So it is God's fault anybody goes to hell.
I don't believe that.
Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?
- Thread starter beloved57
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I don't believe that.
beloved57
Well-known member
See turning to God is conversion, Christ as Saviour is the author of our conversion, its part of the Gift of Salvation Acts 3:26
Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
The word turning here is the same word for turn in 2 Cor 3:16
Its Gods blessing to turn to the Lord. Otherwise, man doesnt seek after God Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Yep, God made it possible for us to turn from sin and unto Him.
I thank God for the gifts of repentance from sin, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and the gift of the Holy Ghost that keeps me on the straight and narrow.
And I thank Him for His word.
beloved57
Well-known member
God of scripture doesnt make things possible, He turns us, then we turn.
And those he turns away from Him He sends to hell because they have no choice in the matter.
What a horrible and unjust God you have.
Your sentenced refuted itself.
"He doesn't, then He does".???
And...all those going to hell will be able to blame God.
That will be small consolation to those who God denies salvation to during their lives.
You twist and misinterpret the scripture. No surprise there. I was correct.
The correct answer is YES, man CAN naturally seek God. God wrote the laws of nature as he created all things, and man naturally seeks his creator.
Now, a man may go astray in his seeking and end up in the wrong place. I will grant you that much. But the inner desire to seek his creator is written in the heart of EVERY man.
That throws free will out the window. You are wrong again.
Of course.
beloved57
Well-known member
Friend the answer is plain, No Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
beloved57
Well-known member
It sure does. No Im right and scripture is right. In order for a person to turn to the True God, they have to be first turned by Him. God must choose a person and cause the person to approach Him Ps 65:4
4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple. Its God who produces the effect of coming to Him or turning to Him !
Oh yes, I forgot, you adhere to the demonic lies of Calvinism
beloved57
Well-known member
cc said
Mans natural desire for his creator is there, thats why we are naturally religious by nature. Do you know how many religions there are in the world ? There are over 4,200 religions in the world. Now Paul shows us in Rom 1 how mans natural desire for his Creator has spiraled into Idolatry Rom 1:19-ff
So the indictment stands, Man naturally doesnt seek the True God, the True Creator, but he does seek a god, and worships a god, man is religous.
The Only way to know and Worship the True God is through the Person and Work of Jesus Christ and His revealing God Jn 17:2-3
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Mans natural desire for his creator is there, thats why we are naturally religious by nature. Do you know how many religions there are in the world ? There are over 4,200 religions in the world. Now Paul shows us in Rom 1 how mans natural desire for his Creator has spiraled into Idolatry Rom 1:19-ff
So the indictment stands, Man naturally doesnt seek the True God, the True Creator, but he does seek a god, and worships a god, man is religous.
The Only way to know and Worship the True God is through the Person and Work of Jesus Christ and His revealing God Jn 17:2-3
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
beloved57
Well-known member
The natural unregenerate man needs God desperately, we need to be quickened by God by His Mercy and Love Eph 2:4-5
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Apart from this merciful move from God, we are without any hope in this world, being spiritually dead unto God, the True God. See no natural man by nature in a unregenerate state, craves, searches for,worships or seeks the favor of the True God of Election, but contrarily scorns and holds Him in contempt ! Rom 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
The word carnal here is the word sarx and its the very same word translated flesh in Vs 8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
And all men by nature, in the unregenerate state, are #1 in the flesh and #2 carnal !
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Apart from this merciful move from God, we are without any hope in this world, being spiritually dead unto God, the True God. See no natural man by nature in a unregenerate state, craves, searches for,worships or seeks the favor of the True God of Election, but contrarily scorns and holds Him in contempt ! Rom 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
The word carnal here is the word sarx and its the very same word translated flesh in Vs 8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
And all men by nature, in the unregenerate state, are #1 in the flesh and #2 carnal !
beloved57
Well-known member
By nature, there is nothing in us, in regards to our sinful flesh/nature which causes us to seek the True and Living God, neither to even understand the things of the True God Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
This isnt altered until we are born of the Spirit Jn 3:6-7
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
This isnt altered until we are born of the Spirit Jn 3:6-7
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
beloved57
Well-known member
Now do men ever seek after the True God ? Acts 17:26-27
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Acts 15:16-18
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
So yes, those whom God seeks out first with His regenerating grace and His effectual call, they will be caused to seek the Lord and put their Trust in Him, yet He Himself is the originating cause of their seeking Him Ps 65:4
4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
Acts 15:16-18
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
So yes, those whom God seeks out first with His regenerating grace and His effectual call, they will be caused to seek the Lord and put their Trust in Him, yet He Himself is the originating cause of their seeking Him Ps 65:4
4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.
beloved57
Well-known member
Man by nature is without hope and without God !
Eph 2:12
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
So therefore man naturally doesnt seek for the True God Rom 3:11. Man by nature is only a child of wrath Eph 2:3
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
So explain how one in this terrible shape, can seek after the True God ? He cant, and wont. Thats not to say man doesnt naturally seek after a god, but just not the True God !
How can a spiritually dead sinner exercise his so called freewill to choose God, when he is by nature without hope and without God ? Read Eph 2:20 once again.
Eph 2:12
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
So therefore man naturally doesnt seek for the True God Rom 3:11. Man by nature is only a child of wrath Eph 2:3
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
So explain how one in this terrible shape, can seek after the True God ? He cant, and wont. Thats not to say man doesnt naturally seek after a god, but just not the True God !
How can a spiritually dead sinner exercise his so called freewill to choose God, when he is by nature without hope and without God ? Read Eph 2:20 once again.
A spiritually dead sinner can exercise his will ("free will" is a redundant term: if it's not free, it's not a will) because Christ went to the cross to for him, to enable such a dead, without hope, sinner to choose God, by providing a means for him to do so, where before there was no way for him to do so.
Read Ephesians 2 (the whole chapter) once again.
beloved57
Well-known member
So a spiritually dead sinner does have hope. What about these spiritually dead sinners Eph 2:12
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: