "Abraham, no. That indeed is retarded. I was testing you. To see what you would do."

Similarly when Abraham successfully lobbies God to not kill innocent people, even though there are a whole mess of rotten people in the midst of them, it's also a game being played, by God, with Abraham. It shows who Abraham is. He's a moral man, and an exceedingly polite and respectful one too. The conversational tone here is certainly the same as that of a skilled attorney arguing before the Supreme Court—his very career is on the line here, if he doesn't toe the line, and he's very careful to do it.

It is not as if God is inclined toward injustice, and requires Abraham to correct Him! You talk about BLASPHEMY, wow. That the thought could be countenanced. 'Glad nobody thinks that at TOL.



Yeah or that was just God playing a game with Abraham, so that we would get a little more insight into who Abraham is, much more than that we learn more about God. God is not above playing games with us, especially it seems, if those games reveal and uncover for others, who you really are as a person, on the inside, where only God can see.

===


In a very LITERAL sense, He gave permission. He set limits for Satan, but Belial was free to operate anywhere within those limits, and the Devil absolutely pushed the envelope in every direction, which is a great uncovering and revelation of who HE is. Beelzebub hates your guts, and will not relent in any way (Moloch is tireless in working evil), and he is completely restrained (in the sense of being limited) by God. Lucifer goes right up to the legal limit that he's given by God, the limit God permits, because the Ancient Serpent Deceiver just hates you so much. When he is permitted to go further, he does. There is no question.

We pray at Mass "Deliver us from evil," to our Father Who art in Heaven (hallowed be Thy name). We constantly petition Him to restrain Asmodeus, so that Baphomet will not harm us.

Deliver us from evil. It's actually, I think, "The Evil One." Deliver us from the Evil One. And we know who THAT is.

you said:"because the Ancient Serpent Deceiver just hates you so much."

He only hates the true believer and GOD. In fact, throughout the Bible this is His 'MO', trying anything that will ruin GOD's 2 plans and/or His WORD. For if he does ruin the Word of GOD, then GOD has lost...and What happens if GOD loses?

Right now you should be saying it is Impossible for GOD to lose to anyone or thing much less a created being. For if He loses, He is not sovereign over everything and cannot be a god.

In my mind, He will not, can not lose for He has total control and total sovereignty of all things, everywhere including mankind.