I see you are reproved in your own thread concerning Melki-Tzedek, here, and that poster explains to you the same thing I already said to you, here, so I see no need to continue on with you in the matter of Melki-Tzedek since you now have your own thread on the topic. However I will say that you appear to be under the assumption that all Judaism in the first century believed what you believe concerning resurrection. The truth is that only the Sadduks believed what you believe. Your opinion was not the majority and in fact was the least accepted among the three or four main sects. The Essenes and both houses of the Pharisees hotly disputed your understanding. In addition the Essene community was ruled by sons of Zadok, though considered renegades, and therefore were also Tzaddukim and blood line brothers of the "inner city" carnal minded priesthood. Your paradigm is thus reduced to about one eighth of the first century consensus. In short your opinion represents a mere eighth of the mindset of first century Judaism as a whole, (and more likely even less than that). And if there is no resurrection then you are essentially believing and teaching the faulty statement, "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die."
Yeshua Says:
- Thread starter daqq
- Start date
I see you are reproved in your own thread concerning Melki-Tzedek, here, and that poster explains to you the same thing I already said to you, here, so I see no need to continue on with you in the matter of Melki-Tzedek since you now have your own thread on the topic. However I will say that you appear to be under the assumption that all Judaism in the first century believed what you believe concerning resurrection. The truth is that only the Sadduks believed what you believe. Your opinion was not the majority and in fact was the least accepted among the three or four main sects. The Essenes and both houses of the Pharisees hotly disputed your understanding. In addition the Essene community was ruled by sons of Zadok, though considered renegades, and therefore were also Tzaddukim and blood line brothers of the "inner city" carnal minded priesthood. Your paradigm is thus reduced to about one eighth of the first century consensus. In short your opinion represents a mere eighth of the mindset of first century Judaism as a whole, (and more likely even less than that). And if there is no resurrection then you are essentially believing and teaching the faulty statement, "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die."
If you would like an example of the meaning of this parable there is now unfortunately a perfect example to be found in the following three consecutive posts, #3966, #3968, and #3971, from another thread today. The "division in the sect" is the essential argument over atonement theory or doctrine and whether "aphiemi" should be primarily understood as "to forgive" or whether it should be understood as "to send away in various forms" as it always did before the advent of westernized, Hellenistic minded, "English translation" post modern mainstream Christianity. The primary meaning of "aphiemi" was never "to forgive" which, in modern times, now immediately implies "a pardon" in the western mind whether anyone wishes to admit it or not, (making the problem even worse). The way aphiemi is now rendered in all modern English translations, (many times, although not always, where it is rendered "to forgive", "forgiven", and "forgiveness", and especially in the Gospel accounts) it is nothing more than an intellectually dishonest and theologically biased reinterpretation of the word designed to grant a perceived "pardon" for sins to anyone who joins "the church", (insert your favorite denomination here) while continuing to sin thinking that grace abounds all the more because of the continual habitual sinning that has all been already "pardoned". The modern rendering essentially removes the need for any "works" from the good news Gospel record and Testimony of Yeshua. The Kohen Gadol indeed "bears up the sins of the people", (HSN#5375 nasa', for example as employed in Isaiah 53:12) but this is only a temporary lifting up-off and bearing of sins in that the Kohen Gadol lifts up the sins of the people, from off of them, but only so as to place the sins of the people upon the head of the live goat which is then to be sent away, (aphiemi) into the desert-wilderness to/for Azazel. According to the Torah the Kohen Gadol most definitely "sends away" the sins of the people but, that is to say, he sends them away upon the head of the twin goat which is to be provided by the congregation.
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Yeshua Says: An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Yonah: for as Yonah was three days and three nights in the koilia of the great fish, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the Land, (Mattityahu 12:39-40).
Three Days:
Yonah 1:1-5 ~ It came to pass, the Word of YHWH unto Yonah the son of Amittai, saying, Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me. But Yonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of YHWH, and went down to the Beautiful, (the Sea of Kinneret-Yapho) and he found a vessel going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of YHWH. But YHWH sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the vessel was like to be broken. Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the vessel into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Yonah was gone down into the quarters of the vessel; and was lain down, and was radam, (deep sleep or stupefied).
First Day - Gergesenos (near Antioch Hippos)
Mattityahu 8:23-28 ~ And he entered into a vessel, his talmidim following with him, and behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the vessel was flooded with the waves: but he was lain down. And his talmidim came to him, and roused him, saying, Master, save us: we perish! And he says to them, Why are you fearful, O you of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm. But the men wondered, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him! And having come to the Peran, into the country of the Gergesenos, there met him two daemoniacs coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that none might have the strength to pass through that way.
Second Day - Gadarenos (near Hamat Gader and Gadara)
Markos 4:36-5:1 ~ And leaving the multitude, they take him with them, even as he was, in the vessel. And other vessels were with him. And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the vessel, so that it was now filling. And he was in the stern-quarters of the vessel, lain down upon a headrest: and they rouse him, and say unto him, Teacher, do you not care that we perish!? And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said unto them, Why are you so fearful? how is it that you have no faith? And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him? And they came to the Peran of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenos.
Third Day - Gerasenos (near the lake of the abyss at Gerasa)
Lukas 8:22-26 ~ Moreover it came to be in one of the days: and he entered into a vessel with his talmidim, and he said unto them, Let us pass through the Peran, to the lake. And they set sail. But sailing he was away-hypnos: and there came down a storm of wind on the lake; and they were filled with water, and were in jeopardy. And they came to him, and roused him, saying, Epistata, Commander, we perish! Then he arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm. And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And fearing they wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this? for he commands even the winds and water, and they obey him. And they sailed down to the country of the Gerasenos, (which is Anti-Peran of the Galil).
Three Days in the heart of the Land . . .
Three Days:
Yonah 1:1-5 ~ It came to pass, the Word of YHWH unto Yonah the son of Amittai, saying, Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me. But Yonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of YHWH, and went down to the Beautiful, (the Sea of Kinneret-Yapho) and he found a vessel going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of YHWH. But YHWH sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the vessel was like to be broken. Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the vessel into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Yonah was gone down into the quarters of the vessel; and was lain down, and was radam, (deep sleep or stupefied).
First Day - Gergesenos (near Antioch Hippos)
Mattityahu 8:23-28 ~ And he entered into a vessel, his talmidim following with him, and behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the vessel was flooded with the waves: but he was lain down. And his talmidim came to him, and roused him, saying, Master, save us: we perish! And he says to them, Why are you fearful, O you of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm. But the men wondered, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him! And having come to the Peran, into the country of the Gergesenos, there met him two daemoniacs coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that none might have the strength to pass through that way.
Second Day - Gadarenos (near Hamat Gader and Gadara)
Markos 4:36-5:1 ~ And leaving the multitude, they take him with them, even as he was, in the vessel. And other vessels were with him. And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the vessel, so that it was now filling. And he was in the stern-quarters of the vessel, lain down upon a headrest: and they rouse him, and say unto him, Teacher, do you not care that we perish!? And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said unto them, Why are you so fearful? how is it that you have no faith? And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him? And they came to the Peran of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenos.
Third Day - Gerasenos (near the lake of the abyss at Gerasa)
Lukas 8:22-26 ~ Moreover it came to be in one of the days: and he entered into a vessel with his talmidim, and he said unto them, Let us pass through the Peran, to the lake. And they set sail. But sailing he was away-hypnos: and there came down a storm of wind on the lake; and they were filled with water, and were in jeopardy. And they came to him, and roused him, saying, Epistata, Commander, we perish! Then he arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm. And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And fearing they wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this? for he commands even the winds and water, and they obey him. And they sailed down to the country of the Gerasenos, (which is Anti-Peran of the Galil).
Three Days in the heart of the Land . . .
First Night - To Capernaum
Yohannes 6:16-25 ~ And when even was now come, his talmidim went down unto the sea, and entered into a ship, and went over the sea toward Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Yeshua was not come to them. And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew. So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty stadia, they see Yeshua walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid. But he says unto them, It is I, be not afraid. Then they willingly received him into the vessel: and immediately the vessel was at the Land to where they went. The day following, when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was none other vessel there, save that one whereinto his talmidim were entered, and that Yeshua went not with his talmidim into the boat, but that his talmidim were gone away alone, (howbeit there came other boats from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they did eat bread, after the Master had given thanks) when the people therefore saw that Yeshua was not there, neither his talmidim, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Yeshua. And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, how did you come here?
Second Night - To Gennesaret (Mattityahu and Markos)
Mattityahu 14:22-34 ~ And straightway Yeshua constrained his talmidim to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away. And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone. But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary. And in the fourth watch of the night Yeshua went unto them, walking on the sea. And when the talmidim saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit!, and they cried out for fear. But straightway Yeshua spoke unto them, saying, Be of good cheer, it is I, be not afraid. And Petros answered him, and said, Master, if it be you, bid me come unto you on the water. And he said, Come! And when Petros was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Yeshua. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was fearful: and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Master, save me! And immediately Yeshua stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, You of little faith, why did you stand duplicate? And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. Then they that were in the ship came and bowed to him, saying, Of a truth a Son of God you are! And when they were gone over, they came into the land of Gennesaret.
Markos 6:45-53 ~ And straightway he constrained his talmidim to get into the ship, and to go to the other side before unto Bethsaida, while he sent away the people. And when he had sent them away, he departed into a mountain to pray. And when even was come, the ship was in the midst of the sea, and he alone on the land. And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he came unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them. But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out: for they all saw him, and were troubled. And immediately he talked with them, and said unto them, Be of good cheer, it is I, be not afraid. And he went up unto them into the ship, and the wind ceased, and they were sore amazed in themselves beyond measure, and wondered. For they considered not the miracle of the loaves: for their heart was hardened. And crossing over upon the Land, they came to Gennesaret, and moored.
Third Night - To Paran (the other side)
Cast not away your confidence, which has great recompence of reward, for you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of Elohim, you might receive the Promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: "But if any man draw back: My soul shall have no pleasure in him." However we are not of them who draw back, unto perdition, but of them that believe unto the saving of the soul. For, behold, a sign in the heavens, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last strokes: for in them is filled up the thumos-passion-fury of Elohim. And as it were a sea of transparency, like glass, having been mingled with fire: and those victorious over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of transparency having harps of Elohim. And they sing the song of Moshe the servant of Elohim, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are your works, YHWH Elohim Almighty: just and true are your ways, the King of nations! Who shall not fear you, O YHWH, and glorify your name? For you only are holy: for all nations shall come and bow before you, for your judgments are made manifest. And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: and the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven strokes, arrayed with precious stone, pure and bright, and girt about their breasts with golden belts. And one of the four living creatures gave unto the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the thumos-passion-fury of Elohim, who lives for ever and ever. And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of Elohim, and from his power: and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven strokes of the seven angels were fulfilled. In the fourth watch of the night, at the Anatole sunrising, as a light that shines in a darkened place: the day will dawn, and the Daystar arise in the heart of the Land of the man; each in his or her own appointed times.
:sheep:
Yohannes 6:16-25 ~ And when even was now come, his talmidim went down unto the sea, and entered into a ship, and went over the sea toward Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Yeshua was not come to them. And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew. So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty stadia, they see Yeshua walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid. But he says unto them, It is I, be not afraid. Then they willingly received him into the vessel: and immediately the vessel was at the Land to where they went. The day following, when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was none other vessel there, save that one whereinto his talmidim were entered, and that Yeshua went not with his talmidim into the boat, but that his talmidim were gone away alone, (howbeit there came other boats from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they did eat bread, after the Master had given thanks) when the people therefore saw that Yeshua was not there, neither his talmidim, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Yeshua. And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, how did you come here?
Second Night - To Gennesaret (Mattityahu and Markos)
Mattityahu 14:22-34 ~ And straightway Yeshua constrained his talmidim to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away. And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone. But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary. And in the fourth watch of the night Yeshua went unto them, walking on the sea. And when the talmidim saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit!, and they cried out for fear. But straightway Yeshua spoke unto them, saying, Be of good cheer, it is I, be not afraid. And Petros answered him, and said, Master, if it be you, bid me come unto you on the water. And he said, Come! And when Petros was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Yeshua. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was fearful: and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Master, save me! And immediately Yeshua stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, You of little faith, why did you stand duplicate? And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. Then they that were in the ship came and bowed to him, saying, Of a truth a Son of God you are! And when they were gone over, they came into the land of Gennesaret.
Markos 6:45-53 ~ And straightway he constrained his talmidim to get into the ship, and to go to the other side before unto Bethsaida, while he sent away the people. And when he had sent them away, he departed into a mountain to pray. And when even was come, the ship was in the midst of the sea, and he alone on the land. And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he came unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them. But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out: for they all saw him, and were troubled. And immediately he talked with them, and said unto them, Be of good cheer, it is I, be not afraid. And he went up unto them into the ship, and the wind ceased, and they were sore amazed in themselves beyond measure, and wondered. For they considered not the miracle of the loaves: for their heart was hardened. And crossing over upon the Land, they came to Gennesaret, and moored.
Third Night - To Paran (the other side)
Cast not away your confidence, which has great recompence of reward, for you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of Elohim, you might receive the Promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: "But if any man draw back: My soul shall have no pleasure in him." However we are not of them who draw back, unto perdition, but of them that believe unto the saving of the soul. For, behold, a sign in the heavens, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last strokes: for in them is filled up the thumos-passion-fury of Elohim. And as it were a sea of transparency, like glass, having been mingled with fire: and those victorious over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of transparency having harps of Elohim. And they sing the song of Moshe the servant of Elohim, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are your works, YHWH Elohim Almighty: just and true are your ways, the King of nations! Who shall not fear you, O YHWH, and glorify your name? For you only are holy: for all nations shall come and bow before you, for your judgments are made manifest. And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: and the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven strokes, arrayed with precious stone, pure and bright, and girt about their breasts with golden belts. And one of the four living creatures gave unto the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the thumos-passion-fury of Elohim, who lives for ever and ever. And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of Elohim, and from his power: and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven strokes of the seven angels were fulfilled. In the fourth watch of the night, at the Anatole sunrising, as a light that shines in a darkened place: the day will dawn, and the Daystar arise in the heart of the Land of the man; each in his or her own appointed times.
:sheep:
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Hello RBBI, thank you, and please feel free to contribute.
Yeshua Says: The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual evidence of observation: neither shall they say, Behold, here it is! or, Look, there it is! For, behold, the kingdom of Elohim is within yourselves! (And he said to the talmidim) The days will come when you shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and you shall not see it, and they shall say to you, See here!, or, See there! Go not after them, neither follow them: for exactly as the ray of light that shines forth from under one end of the heavens, lighting up the other end under the heavens, (Anatole rising light, first beam of light from the rising sun) so shall also the Son of man be in his day. No doubt, for the patient and the faithful in Messiah, the famine will be over in that day.
Shabbat Shalom
Yeshua Says: I beheld the Satan as lightning fall from the heavens. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in the heavens. In that hour Yeshua rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank you, O Father, Master of the heavens and of the earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and prudent, and have revealed them unto babes: even so, Father, for so it seemed good in your sight. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no one knows who the Son is, if not the Father; and who the Father is, if not the Son, and to whomever the Son wills to reveal him, (Luke 10:18-22). And from the companion passage Yeshua then says: Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find shabbat-rest unto your souls (anapausis-intermission). For my yoke is chrestos, and my burden is light, (Matthew 11:28-30). At that same appointed time, (Matthew 12:1-5) Yeshua went in the sabbasin through the grainfields; and his talmidim were hungering, and began to pluck heads of grain, and to eat. But when the Perushim saw it, they said unto him, Behold, your talmidim do that which is not lawful to do in shabbat! But he said unto them, Have you not read what David did, when he was hungering, and they that were with him: how he entered into the house of Elohim, and did eat the Bread of the Presence, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? Or have you not read in the Torah, how that in the sabbasin the priests in the temple profane the Shabbat, and are blameless? (Lev 24:1-8, Num 28:1-10).
So the supernal understanding of the three days and three nights at Golgotha begins herein:
Leviticus 24:5-8
5. And you shall take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth parts shall be in one cake.
6. And you shall set them in two rows, six on a row, upon the pure table before YHWH.
7. And you shall put pure frankincense with each row, that it may go with the lechem-bread as a memorial, an offering made by fire unto YHWH.
8. (Byowm hashabat byowm hashabat) In a yom-day of the Shabbat, the Shabbat in a yom-day, he shall set it in order before YHWH tamiyd-continually, being taken from the sons of Yisrael, an everlasting covenant.
Numbers 28:1-10
1. And YHWH spoke unto Moshe, saying:
2. Command the sons of Yisrael, and say unto them, My korban, My lechem-bread offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto Me, you shall take heed to offer unto Me in its appointed time.
3. And you shall say unto them, This is the offering made by fire which you shall offer unto YHWH: he-lambs, sons of a year, tamiymim-perfect-complete, two for a yom-day, a tamiyd-continual ascending offering.
4. The one lamb shall you offer in the morning, and the other lamb shall you offer between the evenings:
5. And the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a minchah-oblation, mingled with the fourth part of a hin of beaten oil-olive.
6. It is a continual ascending offering, which was ordained in mount Sinai for a sweet savor, an offering made by fire unto YHWH.
7. And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of a hin for the one lamb: in the holy place you shall cause to be poured out a drink offering of strong drink unto YHWH.
8. And the other lamb shall you offer between the evenings, as the minchah-oblation of the morning and its drink offering shall you offer it, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto YHWH.
9. And in the yom-day of the Shabbat: two he-lambs, sons of a year, tamiymim-perfect-complete, and two tenth parts of an ephah of fine flour, a minchah-oblation, mingled with oil-olive, and the drink offering thereof:
10. This is the ascending offering of a Shabbat in its Shabbat over-above the tamiyd-continual and its drink offering.
Is it possible that we read "the Shabbat in a yom-day" in Leviticus 24:8?
And, more importantly, what therefore is "a Shabbat in its Shabbat", (Num 28:10)?
:sheep:
So the supernal understanding of the three days and three nights at Golgotha begins herein:
Leviticus 24:5-8
5. And you shall take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth parts shall be in one cake.
6. And you shall set them in two rows, six on a row, upon the pure table before YHWH.
7. And you shall put pure frankincense with each row, that it may go with the lechem-bread as a memorial, an offering made by fire unto YHWH.
8. (Byowm hashabat byowm hashabat) In a yom-day of the Shabbat, the Shabbat in a yom-day, he shall set it in order before YHWH tamiyd-continually, being taken from the sons of Yisrael, an everlasting covenant.
Numbers 28:1-10
1. And YHWH spoke unto Moshe, saying:
2. Command the sons of Yisrael, and say unto them, My korban, My lechem-bread offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto Me, you shall take heed to offer unto Me in its appointed time.
3. And you shall say unto them, This is the offering made by fire which you shall offer unto YHWH: he-lambs, sons of a year, tamiymim-perfect-complete, two for a yom-day, a tamiyd-continual ascending offering.
4. The one lamb shall you offer in the morning, and the other lamb shall you offer between the evenings:
5. And the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a minchah-oblation, mingled with the fourth part of a hin of beaten oil-olive.
6. It is a continual ascending offering, which was ordained in mount Sinai for a sweet savor, an offering made by fire unto YHWH.
7. And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of a hin for the one lamb: in the holy place you shall cause to be poured out a drink offering of strong drink unto YHWH.
8. And the other lamb shall you offer between the evenings, as the minchah-oblation of the morning and its drink offering shall you offer it, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto YHWH.
9. And in the yom-day of the Shabbat: two he-lambs, sons of a year, tamiymim-perfect-complete, and two tenth parts of an ephah of fine flour, a minchah-oblation, mingled with oil-olive, and the drink offering thereof:
10. This is the ascending offering of a Shabbat in its Shabbat over-above the tamiyd-continual and its drink offering.
Is it possible that we read "the Shabbat in a yom-day" in Leviticus 24:8?
And, more importantly, what therefore is "a Shabbat in its Shabbat", (Num 28:10)?
:sheep:
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Ben Masada
New member
"On their own accord" is an addition from your own mind even knowing that we are not to add to the Word which the Lord commanded us neither diminish any thing from it. (Deut. 4:2) So, let the Word of God stand the way King David understood in II Sam. 12:23.
Every thing is possible to God but one, to do what you wish He did or should have done. That's not how the Lord works.
Ben Masada
New member
From a University course on Judaica in the University of Judaism and my logical understanding of the Truth. It does not make sense at all to use a pagan priest of the Canaanites to symbolize anything among the People of the Most High.
Ben Masada
New member
The Essene branch of Judaism was much more fundamentalist than what you think I am. They considered the relation between Jews and Gentiles as the endless struggle between the children of light aka the Jews versus the children of darkness aka the Gentiles. How could they ever adopt the idea that Abraham, King David and all the righteous among us be something after the order of a pagan priest of the Canaanites? It is only obvious to adopt the Jewish expression, "After the Order of Melchizedek.
Ben Masada
New member
If you would like an example of the meaning of this parable there is now unfortunately a perfect example to be found in the following three consecutive posts, #3966, #3968, and #3971, from another thread today. The "division in the sect" is the essential argument over atonement theory or doctrine and whether "aphiemi" should be primarily understood as "to forgive" or whether it should be understood as "to send away in various forms" as it always did before the advent of westernized, Hellenistic minded, "English translation" post modern mainstream Christianity. The primary meaning of "aphiemi" was never "to forgive" which, in modern times, now immediately implies "a pardon" in the western mind whether anyone wishes to admit it or not, (making the problem even worse). The way aphiemi is now rendered in all modern English translations, (many times, although not always, where it is rendered "to forgive", "forgiven", and "forgiveness", and especially in the Gospel accounts) it is nothing more than an intellectually dishonest and theologically biased reinterpretation of the word designed to grant a perceived "pardon" for sins to anyone who joins "the church", (insert your favorite denomination here) while continuing to sin thinking that grace abounds all the more because of the continual habitual sinning that has all been already "pardoned". The modern rendering essentially removes the need for any "works" from the good news Gospel record and Testimony of Yeshua. The Kohen Gadol indeed "bears up the sins of the people", (HSN#5375 nasa', for example as employed in Isaiah 53:12) but this is only a temporary lifting up-off and bearing of sins in that the Kohen Gadol lifts up the sins of the people, from off of them, but only so as to place the sins of the people upon the head of the live goat which is then to be sent away, (aphiemi) into the desert-wilderness to/for Azazel. According to the Torah the Kohen Gadol most definitely "sends away" the sins of the people but, that is to say, he sends them away upon the head of the twin goat which is to be provided by the congregation.
:sheep:
Atonement is not forgiveness or to forgive, but to be sacrificed for the redemption of another. That's exactly what happened when Israel as a People was sacrificed for Judah as a People. The evidence is documented in Psalm 78:67-70 when the Lord rejected Israel the Ten Tribes and allowed it to be taken away by the Assyrians so that Judah be confirmed as a People before the Lord forever in Jerusalem. (Jer. 31:35-37)
Already having moved on:
If you do not sabbatize the week you will not see the Father.
Shabbat Shalom, (a Shabbat in its Shabbat this hour).
If you do not sabbatize the week you will not see the Father.
Shabbat Shalom, (a Shabbat in its Shabbat this hour).
Yeshua Says: If you do not fast from the world, absolutely not will you find the kingdom of Elohim: and if you do not shabbatize [every day of] the week, you will not see the Father.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas/gospelthomas27.html
Seventh Hour Shabbat
Yeshua left Yhudah, and again departed into the Galil, and it was necessary that he pass through Samaria. He came therefore to a city of Samaria being called, (Hebraisti) Shachar-Dawn, near to the parcel of ground that Yakob gave to his son Yoseph: and the well of Yakob was there. Yeshua therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus by the well. The hour was roundabout the [close of the] sixth. There came a woman of Samaria to draw water: Yeshua says to her, Give me to drink, for his talmidim were gone away into the city to buy rations. The Samaritan woman therefore says to him, How is it that you, being of the Yhudim, ask drink of me who am a Samaritan woman? (for the Yhudim have no dealings with Samaritans). Yeshua answers, and says to her, If you knew the offering of Elohim, and who he is that says to you, Give me to drink, you would have asked of him, and he would have given you Living Water. The woman says unto him, Adon, you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep: from where then have you that living water? Are you greater than our father Yakob, who gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his sons, and his cattle? Yeshua answers, and says to her, Every one that drinks of this water shall thirst again: but whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up unto life eternal. The woman says to him, Adoni, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come all the way hither to draw. He says to her, Go, call your man, and come back here. The woman answers, and says to him, I have no husband. Yeshua says to her, You have well said, I have no husband, for you have had five husbands: and he whom you now have is not your husband: this you have said truly. The woman says to him, Adoni, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain, and you say, that in Yerushalaim is the place where men ought to worship. Yeshua says to her, Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Yerushalaim shall you worship the Father. You worship that which you know not: we worship that which we know, for salvation-deliverance is from the Yhudim. But the hour comes, and now it is, (for the seventh hour had come) when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such to worship Him: Elohim is Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth, (John 4:3-24).
:sheep:
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Yes, and the beauty of what came after.
Now we have heard from Him ourselves and do believe.
Yes, and the beauty of what came after.
Now we have heard from Him ourselves and do believe.
Yes, there are so many things in a single passage it would nearly be impossible to discuss them all at once. No doubt one could have seven or more threads going at one time discussing seven different topics all derived from the Parable of the Sower.
The latter portion of the John 4:3-24 passage solidifies the idea that the author speaks of the seventh hour Shabbat. It seems as if it is because the seventh hour was not actually mentioned, (only the sixth hour, John 4:6) that the author inserts the short story of the nobleman's son who was healed in the seventh hour, at the close of the passage, and this is the only place the short account is recorded:
John 4:43-54 KJV
43. Now after two days he departed thence, and went into Galilee.
44. For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet hath no honour in his own country.
45. Then when he was come into Galilee, the Galilaeans received him, having seen all the things that he did at Jerusalem at the feast: for they also went unto the feast.
46. So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum.
47. When he heard that Jesus was come out of Judaea into Galilee, he went unto him, and besought him that he would come down, and heal his son: for he was at the point of death.
48. Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
49. The nobleman saith unto him, Sir, come down ere my child die.
50. Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.
51. And as he was now going down, his servants met him, and told him, saying, Thy son liveth.
52. Then inquired he of them the hour when he began to amend. And they said unto him, Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.
53. So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.
54. This is again the second miracle that Jesus did, when he was come out of Judaea into Galilee.
If one realizes from the Genesis 1 creation account and Numbers 7:10-84, (the twelve yamim-hours in the yom-day wherein the altar was anointed) that a yom-day may also be accounted as a yom-hour then this section becomes absolutely critical to the chronology that is laid out in the Gospel of John; for one then must come to understand whether Yeshua spent two full literal days or rather merely two hours at the city of Samaria. It was therefore two full days because two hours later from the sixth hour at the opening of the passage could not have been the seventh hour of the same day when the nobleman's son was healed, (and again, this is critical if one is following the chronology from the first Passover recorded in John 2:13-25). In addition the above shows Yeshua once again healing in Shabbat but this time it is one of the seventh hour sabbasin, (the same is the "sabbato deuteroprotos" of Luke 6:1 which likely refers to Lev 24:8 and Num 28:10).
The Gospel Matrix
New member
Yes, unfortunately most all of us including myself must be nearly ground to powder before we will begin listen and learn, (the powerful pride of the holy people must be completely shattered).
Yeshua Says: Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the messengers which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take heed to yourself, watch and pray: for you know not when the time is. For the Son of man is like a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch you therefore: for you know not when the Master of the house comes, at evening, or at midnight, or at the rooster crowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you, I say unto all, WATCH! (Mark 13:30-37).
And the talmid is not only the house but he is likewise designated the porter, (with keys to the doors of the house) and is left in charge of the house while the House Master is likened as if away in a far journey. And the porter of the house is commanded to watch.
Yeshua Says: Watch therefore; for you know not what hour your Master will come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be you also ready: for in such an hour as you think not the Son of man comes. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his Master hath made ruler over his household, to give them their meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his Master when he comes shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if the evil servant says in his heart, My Master delays his arrival; and shall begin to smite his fellow house-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards; then the Master of that servant shall come in a day when he looks not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, (Matthew 24:42-51).
Who then are the "fellow-servants" of the household of every man?
Soul for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot!
Yeshua Says: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences do come; but woe to the anthropon-man-faced by whom that offence comes! Wherefore if your hand or your foot offend you, cut them off, and cast them from you: it is better for you to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into the aionion fire! And if your eye offend you, pluck him out, and cast him from you: it is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the fire of Gehenna. Take heed that you despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their messengers do always behold the face of my Father which is in the heavens: for the Son of man is come to save that which was lost, (Matthew 18:7-10).
Are any of the little ones lost before the times appointed? Perhaps these little ones are the fellow-servants of the household of every man: the eyes, the ears, the mouth, (with its little member the tongue which sets ablaze the fire of Gehenna) the hands, the feet; all of which belong to the Father in heaven. Five to the right and five to the left; three against two and two against three at war in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank my heavenly Father, for it is by the Testimony given through Messiah Yeshua the Master-Teacher. So then with the mind I myself serve Torah of Elohim; but with the flesh the Torah of an eye for an eye against my unseen enemies. Three evil shepherds I cut off in one year; a foot master, a right hand master, and the ever wandering evil right eye master always looking toward the profane; and my soul despised them, and their souls abhorred me. Then I said to them, I will not feed you: that which is dying let die; and that which is to be cut off, let it be cut off! and that which remains let her eat the flesh of her companion. So I disannulled the covenant I had with them in my members and cut them off as the Master says to do. As it is written in the Prophet: Take to yourself yet the vessel of a foolish shepherd: for behold, I raise up a shepherd in the land who shall not visit that which is perishing, or seek that which is scattered, neither heal that which is bruised, nor guide that which is whole: but he shall devour the flesh of the fat ones and will shatter their hoofs to pieces. Woe to the idol shepherd who leaves the flock! A sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened! The lamp which lights the inside of the body of the man is the eye: if therefore your eye be singular-focused, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!
He that has two ears, let him buy a sword:
He that has an ear to hear, let him hear. Chop! Chop!
:sheep:
I appreciate this post; at least what I think I understand of it.
What many have not yet come to face is that Christianity, with its 20,000 (or more) worldwide denominations, has utterly failed to fulfill the prayer of Yeshua as recorded in John 17:
11 I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.
22 The glory which you have given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one; 23 I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you sent me
After 2,000 years, why has the world still not come to belief? It is because the cognitive dissonance and ego-pride of those within the Body of Christ have caused them to fail to see that the massive division and in-fighting that has taken place in the Christian Church has butchered the true image of the Son of God, and made Him unrecognizable and appalling to the world.
Isaiah 52
14 Just as many were astonished at you (his appearance was marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men)
After 2,000 years, as we enter the 3rd day, there must be a mass-awakening (resurrection) to this undeniable Truth in order to avoid a dreadful consequence for the unbelieving world, whose blood will be upon the heads of those (Christianity) who have failed to unite unto Truth in order to bring the world to belief.
This is not trolling, nor is it "crazy talk." This is Truth that must be accepted by the masses of Christianity at this time. Christianity is the house divided that will soon fall, and the call is now being given to completely separate from the corporate mindset of the Christian institution which has mutilated the image of the Son of God before the world, causing Him to be rejected.
"Babylon" of course means "confusion." Or in other words, division and disassociation; unproductive disagreement.
Revelation 18
4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her [Babylon Christianity], my people [those who claim to follow Christ], that you have no participation in her sins, and that you don’t receive of her plagues, 5 for her sins have reached to the sky [2,000 years of scandals, atrocity, and division that butchers Christ's true image], and God has remembered her iniquities."
Shall we fall on the stone and awaken now, or shall we be crushed by the stone by remaining self-complacent and stiff-necked to the true condition of the Body of Christ?
We await to see what lies ahead in the waning days before us.
Hi TGM, well, I certainly cannot disagree with most of what you have presented. I only quote the small portion because my post is long. However those things which you quoted from my post I understand as supernal and internal. Every person is a treasure in an earthen vessel and the earthen vessel is clearly the body-temple in typology and allegory. It is not only about cutting off sin from our own hearts, minds, and bodies, but just as much about cutting off error and false doctrines from our own understanding. Incorrect doctrines are nearly impossible to discover within ourselves if one is not constantly in the word and the Testimony of Yeshua, and in prayer as we read and study, which is why false doctrines are likened to tares which the enemy has sown in our fields, (every devil has its doctrine).
But aside from those things you have also struck a chord in quoting Isaiah 52:14. Are you aware of what the image concerns in my avatar? It is the foundation Stone of the Temple which is now the centerpiece around which the Dome of the Rock was built. This Corner Stone is the Lion of Yhudah and as you can see the foundation for the southwest corner of the Temple, (the area upon which the Holy Holies was built) was carved into the face of the Corner Stone for the southwestern corner of the wall of the Temple at Yerushalaim, (I know there is eternal debate on the location so no need to debate it here; it is simply what I have come to understand in that area of study).
Likewise note that the eye of the Lion of Yhudah and Corner Stone in my avatar is singular: the eye was very likely the original location of the fountain of the Giychon spring, (an eye is also a fountain) which was probably rerouted in the days of king Hezekiah. In 2 Chr 32:30 we read that king Hezekiah stopped the upper watercourse of Giychon and brought it straight down to the west side of the city of David, (which is on the southern lowermost hill of Moriah to extreme the south of the Old City). If this be true then when Hezekiah changed the uppermost watercourse the well below the foundation Stone of the Temple dried up. This well is now called the well of souls and to this day the Muslims still hang a lamp down into the well of souls from the eye which you see in my avatar. I hope you see the symbolism in all of this because, no doubt, these things have bearing on some of the statements made by Yeshua in the Gospel accounts. The lamp-light of the inside of the body of the man is the eye, if therefore your eye be single, your whole body shall be full of light, (Matthew 6:22). It is a body-temple allegory in the first degree concerning the eye or fountain of Giychon, even though it had long been dried up and its watercourse changed, for the location of the eye would still have been seen just outside the southern wall of the Temple itself, (probably surrounded with a small foot wall for observation and protection).
http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/archaeology/well-of-souls/
The reason I mention all of this in connection with Isaiah 52:14 is because it was king Hezekiah who smashed the image of the brazen Seraph which Moshe lifted up in the wilderness, which came to be known as Nchushtan, because the people were burning incense, (prayer) to it:
2 Kings 18:3-6 KJV (Concerning Hezekiah - 2 Kings 18:1)
3. And he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, according to all that David his father did.
4. He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces [smashed] the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
5. He trusted in the Lord God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him.
6. For he clave to the Lord, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the Lord commanded Moses.
Who do you suppose it was that advised king Hezekiah to smash the face of the brazen Seraph beyond recognition? And how do you suppose the Prophet Isaiah knew that the visage of Messiah would be marred to the point of being unrecognizable? Was it not Isaiah who prophesied in the days of Hezekiah? Yes, and even the events surrounding the sundial of Ahaz in the days of Hezekiah are written in Isaiah. Why then does Yeshua compare the Son of man to the brazen Seraph in the wilderness?
John 3:14 KJV
14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 12:34-41 KJV
34. The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?
35. Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
36. While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
37. But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38. That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39. Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40. He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41. These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
And what is the passage quoted so often where Isaiah saw his glory? (Isaiah 6:9-10).
Isaiah 6:1-2
1. In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also Adonay sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2. Seraphim stood from above for him: six wings to the one; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
The same word for Seraphim, (Saraph-Seraph) is used twice in the brazen serpent passage:
Numbers 21:6-9 KJV
6. And the Lord sent fiery serpents [ha-nchashiym ha-Sraphiym] among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
7. Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord, and against thee; pray unto the Lord, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
8. And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, [Seraph] and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9. And Moses made a serpent of brass, [nchash nchoshet] and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent [nchash] had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, [nchash nchoshet] he lived.
We thus have not just one but two ways in which HaNavi Yeshayahu could have known that Messiah would be beaten and his face marred beyond recognition. They are the Corner Stone of the Temple, with the face of the Lion of Yhudah, whose eye is single and lights the well of souls inside what was originally the fountain-eye of Giychon, which cavity in the natural rock formation below is directly beneath the Temple Mount in the area where the Holy Holies would have stood. And the other way in which HaNavi Yeshayahu knew was by the face of the image of the brazen Seraph which Yeshayahu himself told king Hezekiah to smash beyond recognition, knowing that this was the symbol of the healing of the sons of Yisrael in the desert, in the Numbers passage quoted above.
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There is a serious problem with these postings. But the part about the train is interesting. You guys have a thing about trains. Do you hear the whistle blowing? It is right around the bend. The tracks are shaking. Box cars. Lots and lots of box cars. They don't have any windows. No sunshine in the box cars.
It is the music. Very soothing. They become sleepy. Can't focus on the surroundings. It gets softer. The lights go dim. And the door closes.
It's the music. They don't seem to care as long as they have their music. It had to be just right. Then the eye lids get heavy.
The conductor doesn't hear the music. He looks at the sign. The big green $ sign. It sings a different tune. But the train only goes one way.
What happens when the tracks run out and the music stops and the money fails?
Everyone gets a new name. And they restart the game.
It's the music. They don't seem to care as long as they have their music. It had to be just right. Then the eye lids get heavy.
The conductor doesn't hear the music. He looks at the sign. The big green $ sign. It sings a different tune. But the train only goes one way.
What happens when the tracks run out and the music stops and the money fails?
Everyone gets a new name. And they restart the game.