Yom Kippur

[beameup]

Ez was written [600BC) before the Temple was restored and the walls of Jerusalem rebuilt around 500BC (Nehemiah and Ezra]. That was the "third temple" which fell again during the during the reign of Greece 325BC. They desecrated the Temple - destroyed most of it - enter the Maccabees. They rebuilt some of it, rededicated it [hence hanukkah, but was originally called the Feast of Fire - no 8 day miracle of oil - that legend was added by the Talmud] and re-instituted the sacrificial system and the priesthood by their own appointments. The last brother, Simon [the others has all died in wars], elected himself as High Priest and King over Israel. Later, Herod was put in as King by Rome - he was not eligible - not from the line of David and cursed - he was half Edomite]. The temple was completely renovated by Herod, known as Herold's Temple - the actual 4th temple - destroyed 70 AD by the Romans. There will never again be a Temple made with hands. Jesus is the only Temple, forevermore without end. That section of history in a nutshell

It doesn't "measure up".
The Temple in Ezekiel has never been built.
The Temple in Ezekiel has Messiah inside.
Once again, you leave nothing but "droppings".

 

[TweetyBird]

It doesn't "measure up".
The Temple in Ezekiel has never been built.
The Temple in Ezekiel has Messiah inside.
Once again, you leave nothing but "droppings".

That is because Jesus is the Temple aka "Messiah inside". The temple does not measure up in any way to a physical temple. The sacrifices are "off", there is no covenant, no altar of incense, no bronze laver (wash basin), no golden lampstand, no table of shewbread, no veil covering the holy of holies, no holy of holies, no ark of the covenant, no mercy seat, no cherubim, the altar is approached by steps from the east (steps forbidden because of nakedness), Levticial priesthood was set aside, the sons of Zadok replaced it, etc. Too many differences for it to be a literal temple.

Those in Christ are building a spiritual habitation/house where God indwells. Ezekiel's temple was a vision, not a real literal temple. It was fulfilled in Christ and in His body of believers in the new covenant.

“For having been drawn to Him, a living Stone, indeed rejected by men, but elect, precious with God; you also as living stones are built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 2:4-5 MKJV)

Hebrews 9:6-12 MKJV
(6) Now when these things were ordained in this way, the priests always went into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
(7) But once in the year into the second the high priest goes alone, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the errors of the people
(8) the Holy Spirit signifying by this that the way into the Holiest of all was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing.
(9) For it was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices that could not make him who did the service perfect as regards the conscience,
(10) which stood only in meats and drinks, and different kinds of washings and fleshly ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
(11) But when Christ had become a high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect Tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building
(12) nor by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood He entered once for all into the Holies, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(24) For Christ has not entered into the Holy of Holies made with hands, which are the figures of the true, but into Heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.
(25) Nor yet that He should offer Himself often, even as the high priest enters into the Holy of Holies every year with the blood of others,
(26) for then He must have suffered often since the foundation of the world, but now once in the end of the world He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Hebrews 8:4-13 MKJV
(4) For if indeed [Christ] were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the Law,
(5) who serve the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was warned of God when he was about to make the tabernacle. For, He says “See that you make all things according to the pattern shown to you in the mountain.”
(6) But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by so much He is also the Mediator of a better covenant, which was built upon better promises.
(7) For if that first covenant had been without fault, then no place would have been sought for the second.

 

[beameup]

That is because Jesus is the Temple aka "Messiah inside".
The sacrifices are "off",

Ezekiel chapters 40-48 go into great detail concerning the
future Temple and the Temple Sacrifices where Messiah will live and rule.

Perhaps you left Ezekiel 40-48 on the bottom of your birdcage?

 

[Lilstu]

Hosea 14:2 King James Version (KJV)
Take with you words, and turn to the Lord: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips.

Perhaps animal sacrifices have been replaced with prayer..."the calves of our lips"

 

[TweetyBird]

Ezekiel chapters 40-48 go into great detail concerning the
future Temple and the Temple Sacrifices where Messiah will live and rule.

Perhaps you left Ezekiel 40-48 on the bottom of your birdcage?

Those details leave out the actual physical temple. The items left out indicate it is not a literal physical temple, including atonement and forgiveness of sins - which was the purpose of the sacrifices. Jesus died once and for all. There are no more sacrifices to be done. It is finished. His words, not mine.

There is no more a Temple of God made with hands. He said so. Ez was a VISION. Visions are representative aka point to something else. There is so much evidence that Ez's vision refers to the prophecy of Jesus Christ, it makes one wonder how it is missed so easily.

Hebrews 13:15
By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

 

[Lilstu]

Those details leave out the actual physical temple. The items left out indicate it is not a literal physical temple, including atonement and forgiveness of sins - which was the purpose of the sacrifices. Jesus died once and for all. There are no more sacrifices to be done. It is finished. His words, not mine.

There is no more a Temple of God made with hands. He said so. Ez was a VISION. Visions are representative aka point to something else. There is so much evidence that Ez's vision refers to the prophecy of Jesus Christ, it makes one wonder how it is missed so easily.

Hebrews 13:15
By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

What evidence leads you to believe that Ezekiel's temple is not a physical temple?

 

[TweetyBird]

What evidence leads you to believe that Ezekiel's temple is not a physical temple?

Solomon's Temple was built based on the Tabernacle. It is the more glorious "hard copy" of the transportable. If there was to be another Temple, it would be a copy of Solomon's, not a physical Temple lacking in the most important parts. The Mosaic Law/Book of the Law which resided in the Holy of Holies, was the guide to an actual physical temple, built for the purpose as a dwelling place for God, for the purpose of sacrifices for sins and ritual ceremonies, plus the Holy of Holies was accessed by the High Priest once a year at Yom Kippur [Day of Atonement]. That required a sin sacrifice and brought within the Holy of Holies, blood dripped/smeared on the mercy seat. Without the Ark, the Mercy Seat and Cherubim, residing in the Holy of Holies it would not be a real physical temple. Too much is missing and too many differences. There is no atonement or forgiveness of sin mentioned. There was no added covenant given to include this kind of temple which contradicts that which God designed in the Law of Moses Covenant.

 

[Lilstu]

There was no ark in the Temple in Jesus' day.
It had been missing since the Babylonians destroyed the temple in 586 BC

So I don't see any problem with Ezekiel's temple not having the Ark

 

[TweetyBird]

There was no ark in the Temple in Jesus' day.
It had been missing since the Babylonians destroyed the temple in 586 BC

So I don't see any problem with Ezekiel's temple not having the Ark

There was a Holy of Holies and the sacrifices were brought there. The Law of Christ has taken its place - that covenant has ceased. The Ark was gone because God broke His covenant with Israel [Zech 11]. The temple process and sacrifices remained because of His grace until Christ - He then put and end to the sacrifices. That is why Herod's temple was destroyed. For over 2,000 years there has been no temple. Do you know why? Because it's Jesus. A temple not made with hands. The days of a temple built with hands is long gone, forever. Jesus is of the High Priesthood of Melchizedek. There was only one eternal sacrifice in that Priesthood, which took the place of the Levitical priesthood. Read Heb 8,9. Putting Jesus back in charge of non-existent priesthood and a sacrificial system that He paid for with His life and shed blood is anathema.

 

[Lilstu]

Has the following been fulfilled?
Isaiah 11:1-12 (King James Version)
1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

I think you are missing the big picture. The Kingdom here on earth.

 

[TweetyBird]

Has the following been fulfilled?
Isaiah 11:1-12 (King James Version)
1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
11And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

I think you are missing the big picture. The Kingdom here on earth.

A very picturesque passage, using allegory to describe the Kingdom of Christ --- but yes, I see it all fulfilled in Christ. He is King, reigning now, over all the earth. We have been translated into His Kingdom and are citizens of His Kingdom. The New Heaven and New Earth are present in the Heavenlies. We cannot see them yet, but we will in the age to come. There is no time with God - He is the Beginning and the End. All who are gathered into Christ Jesus are reigning with Him in His Kingdom. It is not of this world. With the death and resurrection of Christ, everything changed - that which was not revealed before Christ, we are given knowledge of - the existence of that which cannot be seen.

John 11
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 50 nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. 51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

 

[Lilstu]

A very picturesque passage, using allegory to describe the Kingdom of Christ --- but yes, I see it all fulfilled in Christ. He is King, reigning now, over all the earth. We have been translated into His Kingdom and are citizens of His Kingdom. The New Heaven and New Earth are present in the Heavenlies. We cannot see them yet, but we will in the age to come. There is no time with God - He is the Beginning and the End. All who are gathered into Christ Jesus are reigning with Him in His Kingdom. It is not of this world. With the death and resurrection of Christ, everything changed - that which was not revealed before Christ, we are given knowledge of - the existence of that which cannot be seen.

John 11
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 50 nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. 51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Didn't happen!

 

[beameup]

Nothing "allegorical" about the coming Millennial Temple and its memorial sacrifices. 9 chapters in Ezekiel are devoted to the subject. "Allegoricalization" of Scripture is a heretical effort of Replacement Theology to promote "Kingdom now, Kingdom here" error.

And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile - Ezekiel 43:7a

 

[TweetyBird]

61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Didn't happen!

That's quite a jump from the OT passages you were quoting. NT prophecy is not OT prophecy.

 

[TweetyBird]

Nothing "allegorical" about the coming Millennial Temple and its memorial sacrifices. 9 chapters in Ezekiel are devoted to the subject. "Allegoricalization" of Scripture is a heretical effort of Replacement Theology to promote "Kingdom now, Kingdom here" error.

And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile - Ezekiel 43:7a

There is no such thing as "memorial sacrifices"[Messianic Judaism's Hebrew Roots nonsense]. Jesus died as THE Sacrifice, once and for all - His death covered all the sacrifices in the Old Covenant Law.

Allegory is not replacement theology. No one got replaced. The Jews have the same opportunity to believe on Christ as anyone else. Everyone else, aka all nations, have the same opportunity to believe on Christ as the Jews do. Same Savior, same Gospel. Jesus' Kingdom is here now - it is within all those who believe in Him. When He returns on the clouds of glory, His kingdom will come down from Heaven onto a new earth, forevermore. In Christ there is no Jew or Gentile, we are ONE NEW MAN.

Jesus arrived in the midst of Israel. He lived there for about 33 years, preached His Kingdom to them and showed them the way to the Father, then died for them while they screamed, "may His blood be upon us and our children". Nationally, Israel rejected Him, just as she rejected God under the old covenant. Those of Israel - the remnant prophesied of, are in Christ and are not defiling the Lord, they are part of His body, His nation, His household, His Kingdom, which includes those from every tribe, and nation, and tongue.

 

[beameup]

That's quite a jump from the OT passages you were quoting. NT prophecy is not OT prophecy.

She is quoting from Daniel 7:

I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.

And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
Daniel 7:13-14

 

[TweetyBird]

She is quoting from Daniel 7:

I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.

And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
Daniel 7:13-14

Amen! Fulfilled in Christ Jesus, 100%. Colossians 1

 

[Lilstu]

She is quoting from Daniel 7:

I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.

And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
Daniel 7:13-14

The BIG question concerning Daniel 7 is the identity of the 4th beast.

19 “Then I desired to know the exact meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its claws of bronze, and which devoured, crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet, 20 and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in appearance than its associates. 21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them 22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

 

[Lilstu]

Amen! Fulfilled in Christ Jesus, 100%. Colossians 1

“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Has this happened? I doubt it.

31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.”

David's throne was in Jerusalem. I don't see that this has happened yet.

 

[TweetyBird]

The BIG question concerning Daniel 7 is the identity of the 4th beast.

19 “Then I desired to know the exact meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its claws of bronze, and which devoured, crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet, 20 and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in appearance than its associates. 21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them 22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

The Kingdom is within. Jesus aka the Holy Spirit lives within. He made an open show of satan on the cross, prevailing against Him. Colossians 1 & 2. All prophecy in the OT regarding Christ has been fulfilled per Jesus.