ECT Would MAD be more accepted if Gal 2:7 were not in the text
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
And now, the brilliant, humble, "Greg House" of TOL, saint(memorize that) John W, now steps in, to clear the fog, from the minions of satan, such as Clavinst witchiepoo Naggie, Christ rejector LALiar, and spineless Preterist con "man" Craigie, and protect the babes/sheep:
Not paying attention to details, and, consistent with Paul’s admonition to “study”(1 Tim. 2:15 KJV), can get you killed(Numbers...2 Sam). The secrets of the Holy Bible are in the details(Proverbs 20:5 KJV, Proverbs 25:2 KJV). Shuck your idol, your "the church" SOF("Statement Of Faith), and pay attention, to my brilliance, that the LORD God gifted towards me, and of which you are privileged to hear. Observe, as I eloquently explain, in humility..........
The body of Christ:
"For by grace are ye saved(present tense-my note) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: "The Holy Bible Eph. 2:8
"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved](future salvation-my note), even as they. "-Acts 15:11 KJV
Peter, one of the “12”,was addressing the Council in Jerusalem as they sought to answer the question of Acts 15:5 KJV, i.e., is it needful for the Gentiles to be circumcised and to keep the Law of Moses? In Acts 15:10 KJV, Peter argued that not even the Jew, who had the law ,could “bear” it. What hope was there for the Jew? Peter said, "we believe," i.e., we have a firm persuasion that salvation can only be attained by means of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Note “the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ”-details(see below).
Did Peter mean the same thing that Paul preached to the Gentiles? Would he have agreed with Paul when he wrote in Ephesians 2:8 KJV, "For by grace are ye saved(present tense-my note) through faith." Note Acts 15:11 KJV, carefully:
"We shall be saved, even as they."
(And watch serpents Tettie, Naggie, attempt to spin this)
We, the body of Christ, say we are saved-present tense. Peter said, "we shall be saved." For Peter, it is future. Now, let's look at details-the Holy Spirit is very careful in His choice of words-words do matter. The "we" refers to Peter and the fellow Jewish believers. The "they" refers to the Gentiles to whom Paul had been preaching. Notice that Peter did not say, "They shall be saved, even as we." Details. No. He said, rather, "We (Jews) shall be saved even as they (Gentiles).
When you study, and rightly divide this word of truth, there is consistency, and no contradictions. Study, survey, what Peter wrote in 1 Peter 1:9-10 KJV:
“Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:”
Notice-details:
"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:28 KJV
And-details:
“Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time……Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. “ 1 Peter 1:5-9 KJV
The body of Christ awaiting salvation? This couldn't be a reference to the Jews in the Great Tribulation, could it? Nah!-one church, one gospel, one inheritance(no distinction between earthly and heaven inheritance and reign), i.e., there is no such thing as different programs, as the prophetic program is equivalent to the mystery program! Peter was, of course, writing directly to the body of Christ! Follow Peter! Follow "Peter, Paul, and Mary!" Rock on! Maybe the Roman Catholics "got it right"!
When will they be saved? Peter said that when that grace should come their sins would be blotted out. When? According to Peter's message in Acts 3:19 KJV, it was to be "when the times of refreshing shall come." When will that be? According to the next verse, Acts 3:20 KJV, it is when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to earth:
“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:” Acts 3:19-20 KJV
In order for those under the law of Moses to be saved, they had to look for it. Many believers today cannot fathom a present tense salvation. We have seen that the law could not save anyone. But the grace of God does save and saves all who believe. Peter could not have written:
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins(present tense-my note)
." -Eph. 1:7 KJV
“And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you(present tense-my note) .” -Eph. 4:32 KJV
“In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins(present tense-my note)
:” -Col. 1:14 KJV
“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses(present tense-my note);” -Col. 2:13 KJV
“Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you(present tense-my note) , so also do ye.” :” -Col. 3:13 KJV
But Paul could, and did.
We have, as a present possession, redemption through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have, as a present possession, the forgiveness of sins through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. In Colossians 1:21 KJV, the apostle Paul, our apostle, penned:
“And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.”
Peter was speaking to those under the law, the Jews of Jerusalem. Peter said to them, "we shall be saved." They could not claim present tense salvation under the Law. But they were, because of prophecy, looking for a new covenant, the New Covenant, made to them, “the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah “, not the BOC, as stated in Jeremiah 31 KJV:
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. “ Jer. 31:31-34
Future, folks. This is not happening today.
Details-at that time God spoke to Israel through the prophet,
"..…I will forgive..…”, future tense, “.. their iniquity…, and I will remember…” future tense, “.. their sin no more."
The new covenant is concerning Israel, concerning the earthly kingdom of heaven on earth, as foretold through prophecy, by the prophetic program, not the mystery program. That was the future hope for God's chosen people, the house of Israel and the house of Judah. They could not claim salvation until God did it by means of the New Covenant.
Now, you can see, if you pay attention to details, the "grace of the Lord Jesus Christ" that Peter spoke about is different from the "grace of our Lord Jesus Christ" that Paul make known. One distinction, another detail, to be noted is that Peter said:
“the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ”
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ" while Paul writes, "the grace of OUR Lord Jesus Christ"(Paul only once says “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ”,2 Cor. 13:14 KJV, and prophecy only uses this term in one other place, Rev. 22:21 KJV-context). The grace which our apostle Paul refers to is personal, as you can see in Romans 16:20-24 KJV, 1 Cor. 16:23 KJV, 2 Cor. 8:9 KJV, Gal. 6:18 KJV, Phil. 4:23 KJV, 1 Thes. 5:28 KJV, 2 Thes. 3:18 KJV, Philemon 1:25 KJV and 1 Timothy 1:14 KJV, which is " And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. " Peter and the Jews were looking for that grace and through it they "shall be saved." For Paul and the BOC, He is our Lord and we belong to Him, bought with a price. Peter could not have written 1 Corinthians 19:20 KJV, and he did not. Paul did:
" What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.” The Holy Bible 1 Cor. 6:19-20 KJV
Yes, Peter wrote of the grace of God, but not as Paul did, if you study the details. Paul revealed God's grace as a present tense possession. Again, Ephesians 2:8 KJV says " For by grace are ye saved " while Peter referred to God's grace as a future fulfillment of prophecy , as in 1 Peter 1:13 KJV:
“Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;”
Read it-"that is to be gbrought"-future, folks.
For Peter and those under the earthly administration, the prophetic program, on earth, not in the heavenlies, grace was a future anticipation. For us, the body of Christ, who live under the dispensation of the grace of God, it is a present gift to be claimed.
To show the consistency of Peter, consistent with the prophetic program, notice 1 Peter 3:7 KJV:
“Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.”
The audience was Jewish believers, and were "…heirs together of the grace of life…" They were possessors of the unconditional promises of God,as foretold by prophecy. The kingdom of heaven would be given to Israel(not the BOC), established on earth and according to Acts 3:21 KJV is the "… until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. "
In Jerusalem, Peter was relating that which the prophets had foretold since the world began, i.e.,”.. the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow”-1 Peter 1:11 KJV. The Lord Jesus Christ came and suffered, but just where is the glory that should follow? Yes, there was confusion in the Jerusalem Council. Gentiles were being saved, and that without the priestly activity of Israel, and w/o obedience to the Law of Moses.
Gentiles were being saved. Peter said, "We (Jews) shall be saved, even as they (Gentiles)." The Gentiles were being saved by the grace of God-no dispute. Paul had a ministry from God, a special revelation, a unique message, which the Holy Spirit, through Paul, referred to in Eph. 3:2 KJV, as “the dispensation of the grace of God.” Thus, Peter, even in later years, did not understand that gospel, for he wrote in 2 Peter 3:16 KJV:
“As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
Peter could not fully understand the new revelation which was given to Paul, but he did admit that it was of the LORD God.
Peter knew about the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow – that was foretold in prophecy. But what about the time in between the two? During that time Gentiles are being saved; the Body of Christ is being formed. The law of Moses has lost its authority, and is no longer binding to Jew or Gentile. They are all concluded in unbelief that God can save some of them.
So what was Peter doing here in early Acts? He was removing the credence of the false brethren, the Jewish troublemakers who had demanded this Council. The law could now save, so why impose it upon the Gentiles? No one could ever obey the law, so how could the Jews expect the Gentiles to keep it? The Gentiles were being saved apart from the law, so trying to change this would oppose the dispensation of the grace of God.
For Israel, it was as the Lord Jesus Christ, who stated in Matthew 24:13 KJV, “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
In contrast, Paul states in Rom. 5:15 KJV:
" But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many."
Watch the emotional, satanic objections, by the Preterist punk, or the Clavinist punk-ette, as they craftily dismiss the above, with deceit, and "spiritual gymnastics/contortions"-watch. Or observe LAliar chime in, with her spam of irrelevant verses, and think, "That should do it."
Watch.
And all of TOL even the wolves/wolf-ette's, who are publicly braying like a jacka...., "Boo...Hiss....John W!," to placate their father the devil, are in awe of my brilliance, privately, and extreme humbleness...
Not paying attention to details, and, consistent with Paul’s admonition to “study”(1 Tim. 2:15 KJV), can get you killed(Numbers...2 Sam). The secrets of the Holy Bible are in the details(Proverbs 20:5 KJV, Proverbs 25:2 KJV). Shuck your idol, your "the church" SOF("Statement Of Faith), and pay attention, to my brilliance, that the LORD God gifted towards me, and of which you are privileged to hear. Observe, as I eloquently explain, in humility..........
The body of Christ:
"For by grace are ye saved(present tense-my note) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: "The Holy Bible Eph. 2:8
"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved](future salvation-my note), even as they. "-Acts 15:11 KJV
Peter, one of the “12”,was addressing the Council in Jerusalem as they sought to answer the question of Acts 15:5 KJV, i.e., is it needful for the Gentiles to be circumcised and to keep the Law of Moses? In Acts 15:10 KJV, Peter argued that not even the Jew, who had the law ,could “bear” it. What hope was there for the Jew? Peter said, "we believe," i.e., we have a firm persuasion that salvation can only be attained by means of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Note “the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ”-details(see below).
Did Peter mean the same thing that Paul preached to the Gentiles? Would he have agreed with Paul when he wrote in Ephesians 2:8 KJV, "For by grace are ye saved(present tense-my note) through faith." Note Acts 15:11 KJV, carefully:
"We shall be saved, even as they."
(And watch serpents Tettie, Naggie, attempt to spin this)
We, the body of Christ, say we are saved-present tense. Peter said, "we shall be saved." For Peter, it is future. Now, let's look at details-the Holy Spirit is very careful in His choice of words-words do matter. The "we" refers to Peter and the fellow Jewish believers. The "they" refers to the Gentiles to whom Paul had been preaching. Notice that Peter did not say, "They shall be saved, even as we." Details. No. He said, rather, "We (Jews) shall be saved even as they (Gentiles).
When you study, and rightly divide this word of truth, there is consistency, and no contradictions. Study, survey, what Peter wrote in 1 Peter 1:9-10 KJV:
“Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:”
Notice-details:
"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Hebrews 9:28 KJV
And-details:
“Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time……Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. “ 1 Peter 1:5-9 KJV
The body of Christ awaiting salvation? This couldn't be a reference to the Jews in the Great Tribulation, could it? Nah!-one church, one gospel, one inheritance(no distinction between earthly and heaven inheritance and reign), i.e., there is no such thing as different programs, as the prophetic program is equivalent to the mystery program! Peter was, of course, writing directly to the body of Christ! Follow Peter! Follow "Peter, Paul, and Mary!" Rock on! Maybe the Roman Catholics "got it right"!
When will they be saved? Peter said that when that grace should come their sins would be blotted out. When? According to Peter's message in Acts 3:19 KJV, it was to be "when the times of refreshing shall come." When will that be? According to the next verse, Acts 3:20 KJV, it is when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to earth:
“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:” Acts 3:19-20 KJV
In order for those under the law of Moses to be saved, they had to look for it. Many believers today cannot fathom a present tense salvation. We have seen that the law could not save anyone. But the grace of God does save and saves all who believe. Peter could not have written:
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins(present tense-my note)
." -Eph. 1:7 KJV
“And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you(present tense-my note) .” -Eph. 4:32 KJV
“In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins(present tense-my note)
:” -Col. 1:14 KJV
“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses(present tense-my note);” -Col. 2:13 KJV
“Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you(present tense-my note) , so also do ye.” :” -Col. 3:13 KJV
But Paul could, and did.
We have, as a present possession, redemption through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have, as a present possession, the forgiveness of sins through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. In Colossians 1:21 KJV, the apostle Paul, our apostle, penned:
“And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.”
Peter was speaking to those under the law, the Jews of Jerusalem. Peter said to them, "we shall be saved." They could not claim present tense salvation under the Law. But they were, because of prophecy, looking for a new covenant, the New Covenant, made to them, “the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah “, not the BOC, as stated in Jeremiah 31 KJV:
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. “ Jer. 31:31-34
Future, folks. This is not happening today.
Details-at that time God spoke to Israel through the prophet,
"..…I will forgive..…”, future tense, “.. their iniquity…, and I will remember…” future tense, “.. their sin no more."
The new covenant is concerning Israel, concerning the earthly kingdom of heaven on earth, as foretold through prophecy, by the prophetic program, not the mystery program. That was the future hope for God's chosen people, the house of Israel and the house of Judah. They could not claim salvation until God did it by means of the New Covenant.
Now, you can see, if you pay attention to details, the "grace of the Lord Jesus Christ" that Peter spoke about is different from the "grace of our Lord Jesus Christ" that Paul make known. One distinction, another detail, to be noted is that Peter said:
“the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ”
"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ" while Paul writes, "the grace of OUR Lord Jesus Christ"(Paul only once says “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ”,2 Cor. 13:14 KJV, and prophecy only uses this term in one other place, Rev. 22:21 KJV-context). The grace which our apostle Paul refers to is personal, as you can see in Romans 16:20-24 KJV, 1 Cor. 16:23 KJV, 2 Cor. 8:9 KJV, Gal. 6:18 KJV, Phil. 4:23 KJV, 1 Thes. 5:28 KJV, 2 Thes. 3:18 KJV, Philemon 1:25 KJV and 1 Timothy 1:14 KJV, which is " And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. " Peter and the Jews were looking for that grace and through it they "shall be saved." For Paul and the BOC, He is our Lord and we belong to Him, bought with a price. Peter could not have written 1 Corinthians 19:20 KJV, and he did not. Paul did:
" What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.” The Holy Bible 1 Cor. 6:19-20 KJV
Yes, Peter wrote of the grace of God, but not as Paul did, if you study the details. Paul revealed God's grace as a present tense possession. Again, Ephesians 2:8 KJV says " For by grace are ye saved " while Peter referred to God's grace as a future fulfillment of prophecy , as in 1 Peter 1:13 KJV:
“Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;”
Read it-"that is to be gbrought"-future, folks.
For Peter and those under the earthly administration, the prophetic program, on earth, not in the heavenlies, grace was a future anticipation. For us, the body of Christ, who live under the dispensation of the grace of God, it is a present gift to be claimed.
To show the consistency of Peter, consistent with the prophetic program, notice 1 Peter 3:7 KJV:
“Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.”
The audience was Jewish believers, and were "…heirs together of the grace of life…" They were possessors of the unconditional promises of God,as foretold by prophecy. The kingdom of heaven would be given to Israel(not the BOC), established on earth and according to Acts 3:21 KJV is the "… until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. "
In Jerusalem, Peter was relating that which the prophets had foretold since the world began, i.e.,”.. the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow”-1 Peter 1:11 KJV. The Lord Jesus Christ came and suffered, but just where is the glory that should follow? Yes, there was confusion in the Jerusalem Council. Gentiles were being saved, and that without the priestly activity of Israel, and w/o obedience to the Law of Moses.
Gentiles were being saved. Peter said, "We (Jews) shall be saved, even as they (Gentiles)." The Gentiles were being saved by the grace of God-no dispute. Paul had a ministry from God, a special revelation, a unique message, which the Holy Spirit, through Paul, referred to in Eph. 3:2 KJV, as “the dispensation of the grace of God.” Thus, Peter, even in later years, did not understand that gospel, for he wrote in 2 Peter 3:16 KJV:
“As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”
Peter could not fully understand the new revelation which was given to Paul, but he did admit that it was of the LORD God.
Peter knew about the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow – that was foretold in prophecy. But what about the time in between the two? During that time Gentiles are being saved; the Body of Christ is being formed. The law of Moses has lost its authority, and is no longer binding to Jew or Gentile. They are all concluded in unbelief that God can save some of them.
So what was Peter doing here in early Acts? He was removing the credence of the false brethren, the Jewish troublemakers who had demanded this Council. The law could now save, so why impose it upon the Gentiles? No one could ever obey the law, so how could the Jews expect the Gentiles to keep it? The Gentiles were being saved apart from the law, so trying to change this would oppose the dispensation of the grace of God.
For Israel, it was as the Lord Jesus Christ, who stated in Matthew 24:13 KJV, “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
In contrast, Paul states in Rom. 5:15 KJV:
" But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many."
Watch the emotional, satanic objections, by the Preterist punk, or the Clavinist punk-ette, as they craftily dismiss the above, with deceit, and "spiritual gymnastics/contortions"-watch. Or observe LAliar chime in, with her spam of irrelevant verses, and think, "That should do it."
Watch.
And all of TOL even the wolves/wolf-ette's, who are publicly braying like a jacka...., "Boo...Hiss....John W!," to placate their father the devil, are in awe of my brilliance, privately, and extreme humbleness...
This is either Preterist Craigie reading from his "Planetpreterist.com" SOF, or Clavinst Naggie's husband brushing up for her, from their "Deformed" SOF...
Dialogos
Well-known member
LOL.
Right then, go back to pathetic insults and one liners and leave the thinking to people who are actually equipped to do it.
:rotfl:
Amen - thanks john w - i can't understand why everyone doesn't see all of that clearly, when reading properly. frustrating, yes. fixable ? - :singer:
Stumped me there, Diablo, with that "pathetic insults and one liners" cliche. Did you "Yahoo" that, or "Bing" it?
Well, as Cliff Clavin would muze: Well ya see, Norm/members of the boc/TOL, it's like this... A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine.That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers.....you see, well, uh, urrr...........
Dialogos
Well-known member
Nobody cares… Or should…John W said:
:blabla:John W said:
Get on with it.John W said:
Yep. Peter meant the same thing that Paul preached. Wanna know how I know?John W said:
Of course he would.John w said:
Why do you think that because Peter chose to emphasize the future aspect of his salvation that he didn’t believe there was a present aspect?
See, you have noticed something interesting in the text (which I truly thought you incapable of, so cudos for at least getting serious for a moment) but you have come to an erroneous conclusion.
It simply does not follow that because Peter says he “will be saved” that he isn’t already saved.
How do I know this?
Because elsewhere, Peter emphasizes the present tense of salvation.
“For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us-- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
(1Pe 3:18-22 NKJ)
[/quote]19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us-- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
(1Pe 3:18-22 NKJ)
When does Peter say the answer of a good conscience toward God saves us?
The answer is “now.”
Need more examples? How about the one you quoted yourself?
Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexp ressible and full of glory,
9 receiving the end of your faith-- the salvation of your souls. (1Pe 1:8-9 NKJ)
[/quote]9 receiving the end of your faith-- the salvation of your souls. (1Pe 1:8-9 NKJ)
They were –present tense- receiving the end of their faith. Receiving is a present tense participle, not a future tense participle.
Furthermore, your attempt to try and make Peter’s message different than Paul’s message runs right smack into the dilemma that STP, Musterion and you have yet to address.
Peter said that Paul wrote to the same people that Peter is writing to in 1 and 2 Peter (2 Peter 3:15), Paul wrote to the Galatians and told them that there wasn't another gospel and that if anyone preached another gospel to them, they were condemned to hell (Gal 1:9).
So explain to me how Peter could tell the Galatians that they weren't saved when Paul clearly told them that they were?
Hmmm?
Mocking You
New member
I Liked it!
Translation: Assert...pound the podium..throw in a few "present tense participle, not a future tense participle" "the Greek" jazz, even though I, Diablos, wouldn't know the difference between a gyros, and a "Hebrew National," and a few "Blah,blah,blah's...,Get on with it" cutie sayings, that I, Diablo, picked up from "Seinfeld...Dating sites...," then spam irrelevant verses, grunt, snort, return to "Well, my church SOF never taught me that, so it can't be right" echo chamber.
Have a seat. I'm teaching.
"present tense participle, not a future tense participle"-Diablos
vs.
"Yep. ... Wanna know..Hmmm "-Diablos
Good one, clown. The punk talks like he just read "Teen Magazine," and he is going to "mow us down" with this "present tense participle, not a future tense participle" jazz, and teach us? Good one, Sparky. From what website did you get that "present tense participle, not a future tense participle" jazz? Let me guess-From "The University of Phoenix" "How to learn 'the greek' in 2 1/3 Days" course. Wow-we've never seen this "the Greek " game. You stunned us all, man pleaser. Adrenalin rush, eh? Get your fix? Yes...
As I predicted, the punk merely spams hos "one verse" spam routine, and thinks he is impressing TOL.
Genesis-Revelation.
See how that works, noodle/wimp?
You clown, loser. Get a job. And go back to your favorite show tonight-acting.
You loser, not realizing that TOL laughs at your "Darby" spam, which you litter, on every other "post."
Your satanic Preterist stench permeates this site. Leave, wimpy.
That is your only "argument," you satanic Preterist cultist.
And you still can't use the proper grammar, and spell, after all these years.
And get a job.
Last edited:
Dialogos
Well-known member
I looked for an actual substantive response to my questions and points in the midst of the tantrum to follow but didn't find any.
:idunno:
Bummer.
Let me racap then for those interested in serious discussion.
MAD teaches that Peter preached a gospel where salvation is not a present reality to those who believed Peter's gospel.
I said 1 Peter 1:9 disputes this, receiving is a present tense participle, your response?
John W said:
This is basically the theological equivalent to turrets syndrome. I don't know if this can be treated but I hope, for your sake, they find a cure soon.
You can vomit empty insults all you want, it doesn't change the fact that 1 Peter 1:9 speaks of receiving salvation in the present tense and is disharmonious with your fallacious claim that those Peter preached to did not have a present tense salvation by believing the gospel he preached.
Now, you can make light of how I know this all you like. But, it wouldn't matter if I got my Greek training from a free DIY biblical Greek study pamphlet that I pulled out of a box of Cracker Jacks, the bible still says what it says and isn't going to change because your theology can't accommodate it.
You won't dispute the present tense of the participle because you can't.
And, as I posted, this isn't the only scripture.
1 Peter 3:21 also says that the pledge of a clear conscience before God now saves you.
MAD says, not now, Peter says now. I beleive Peter.
An honest student of God's word will take a serious look at what the bible says and adjust their theology accordingly.
A student who is more committed to maintaining his or her reputation at all costs will find some way to ignore those troublesome passages so that they can get more little green rep points on their favorite theology bulletin board.
You get to choose what's more important to you.
I already have.
Finally, it is clear from the total avoidance of MAD folks in this thread that you don't have an explanation for 2 Peter 3:16 and I understand why.
Peter is clearly writing to the same believers that Paul addressed in Galatians and that's a problem for MAD because if Peter is preaching another gospel, then Peter falls under Paul's anathema for doing so.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
I looked for an actual substantive response to my questions and points in the midst of the tantrum to follow but didn't find any.
:idunno:
Bummer.
Let me racap then for those interested in serious discussion.
MAD teaches that Peter preached a gospel where salvation is not a present reality to those who believed Peter's gospel.
I said 1 Peter 1:9 disputes this, receiving is a present tense participle, your response?
This is basically the theological equivalent to turrets syndrome. I don't know if this can be treated but I hope, for your sake, they find a cure soon.
You can vomit empty insults all you want, it doesn't change the fact that 1 Peter 1:9 speaks of receiving salvation in the present tense and is disharmonious with your fallacious claim that those Peter preached to did not have a present tense salvation by believing the gospel he preached.
Now, you can make light of how I know this all you like. But, it wouldn't matter if I got my Greek training from a free DIY biblical Greek study pamphlet that I pulled out of a box of Cracker Jacks, the bible still says what it says and isn't going to change because your theology can't accommodate it.
You won't dispute the present tense of the participle because you can't.
And, as I posted, this isn't the only scripture.
1 Peter 3:21 also says that the pledge of a clear conscience before God now saves you.
MAD says, not now, Peter says now. I beleive Peter.
An honest student of God's word will take a serious look at what the bible says and adjust their theology accordingly.
A student who is more committed to maintaining his or her reputation at all costs will find some way to ignore those troublesome passages so that they can get more little green rep points on their favorite theology bulletin board.
You get to choose what's more important to you.
I already have.
Finally, it is clear from the total avoidance of MAD folks in this thread that you don't have an explanation for 2 Peter 3:16 and I understand why.
Peter is clearly writing to the same believers that Paul addressed in Galatians and that's a problem for MAD because if Peter is preaching another gospel, then Peter falls under Paul's anathema for doing so.
MADists disdain study of any kind. Their concept of studying "theology" is reading the KJV only, and revising it to fit the delusional presuppositions that God has imposed upon them for their lack of love for the truth.
Hopefully, there are many readers on TOL that can see through this MAD delusion, and I commend you for providing the excellent light of reason and revelation that counters this manifestation of lawlessness.
Nang
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Liar.