ECT Why Won't MAD Folks Address 2 Peter 3:15?
- Thread starter Dialogos
- Start date
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Nah, it just proves that Peter preached the resurrected Christ.
Obviously, he did in Acts 2.
musterion
Well-known member
That's clear to you, but Paul's plain statement of two concurrent Gospels in Gal 2 you deny as not there. Incredible.
it proves that THEY were preaching Paul's gospel, it was heard and believed 1 Corinthians 15:11 KJV - preaching this - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, and many other revelations from Christ, given ONLY to Paul -
atrol:Hi , and just tell us what 2 Peter 3:15 is saying , instead of BLOVIATING !!:dizzy::dizzy:
I am waiting !!
DAN P
You're asking a lot of him, Dan.
(keep it up :thumb
Hi and one had the nerve to say that 1 Cor 15:11 proves his BLOVIATING and than does not explain what 1 Cor 15:11 means and see that he is wrong !!
They like to quote the word , BUT can not explain what they read
dan p
musterion
Well-known member
They like to quote the word , BUT can not explain what they read
They got to check with Augustine first.
Same gospel to different people---
Gal 2:8 (For he (Christ) that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Dialogos
Well-known member
Hi Dan.
Is Bloviating your word of the week?
:chuckle:
2 Peter 2:15 is clear and doesn't need a whole lot of explanation for those who are willing to just believe what it says.
and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation-- as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, (2Pe 3:15 NKJ)
Paul wrote according to the wisdom given to him (meaning the gospel revealed to Paul) to whomever "you" is in verse 15.
That doesn't leave us with many options.
Either (1) Peter was writing to Jews and Paul had also written to those Jews previously according to the gospel God had given to Paul. Or (2) Peter was writing to gentiles and Paul had written to those same gentiles previously with the gospel that been revealed to him (Paul).
Which ever side of that fence you come down on, you have Peter writing his 2nd epistle to a group of believers who had been the recipient of one of Paul's letters wherein Paul had written to them according to his gospel (the wisdom revealed to him).
And that's a problem for MAD because, according to your theology, Peter shouldn't be preaching to gentiles and Paul shouldn't be preaching to Jews at any time prior to Peter writing his 2nd epistle.
Case pretty well closed.
The matter gets worse if the most likely scenario is true, which is that Peter is writing to Gentile Christians in the area (surrounding Galatia) and when Peter refers to Paul's writings, Peter is speaking about Galatians. This is worse because Paul anathematized anyone who would preach a different gospel to the Galatians.
No bloviating[b/] necessary. Just the common sense observation which says that if Peter reminds his recipients that Paul wrote to them, that's a problem for any theology which states that Peter and Paul have separate and distinct gospels.
Dialogos
Well-known member
Hi and one had the nerve to say that 1 Cor 15:11 proves his BLOVIATING and than does not explain what 1 Cor 15:11 means and see that he is wrong !!
They like to quote the word , BUT can not explain what they read
dan p
1 Cor 15:11 proves that Paul preached the same gospel as Peter and James; just pay attention to what the word says.
Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. (1Co 15:11 NKJ)
Who is the "they" of 1 Cor 15:11?
Context is clear.
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve.
6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.
7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. (1Co 15:3-7 NKJ)
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve.
6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.
7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. (1Co 15:3-7 NKJ)
"They" refers to Cephas (Peter), the 12, James, and all the apostles.
And "they" preached the same gospel Paul did?
How do we know? Because Paul isn't emphasizing who preached, whether it was Peter, or James, or the 12 or himselfl, the gospel was preached and the Corinthians believed.
so we preach and so you believed. (1Co 15:11 NKJ)
Whose "we?"
Its obvious given the context of the passage. Peter, James, the 12 and lastly Paul himself are those who preached the gospel. That is who who "we" is referring to in 1 Cor 15:11.
But this is nonsense if MAD is true because according to MAD there is no "we" preaching the gospel that 1 Cor 15 represents because Peter, the 12, James, etc.. didn't preach the gospel of 1 Cor 15 according to MAD, isn't that right?
So I have to choose between believing Paul or MAD.
I choose Paul.
musterion
Well-known member
Same gospel to different people---
Gal 2:8 (For he (Christ) that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
You skipped Gal 2:7, you disgusting false prophet murder-hearted fraud.
Hi , musterion , and they can not explain what the Greek ARTICLE means ?
The Greek Article " THE " is spelled 19 different ways !!
In Gal 2:7 it is called " THE GOSPEL of the Un-circumcision and is given to Paul !!
In the same verse Peter's is called " THE Circumcision " and the Greek Articles then means that there are TWO Gospels !!
#1 , One for Paul called a Gospel !!
#2 , The other is just called " THE Circumcision " and the Greek word for Gospel is NOT used for Peter , do you wonder WHY ??
#3 , Because Peter's Circumcision , is taking a Back Seat to Paul's and here Peter's , is Irrelevant , so much for Pentecostalism and the RCC , boo-hoo !!
dan p
musterion
Well-known member
You're going to have to break down those last two points, Dan, cuz they're good ones!
Gal 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person
for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Same gospel, different audience.
Do you really follow Paul?
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
LA
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Would death threats to fellow posters fall under malice?
Dialogos
Well-known member
No one is questioning your ability to amuse yourself. But I fail to see how that answers the question.
In acts 8 we see that the 12 stayed in Jerusalem.Dan said:
So?
Yup.Dan said:
Exactly.Dan said:
Paul did not preach two gospels, did he?
Is that what MAD teaches? That Paul had two gospels?
Uh, this is not what Paul actually preached to the Jews. This is what was errantly reported that Paul preached to the Jews but James urged Paul to go to the temple and observe the law regarding Nazarite vows (Num 6:1-21) in order to dispel those rumors and demonstrate that Paul himself was willing to be as one under the law (1 Cor 9:20 explains this clearly).Dan said:
"but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
22 "What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.
23 "Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow.
24 "Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.
(Act 21:21-24 NKJ)
22 "What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.
23 "Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow.
24 "Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.
(Act 21:21-24 NKJ)
1. I'm not a Pentecostal.Dan said:
2. You might want to take a fresh gander at Acts 21, you won't totally misinterpret it again if you take the time to understand the context.
3. None of this explains away 2 Peter 3:15, a scripture you keep running away from.
I think you've illustrated the meaning of this term quite nicely with your refusal to address my questions and your drifting off into discussions of other texts you then proceeded to misinterpret.Dan said:
Hi and we see that the Elders and James in Acts 21 , as the Holy Spirit , had Luke write , as you have showm that Paul would do anything to save the Weak , and became to the Jews a Jew , that I might gain Jews , 1 Cor 9:20 .
All we notice that God did not let Paul complete the Vow , as he was stopped by those that recognized Paul .
Many have accused Paul of many things , like being saved under Kingdom preaching , or Baptizing and preaching the Law of Moses , but can not make it stick !!
Only those who understand Eph 3:9 , To mke all see what is the Dispensation of the Mystery , and know that ONLY Paul was the only one " born out of DUE TIME , will understand Pauline truth , and you do NOT !!
Paul did not teach the Law after he was saved as Rom 1:1 as Saul/Paul was saved by Grace as Gal 1:15 .
Acts and is not for Novices as you can see and 2 Peter 3:15 and 16 does tell shows your mis-understanding !!
DAN P
All those who follow Christ must have their own head cut off in order to reign with Christ, first by the Spirit of the Lord and thereafter by men as you are trying to do because you can not help being what you are and you are refusing the first.
Get understanding.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
LA