Theology Club: Why Will No One in the Neo-MAD Camp Address John 3:16?

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry S needs to learn how to "Rightly Divide" the written word of God. That's
his main problem.

Show us that you can actually understand the Scriptures so we can know that you really have the ability to "rightly divide." Let us look what is said here:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Do you think that everyone who believed in the Lord Jesus in the first century was saved when he believed, even a Jews who lived under the law?

If you cannot answer that simple question then I do not think that you know how to "rightly divide" the truth found in the Scriptures.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry S do you realize there were two Messages being preached
during those times?

1) The Kingdom Message to the Israelite's
2) The Grace Message to the Gentiles

Which message did Paul preach when he went to the synagogues of the Jews?

It must have been the "kingdom message," right?

And what did he tell the Jews when he preached that message to them?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Again, he has his right to his privacy. Especially in this very real age of hacking we now live in. The less you post and or provide about yourself, the less can be gathered towards that financial ruin against you that some out in cyberspace live for, for their own ill gotten gain.

I would suggest you allow Jerry his privacy, and leave this at that. That is his business, his business alone, and his right to share or withhold.

Now, back to checking the guy's would be lording approach, and off-base reading into a thing we go :chuckle:

No one can compromise their identity by declaring what denomination
they're affiliated with. That's ridiculous. It's something I would like to
know and you have no right to tell me or anyone else what they can
ask and cannot ask. Is that not true? Unless you're a Moderator,
please don't tell me what I can and cannot ask. You're not in a
position to do so.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You jumped 11 chapters and strung the verses together.
Why would you do that?

First, I quoted Paul telling all those to whom his epistle was addressed that "we are all baptized into the Body of Christ" (1 Cor.12:13)."

Then I quote 1 Corinthians 1:2 so show exactly who Paul was referring to when he said that we are "all" baptized into one Body.

And the "all" who are baptized into the Body includes all those who call on the name of the Lord and none of the Jewish believers can be excluded from that category.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I think it's important to the discussing to know if someone is coming
from a Mormon, Catholic, cultist, Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, etc,
perspective. That's not being unreasonable.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No one can compromise their identity by declaring what denomination
they're affiliated with. That's ridiculous.

Not if you know that someone is wishing you dead. Of course are you are doing is given an excuse why you will not address what is the subject of this thread, which is this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Do you think that everyone who believed in the Lord Jesus in the first century was saved when he believed, even a Jews who lived under the law?

I think it's important to the discussing to know if someone is coming
from a Mormon, Catholic, cultist, Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, etc, perspective. That's not being unreasonable.

I will not mind if you want to stop discussing anything with me.

However, I might make some comments about what you say but I will not address those comments to you.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

First, I quoted Paul telling all those to whom his epistle was addressed that "we are all baptized into the Body of Christ" (1 Cor.12:13)."

Then I quote 1 Corinthians 1:2 so show exactly who Paul was referring to when he said that we are "all" baptized into one Body.

And the "all" who are baptized into the Body includes all those who call on the name of the Lord and none of the Jewish believers can be excluded from that category.

Chapter 12 is about the Body.

The greeting includes the church of God. Are you willing to say that the church of God was the Body when Saul wasted it?

I'm beginning to sound like Jerry.

 

[Danoh]

We need to know when they were baptized into the Body.
We were, when we believed. But the Little Flock already believed something.

Jerry needs to break all of this down for us, how it happened.

Your "branch" also has Paul preaching two gospels (in Acts) and then switching gears to a third (Post-Acts).

One of those, if I'm not mistaken, has Paul taking Gentiles out of their part in Israel's Promise, and placing them into the Body.

And I am sure I have worded that wrong, so feel free to pounce on it.

Jerry has what; Paul preaching two gospels in Acts? One to Jews, another to Gentiles - this second one having continued Post Acts?

Which is odd as that was not Anderson's view, it was more O'Hair's.

It appears Jerry's Twelve in the Body is more likely to fit your view than you concede.

Its why I said you and I are likely to differ on why Paul to begin with.

I find this all a challenging (in a positive sense) exercise.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Paul preached the "Grace Message" to the Gentiles.
Peter and the rest preached the "Kingdom Message"
to the Israelite's.

Today, in this "Dispensation of Grace" there's only
one Message being preached for eternal life and that
is, "The Grace Message. (Paul's Gospel) It provides
eternal life for both Jew and Gentile alike.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Not if you know that someone is wishing you dead. Of course are you are doing is given an excuse why you will not address what is the subject of this thread, which is this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Do you think that everyone who believed in the Lord Jesus in the first century was saved when he believed, even a Jews who lived under the law?



I will not mind if you want to stop discussing anything with me.

The "Grace Message" being preached by Paul was, God's Grace
received by faith alone. It was the message that was being preached
to the Gentiles. Peter preached the "Kingdom Message" to the Israelite's,
which included, faith plus works. Therein, lies the difference.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Chapter 12 is about the Body.

The greeting includes the church of God. Are you willing to say that the church of God was the Body when Saul wasted it?

I'm beginning to sound like Jerry.

Once again, you are changing the subject. I still await your answer to what I asked you here:

Of what "context" do you speak that changes the fact that Paul told every Jew in every place that they are members of the Body of Christ? ​

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Not if you know that someone is wishing you dead. Of course are you are doing is given an excuse why you will not address what is the subject of this thread, which is this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Do you think that everyone who believed in the Lord Jesus in the first century was saved when he believed, even a Jews who lived under the law?



I will not mind if you want to stop discussing anything with me.

However, I might make some comments about what you say but I will not address those comments to you.

You're not one of my favorites either.

 

[Danoh]

I think it's important to the discussing to know if someone is coming
from a Mormon, Catholic, cultist, Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, etc,
perspective. That's not being unreasonable.

Their assertions will give you their beliefs.

Case in point: a friend of mine asserts he is "not Pentecostal."

That he follows "Christ - Christian, get it?" he says to me.

His voiced views, actions, and reactions, are hugely those of the Pentecostals, however.

I ask him what type of assembly he attends. Not in order to know, for I don't need that. Rather; in order to point something out to him.

He gets quiet and says, "well... its Pentecostal, but I only agree with them 95%."

Written all over his face is the obvious; that he knows what he is actually asserting...

Did I need to know he attends a Pentecostal assembly before he told me?

No.

All I needed to know is whether or not he is walking in and or espousing the truth of, say, Galatians.

That book right there will right off tell you what you need to know about who you are dealing with is, as to these issues.

Be they Mormon, Roman Catholic, professing Mid-Acts but asserting 1 John 1:9, 10 as Body truth, you name it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Peter preached the "Kingdom Message" to the Israelite's, which included, faith plus works. Therein, lies the difference.

So according to your ideas the Jews who lived under the law were not saved when they believed:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Despite what is said here you say that even if a Jews believed he was not saved. According to your idea that Jew had to believe and do works. So, according to you, even if he believed and didn't do the works he wasn't saved.

But that idea is contradicted by this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

It seems as if you pick and choose which verses you will brelieve and which ones you will not believe.

Sad!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

So according to your ideas the Jews who lived under the law were not saved when they believed:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Despite what is said here you say that even if a Jews believed he was not saved. According to your idea that Jew had to believe and do work. So if he believed and didn't do the works he wasn't saved.

But that idea is contradicted by this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

It seems as if you pick and choose which verses you will brelieve and which ones you will not believe.

Sad!

It's just that, you don't know how to, "Rightly Divide" the written
word of God.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Their assertions will give you their beliefs.

Case in point: a friend of mine asserts he is "not Pentecostal."

That he follows "Christ - Christian, get it?" he says to me.

His voiced views, actions, and reactions, are hugely those of the Pentecostals, however.

I ask him what type of assembly he attends. Not in order to know, for I don't need that. Rather; in order to point something out to him.

He gets quiet and says, "well... its Pentecostal, but I only agree with them 95%."

Written all over his face is the obvious; that he knows what he is actually asserting...

Did I need to know he attends a Pentecostal assembly before he told me?

No.

All I needed to know is whether or not he is walking in and or espousing the truth of, say, Galatians.

That book right there will right off tell you what you need to know about who you are dealing with is, as to these issues.

Be they Mormon, Roman Catholic, professing Mid-Acts but asserting 1 John 1:9, 10 as Body truth, you name it.

We'll agree to disagree.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It's just that, you don't know how to, "Rightly Divide" the written
word of God.

"Rightly Dividing" has nothing to do with this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Do you know what the word "whosoever" means?

The Jews who lived under the law cannot be excluded from that category.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

"Rightly Dividing" has nothing to do with this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Do you know what the word "whosoever" means?

The Jews who lived under the law cannot be excluded from that category.

Do you realize that you're a pain in the neck? If not, allow me to
be the first poster to announce it to you?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Do you realize that you're a pain in the neck? If not, allow me to
be the first poster to announce it to you?

Do you not know what the meaning of the word "whosoever" in this verse means?:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

The Jews who lived under the law cannot be excluded from that category.

Besides, Paul made it plain that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith and if it is of grace then it is be of works:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Paul makes it plain that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace through fsaith but you said they couldn't be saved unless they believed and did works.

Do you not understand this simple principle?:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

 

[Danoh]

We'll agree to disagree.

That's fine too, brother, Romans 14:23