Does Open Theism make us view eschatology differently?

[JudgeRightly]

It's still a metaphor, even how you are using it. He doesn't hit them on the head with an iron scepter.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Bladerunner]

Well, that's just the point I'm trying to make. Our interpretation of prophecy is one thing, it's actual fulfillment is quite another and, on top of that, prophecy is not prewritten history.

Take Isaiah 53, for example. We can see in hind sight that it is quite an explicit prophecy about a suffering Messiah but before the fact, it was as hidden from view as it would have been had it not been written at all. Had God's plan of salvation been an prophesied in an overtly explicit manner, Satan would have worked against having it ever happen. As it was, God was wise enough to put it in there sufficient to prove that it was His plan and that the events that unfolded were being orchestrated by Him but He did so in a way that kept His enemies in the dark as to His real intentions. I see no reason to expect that end time prophesied will not be fulfilled in a similar manner.

Although, having said that, God knows His enemies better than they know themselves. It isn't out of the question that He makes it so that the antichrist does what is prophesied because there's just no other reasonable course for him to take as though God has put a hook in his jaw (See Ezekiel 38). God manipulates nations in this way throughout the Old Testament and it isn't difficult for God to know what whole populations of people will do in response to particular circumstances which He is very capable of setting up.

question Clete: God partially blinded Israel on the very first day Jesus rode into Jerusalem. Today they still deny Jesus as their Messiah and we are told that 2/3 of their population (future) will die because of it (indirectly). My question is: Could not God partially blind Satan? After all he is a created being! For we are told what exactly will happen during the 'day of the Lord' and where/what the anti-christ (man of sin and the Son-of Perdition (Satan himself) will be doing during this time. thanks for your time

 

[Bladerunner]

Do you think murder will be punishable by death penalty?

We are told those who do not accept Jesus during this period (100yrs) they will be thrown into the Lake of fire and Brimstone. While the threat of death is certainly a deterrent, the though of eternity in the lake of fire would bring on much worse thoughts and fears.

 

[Derf]

We are told those who do not accept Jesus during this period (100yrs) they will be thrown into the Lake of fire and Brimstone.

Can you give scripture for that? I'm not disagreeing, but that statement is not in the bible, afaik.

While the threat of death is certainly a deterrent, the though of eternity in the lake of fire would bring on much worse thoughts and fears.

That thought would be unlikely to be in their minds, like it is not in the minds of so many today.

 

[Clete]

question Clete: God partially blinded Israel on the very first day Jesus rode into Jerusalem. Today they still deny Jesus as their Messiah and we are told that 2/3 of their population (future) will die because of it (indirectly). My question is: Could not God partially blind Satan? After all he is a created being! For we are told what exactly will happen during the 'day of the Lord' and where/what the anti-christ (man of sin and the Son-of Perdition (Satan himself) will be doing during this time. thanks for your time

I'm reminded of God "hardening Pharaoh's heart" in Exodus. How exactly did that happen?

Did God sprinkle some sort of spiritual hardening agent onto Pharaoh’s soul? No.

He performed miracles; acts of power that struck directly at Pharaoh’s pride. Pharaoh fancied himself a god, and when the true God showed up and worked wonders in his land, Pharaoh doubled down. Not because God forced him to, but because that’s who Pharaoh already was.

In fact, Scripture first tells us that Pharaoh hardened his own heart...

Exodus 8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the Lord had said​

Only after Pharaoh repeatedly chose defiance does it then say...

Exodus 9:12 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart​

In other words, God didn’t initiate Pharaoh’s rebellion, He simply gave it room to run. Once Pharaoh chose the path, God just poured it on thick and intensified Pharaoh's rebellion for His own purposes. The hardening was not mystical, nor was it involuntary. It was the natural consequence of pride clashing with Truth.

The same dynamic can be seen in Israel’s partial blindness. When Jesus entered Jerusalem, hailed as the Son of David, the leaders of Israel were forced to respond. They did, just as God knew they would; they rejected Him, not because they were under some divine spell, but because their expectations, ambitions, and pride were incompatible with the true Messiah. Then, just as with Pharaoh, once they made that decision, God used it. Their blindness was judicial, not arbitrary; it had a cause and it will not last forever.

Now what about Satan? Could God blind him? Of course! He is, after all, a created being, but again, God doesn’t need to. Satan is already blinded by pride. Like Pharaoh, Satan has been shown truth, even to the point of standing in the very presence of God Himself, and yet his response is rebellion. He quotes Scripture to Jesus in the wilderness, showing he knows the written word, but knowing and understanding are not the same thing. His pride twists what he sees and hears.

Incidentally, most prophecies don’t look like prophecies until after they’re fulfilled. Abraham offering Isaac only makes sense as a picture of the cross in hindsight. Isaiah 53 doesn’t obviously scream “Jesus” until you’ve seen Jesus. The prophetic puzzle only comes into focus in the rear view mirror. So, while Satan may know the overt prophecies (Revelation and the like), he doesn’t grasp the full picture (and neither do we, by the way! Your claim that "...we are told what exactly will happen during the 'day of the Lord' and where/what the anti-christ (man of sin and the Son-of Perdition (Satan himself) will be doing during this time" is quite false.). He knows enough to act, but not enough to see how God is using his every move to fulfill a plan he can't comprehend. Pride once again does the blinding.

So in the end, God doesn’t need to mystically override Pharaoh, or Israel, or Satan. He simply lets their own hearts, already veering off course, carry them exactly where He knew they would go and He uses their rebellion to accomplish His will.

 

[Nick M]

You speak as though you have no idea what actual justice looks like anymore, Derf!

They would have to see things of old in say the New Mexico territory where a murderer would be hung in front of every one. Or Saddam Hussein. I watched his on cell phone video 5 minutes after the new government executed him.

 

[Bladerunner]

Can you give scripture for that? I'm not disagreeing, but that statement is not in the bible, afaik.

which part? I'll start with the first part, the Sheep and Goat Judgement at the beginning of the Millennium.....His 1000 year reign physically on earth. Mat 25:31-46

That thought would be unlikely to be in their minds, like it is not in the minds of so many today.

No, I do not agree...It is in their minds and will only be remembered when the very possibility becomes true.

 

[Bladerunner]

Can you give scripture for that? I'm not disagreeing, but that statement is not in the bible, afaik.

Isa 65:20....."There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." Notice that the first part speaks of a child shall die at a 100 years old. All thru the Bible, the Lord Jesus has described Children as being those that blessed...Here we see they at 100 years of age, they either accept Him or as the next part states, (the sinner) shall be accursed and dies. It appears there will be many sinners during the last 100th year as Satan is release from the bottomless pit and bring a Gog/Magog scenario (AGAIN) to surround Jerusalem. This time the Lord is having nothing of it, for He sends fire down and dorvoures their bodies. I have no doubt the souls ended up in the lake of fire and brimstone.

That thought would be unlikely to be in their minds, like it is not in the minds of so many today.

 

[Derf]

which part? I'll start with the first part, the Sheep and Goat Judgement at the beginning of the Millennium.....His 1000 year reign physically on earth. Mat 25:31-46

Ok, you're talking about accepting Jesus as king at the beginning of 1000 years? But that judgment is based on how they acted prior to His return, not on what they do in the 1000 years, don't you think?

No, I do not agree...It is in their minds and will only be remembered when the very possibility becomes true.

Maybe. But that means you think all mankind currently should also be thinking of it, but they aren't, since it "will only be remembered when the very possibility becomes true". So it isn't "on their minds".

 

[Derf]

Isa 65:20....."There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed." Notice that the first part speaks of a child shall die at a 100 years old. All thru the Bible, the Lord Jesus has described Children as being those that blessed...Here we see they at 100 years of age, they either accept Him or as the next part states, (the sinner) shall be accursed and dies. It appears there will be many sinners during the last 100th year as Satan is release from the bottomless pit and bring a Gog/Magog scenario (AGAIN) to surround Jerusalem. This time the Lord is having nothing of it, for He sends fire down and dorvoures their bodies. I have no doubt the souls ended up in the lake of fire and brimstone.

Just because you have no doubt doesn't mean scripture says it.