Why the Star of Bethlehem?

[Bradley D]

The original poster seems to be confused about the two visitations in Bethlehem; the first at his birth by the shepherds and the second visitation by the "wise men".
The first account has Jesus lying in a feeding-trough for animals and wrapped in cloth (believed to be the torn strips of cloth from the priests vesture, which were discarded), in the basement of the "inn".
The second visitation could well have been some time later, when Jesus was a toddler. Since it was Joseph's "home town", there is every reason to believe that the family had moved into more permanent housing in Bethlehem.


Nazareth was much farther north in Israel, at a "crossroads" or much traveled "junction" (trace the etymology of "nazar" or "natzar").

I believe the Magi came later. For King Herod had "gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi" (Matthew 2:16).

 

[Bradley D]

But nowhere in scripture does it state that the star guided the wise men to the stable in Bethlehem of Judaea, in fact it is said that the star stood over the 'HOUSE' in which Mary and her child was, and the term 'STOOD OVER' in ancient literature refers to comets and comets only.

King Herod the Great, did call his advisors who informed that the scriptures stated that the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem of Judaea, and he advised the wise men to go there in search of the child, but first he called them to a secret meeting and asked them when the heavenly sign that they believed had heralded the birth of the promised Messiah, had first appeared, See Matthew 2: 7.

When they left the palace of Herod, the star that they had seen in the east appeared once again, and rather than take Herod's advise, they travelled in the direction of the star to the north west of Jerusalem, until, late in the afternoon, they saw before them a small an insignificant hamlet, above which stood the comet with its tail streaming off into the heavens as it followed the setting sun, and appearing to stand over and pointing to the 'HOUSE' in which the Holy Family now resided.

When the wise men did not return to Herod and reveal the whereabouts of the child, he ordered the slaughter of all the male children in that vicinity who were two years and below, according to the time that the wise men had told him that they had seen the heavenly sign that had heralded his birth. See Matthew 2: 16. Almost two years ealier.

It does not really say where the "house" was. King Herod directed the Magi to Bethlehem.

 

[S-word]

It does not really say where the "house" was. King Herod directed the Magi to Bethlehem.

And nor do the scriptures say that the wise men followed King Herod's advise. What the scriptures do say, is that when the wise men left the palace of Herod, the star that they had seen in the east appeared once again, and O what Joy was theirs, and they then travelled in the direction of the star to where the child was, and we know from Luke, that 41 days after the birth of the Child Jesus, Mary openly carried the male child from Bethlehem of Judaea to the Temple in Jerusalem, (No slaughter of the innocents as yet) where she performed the ceremony of purification according to time as prescribed by the law of Moses, which was 41 days after the birth of the child, and after preforming the ceremony they returned to their home in Nazareth, long before the wise men could have travelled from Mesopotamia to Israel.

So if the star led them to the house where the child was, it had to be their house in Nazareth.

 

[beameup]

The O.T. reference to Nazareth is very difficult to find with any certainty;
however the reference to Egypt is very clear from the Old Testament.

And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene. - Matthew 2:23

And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. - Matthew 2:15

It is crystal clear that the family fled from Bethlehem to Egypt due to the threat from Herod to kill the child.

 

[S-word]

The O.T. reference to Nazareth is very difficult to find with any certainty;
however the reference to Egypt is very clear from the Old Testament.




It is crystal clear that the family fled from Bethlehem to Egypt due to the threat from Herod to kill the child.

Are you denying the scriptures, which state in Luke 2:21-24 New International Version (NIV) 21 On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise the child, he was named Jesus.

Jesus Presented in the Temple

22 When the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord 23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, “Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord”), 24 and to offer a sacrifice in keeping with what is said in the Law of the Lord: “a pair of doves or two young pigeons.”

When is the time for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses?

Leviticus 12:3-4 New International Version (NIV) 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised. 4 Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over.

According to the scriptures, 41 days after the birth of the male child, when the time came for the purification rites required by the Law of Moses, Joseph and Mary took him from the town of Bethlehem to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord.

Do you honestly believe that Mary would have openly carried her child from Bethlehem to Jerusalem, if there had been any great slaughter of the innocents in Bethlehem of Judaea? I think not.

Luke 2:39 New International Version (NIV) 39 When Joseph and Mary had done everything required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee to their own town of Nazareth.

In less than two months, from the birth of Jesus, the family would have been back in their home town of Nazareth.

The wise men from the east, after seeing the heavenly sign that had heralded the birth of the Messianic King of the Jews, even if they had left on that very day, could not have even reached Israel, until some months after the family had returned to Nazareth.

But we know that Herod determined the age of the children who were to be slaughtered, which was two years and below, in accordance to the time that he had learned from the wise men, when they had first seen the heavenly sign that had revealed the birth of the promised Messiah.

It was after the wise men had been warned to return to their own country by a different route than that which they had travelled to Israel, that Herod ordered the slaughter of every male child, in the district of Nazareth and Bethlehem of Galilee.

What a pity that you have never bothered to study the scriptures, rather than blindly accepting what some biblical ignoramus has told you.

 

[beameup]

.
It was after the wise men had been warned to return to their own country by a different route than that which they had travelled to Israel, that Herod ordered the slaughter of every male child, in the district of Nazareth and Bethlehem of Galilee.

:readthis:
Nazareth is in Galilee
Bethlehem is 6 miles from Jerusalem

What a pity that you have never bothered to study the scriptures, rather than blindly accepting what some biblical ignoramus has told you.

Look in the mirror :rotfl:

 

[daqq]

The real problem is thinking like historians and astronomers instead of first century writers and people. If any would take the time to read the Protoevangelium of James it is fairly clear that the star is an Angel, (seeing how the Star-Malak leads the Magi to the entrance into the cave, then stands over the head of the child, then warns the Magi not to depart by the same way they came, lol). This is precisely why I do not feel compelled to respond to the reams of carnage you keep posting in my threads, S-word, we are of two completely different mindsets.

 

[S-word]

:readthis:
Nazareth is in Galilee
Bethlehem is 6 miles from Jerusalem

Look in the mirror :rotfl:

If you had ever bothered to study the scriptures, you would know that there was a town called Bethlehem only 2 miles from the small and insignificant hamlet of Nazareth, that town today, is called Beitlahm.

According to Josephus, Sepphoris, which is only about 4 miles from Bethlehem of Galilee, which is now called Beitlahm, and a few kilometers from Nazareth, had a population of around thirty thousand and he called it, "The Ornament of Galilee."

Around the time of Herod’s death in the spring of 4BC, just after he had ordered the slaughter of the innocents around the district of Bethlehem of Galilee, there were riots among the peasants of the area in Galilee of which Sepphoris was the centre. Judas, the son of Hezekias attacked the arsenal of Herod in the city of Sepphoris in order to arm the peasants.

The Romans under Quintillius Varus of Syria, attacked and burnt the city, putting down the uprising in which many families died and others were taken prisoner and transported to Rome, where they were sold as slaves. But Joseph, with his wife and her child had escaped the slaughter by fleeing into Egypt.

All this happened in the spring of 4 BC, two years after the birth of Jesus in 6 BC, and two years and below was the age of the children that Herod ordered his men to slaughter.

 

[S-word]

The real problem is thinking like historians and astronomers instead of first century writers and people. If any would take the time to read the Protoevangelium of James it is fairly clear that the star is an Angel, (seeing how the Star-Malak leads the Magi to the entrance into the cave, then stands over the head of the child, then warns the Magi not to depart by the same way they came, lol). This is precisely why I do not feel compelled to respond to the reams of carnage you keep posting in my threads, S-word, we are of two completely different mindsets.

First of all, this is my thread in which you are posting your rubbish, such as the star that 'STOOD OVER' the 'HOUSE' where the child was then living, (Not some cave),was according to you, not a star at all, but some angel who guided the wise men who didn't even arrive in Judaea, until some 3 to 4 months after leaving their own country.

But how long after seeing the heavenly sign in 6 BC, that had heralded the birth of the promised Messiah, did they wait before leaving their own country?

We know, that Herod determined the age of the Children to be slaughtered as two years and below according to the time that he had learned from the wise men, when they had first seen the heavenly sign.

This angel of yours who pretended to be a star, who you believe led those wise men to a cave in Bethlehem, from which town the holy family had left only 41 days after the birth of Mary's child.

I hope that you have the mental capacity to understand Just how ridiculous your belief is.

Peter warned that we should beware of mentally unstable people who are ignorant to the truths as revealed in the scriptures, which they twist to their own destruction, the same way they distort the rest of the Scriptures. See 2nd Peter 3: 16.

 

[daqq]

First of all, this is my thread in which you are posting your rubbish, such as the star that 'STOOD OVER' he 'HOUSE' where the child was then living, (Not some cave),was according to you, not a star at all, but some angel who guided the wise men who didn't even arrive in Judaea, until some 3 to 4 months after leaving their own country.

But how long after seeing the heavenly sign in 6 BC, that had heralded the birth of the promised Messiah, did they wait before leaving their own country?

We know, that Herod determined the age of the Children to be slaughtered as two years and below according to the time that he had learned from the wise men, when they had first seen the heavenly sign.

This angel of yours who pretended to be a star, who you believe led those wise men to a cave in Bethlehem, from which town the holy family had left only 41 days after the birth of Mary's child.

I hope that you have the mental capacity to understand Just how ridiculous your belief is.

Peter warned that we should beware of mentally unstable people who are ignorant to the truths as revealed in the scriptures, which they twist to their own destruction, the same way they distort the rest of the Scriptures. See 2nd Peter 3: 16.

What comes around goes around. And you are continuing to post your reams of garbage in my threads after I kindly asked you to stop. We are just getting started. I have plenty more of the same to pile onto your head for hating me without a cause. So either stop derailing my threads with your mountains of garbage full of your opinionated self or expect the same treatment which you are currently dishing out to me. I'm going to go get my dump truck now, which is now full of your trash, and prepare to start dumping it right here.

 

[S-word]

What comes around goes around. And you are continuing to post your reams of garbage in my threads after I kindly asked you to stop. We are just getting started. I have plenty more of the same to pile onto your head for hating me without a cause. So either stop derailing my threads with your mountains of garbage full of your opinionated self or expect the same treatment which you are currently dishing out to me. I'm going to go get my dump truck now, which is now full of your trash, and prepare to start dumping it right here.

But I love you dagg, and I want you to continue to post your rubbish in my threads, in order that I can continue to reveal the truth as revealed in the Holy Scriptures, to which, you are apparently blind.

And I will continue to post in your threads, where I believe that you are spreading misinformation in a forum where people come in search of truth.

 

[daqq]

But I love you dagg, and I want you to continue to post your rubbish in my threads, in order that I can continue to reveal the truth as revealed in the Holy Scriptures, to which, you are apparently blind.

And I will continue to post in your threads, where I believe that you are spreading misinformation in a forum where people come in search of truth.

Okay, since you posted the following tripe in my thread, which has nothing to do with the topic of that thread, and since I asked you to start a new thread about why you deny the testimony of Stephen, and you refused to do so: please expound the magnitude of your magnificent theological wizardry here in your own thread:

And you believe the testimony of Stephen, do you?

It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone; but by every ρηματι proceeding out of the mouth of Yah. And looking intently at Stephano, all that were seated in the Sanhedrin saw his countenance as if it were the countenance of an Angel. Why therefore would I not believe his testimony?

Stephen, a Greek speaking Jew, of who it is said, was filled with the Holy Spirit, who had been dragged before the Jewish authorities by Saul, in defence of his faith before being stoned to death, stated in acts 7: 4, that it was after Terah HAD DIED that his son Abraham obeyed God’s command and went to live in the land of Canaan.

But the record in Genesis makes it plain that after Terah had turned 70 not 75 or 80, he became the father of Abraham, Nahor, and Haran, and that Abraham was 75 when he travelled to Canaan, leaving his father with his younger brother “Nahor,” and that his father died at the age of 205, 60 years after Abraham had gone into the land of Canaan. Stephen‘s word’s here are seen to be untrue.

Stephen who was filled with the Holy Spirit also states in Acts 7: 15-17, that Abraham bought the grave site for Sarah in the land of Shechem from Hamor, whereas Genesis 23: shows that Abraham bought the grave site from Ephron the Hittite at Machpeleh east of Mamre, which is way to the south of Shechem. Again Stephen’s words are untrue.

It is also said by Stephen in the same verse, that Jacob and his sons were buried at Shechem, when in fact, it was only the remains of Joseph which was buried there, see Joshua 24: 32. Again Stephen’s words are untrue.

Jacob and his other sons were buried at Mamre and concerning the burial of Jacob, it is written in Genesis 50: 13, “They carried the body of Jacob to Canaan and buried it in the cave at Machpelah east of Mamre in the field which Abraham had bought from Ephron the Hittite.” Again Stephen’s words are untrue.

So if you believe the testimony of Stephen, you must deny the Words of the Lord.

Ah, I see, so it is you who does not believe the testimony of Stephano. And what is even worse is that you count the Masoretes and their pointed text as "the Words of the Lord", (translated into English I suppose), when that text came a thousand years after the fact; and you should already know better, seeing how most all of the apostolic writers quote from the Septuagint or a very similar more ancient version thereof which is no longer extant. I'm not interested in trying to rebut all of your claims made from a standpoint of disbelief. If you want to argue the validity of the NT writings please go start your own thread on that topic.

I am not arguing the validity of the NT writings, I'm here to confirm that they are correct.

Question...... How old was Terah when Abraham was born? How old was Abraham when he left the town of Haran and travelled to Canaan? How old was Terah when he died?

Could Stephen have been correct in saying that it was after Terah had died that God made Abraham move into the land of Canaan? See Acts 7: 4.

Most Christians seem to believe that if someone is filled with the holy spirit, they must therefore have all truth: Acts 7; proves otherwise.

Stephen was neither a teacher nor a preacher, but was a newly converted Greek speaking Jew, and because the widows of this group were being neglected in the daily distribution of funds, he with six others were chosen to handle the finances, and although he was filled with the Holy Spirit, he did not speak the truth because he did not know the truth, for knowing the truth has nothing to do with the blessings of the Holy Spirit.

The world is filled with wonderful people who are a blessing to the communities in which they live, and who are ignorant to the truth of God’s word, (Blessed are they who do not see, and yet believe) these people are not filled with knowledge of the truth that is revealed in scripture, but they are filled with the love the compassion and the power of the holy Spirit.

I say that all of your putrid understanding is just that, putrid, because you understand all things according to the natural and carnal man who walks according to his belly just as the serpent was cursed to do in the beginning. The fact of the matter is that you reject the testimony of Stephen; not to supposedly "find the truth" but because you cannot understand supernal things written in supernal and spiritual writings.

 

[daqq]

But I love you dagg

Hmmm, again, that old stench that exudes from the words of Evil.Eye. . .

 

[beameup]

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. - Micah 5:2
Bethlehem is about 10 kilometers from Jerusalem. The 2 Roman aqueducts supplying the Haram al Sharif brought water from Bethlehem. Bethlehem is the city of David's birth.

 

[daqq]

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. - Micah 5:2
Bethlehem is about 10 kilometers from Jerusalem. The 2 Roman aqueducts supplying the Haram al Sharif brought water from Bethlehem. Bethlehem is the city of David's birth.

The OP and I had some discussion on that too, in another thread of mine he has tried to derail. I even went and made a map for him, which he ignored, and likewise ignored all that was said:

Translate all that into modern day English and I might even read what you are trying to say.

Hmmm, really cannot do much better than that without forfeiting critical information. It is more like a study tool, for instance, you are familiar with the question of Emmaus and where it may have been located, correct? There are three or four different places generally argued, (and it is likely that none of them are correct), for in the OG LXX version of Genesis 28:19, for the city once called Luz, (which becomes Bethel), you will find the word Oulamlous, (ουλαμλους), which they say is by mistake; and then in later Septuagint versions you will find Lammaous, (λαμμαους). But what most are not aware of is that in Codex Bezea, at Luke 24:13, we read not Emmaous, (Emmaus), but rather Oulammaous. So rather than posting a cumbersome and lengthy write-up on this I simply posted the necessary keywords so that anyone may quite easily search those things out if they so desire. The same is true for Shiloh, (Shalem), and so on.

Emmaus was close enough to Jerusalem, for Cleophas and his son Simon to have walked to, and for Cleophas to have returned to Jerusalem that same day and reveal to the disciples, (Less Thomas Didymus Jude) that Jesus had risen and was recognised by Simon by the manner in which he broke the bread.

So which of your towns called Emmaus, do you consider to be that close to Jerusalem?

It speaks of Bethel which was formerly Luz. One does not get there walking sideways or across the land on a map. Think rather along the lines of the dream: angels ascending and descending, the ladder, what Messiah says to Nathanael in the context I quoted. It is not sideways on a map but upwards, Yerushalem above.

Perhaps you might eventually begin to talk sense. Cleophas and his son Simon, were not walking sideways, were not ascending or descending ladders, had nothing to do with Nathanael, but were walking to Emmaus some 11 kilometres from Jerusalem, when one of the risen body of CHRIST, walked with them, and was not recognised, until Simon saw the manner by which he broke the bread.

I will go get a wiki topo map and draw up a quick outlay, although I see you really do not care either way, but so that others might understand what I am trying to relate here; and I will edit and place it in this post below.

EDIT:

Original Wiki-Commons Credit

Mahanaim is the southern tip of the cities of Yair or Havoth-Yair, (Joshua 13:29, 30).
And therefore it is Yhudah beyond Yarden, (because of 1 Chronicles 2:21, 22).

Shall we dig into the Septuagint which proves this OP is engaging in buffoonery to make himself look smarter than God?

 

[daqq]

The OP and I had some discussion on that too, in another thread of mine he has tried to derail. I even went and made a map for him, which he ignored, and likewise ignored all that was said:

Shall we dig into the Septuagint which proves this OP is engaging in buffoonery to make himself look smarter than God?

That was because he posted this:

Bethsaida on the eastern side of the Jordan in the old Macedonian territory where it enters Lake Galilee, was the birth place of Peter and his brother Andrew, who was a close friend of Philip, who with Andrew, were the two men to who John the Baptist pointed out Jesus, the son of his cousin Mary, as the one whom the ‘LIGHT of MAN’ had chosen as the man through who he would reveal himself to the world; the man that he had promised Moses that he would in the future raise up from among the Israelites, the one who would come in the name of the Lord ‘Who I Am’ and speak only that which he was commanded to say by ‘Who I Am’ or JHWH’ the Omega and the Most High in the creation.

In Deuteronomy 18: 18; The Lord, ‘Who I Am/JHWH’ says to Moses----“I will send them a prophet just like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything that I command him to say. He will speak in my name.”

Did the people of his day believe that he was some God who had been born of a virgin? Of course not, the Jews who lived in the day of Jesus, knew that God had said to Moses that he would choose a man from among the Israelites and send him to speak in his name, and Peter in Acts 3: 22; verified that man to be Jesus the son of Mary, Plus the people of his day knew that he was the man that God had chosen from among the Israelites and sent to speak in his name, when on his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, they cried out: “BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.”

And I responded with this:

So it is more like so:

[08] The next day again stood Yohanan, and there were two out of his talmidim: and watching the Ι̅H traversing the midst, he said, Behold, the Amnos of Elohim!
[09] And those two talmidim heard him speaking and followed unto the Ι̅H.
[10] But the Ι̅H converted round about, and seeing them following he said to them, What do you seek? and they said to him, Rabbi, (which is to say, with interpretation, Teacher), Where do you abide?
[11] He says to them, Come and see! they came therefore and saw where he abode; and they abode with him that day, the hour being the tenth.
[12] Andreo the brother of Shimon Rock was one from the two that had heard alongside Yohanan, and that had followed him:
[13] He first found his own brother Shimon, and said to him, We have found the Meshiah, (Χ̅Ρ, which is anointed one, or one anointed, or the Messiah who is the very Anointing), and he led him to the Ι̅H.
[14] Looking at him the Ι̅H said, You are Shimon the son of Yohanan: you shall be called Kepha, (which when having been converted is Petro, which is also like Kepha, meaning Rock).
[15] The next day he desires to go forth into the Galili, and he finds Philippo, (which is to say, with interpretation, Fond of Horses, that is, the Horsemen), and the Ι̅H says to him, Follow me!
[16] Moreover Philippo was from Beth-Saida; out of the city of Andreo and Kepha.
[17] Philippo finds Nathanael the Kana-ania, (for he is from Kana of the Galili), and says to him, We have found who Moshe wrote of in the Torah, also the Prophets, Ι̅H son of Yoseph from Nazaret.
[18] Nathanael says to him, Can there be any good from Nazaret? Philippo says to him, Come and see!
[19] The Ι̅H sees the Nathanael coming to him, and says concerning him, Behold, an Yisraeli indeed in whom there is no deceit!
[20] Nathanael says to him, From where do you know me? the Ι̅H answers and says to him, Before Philippo summoned you, being under the sukkah-fig, I knew you.
[21] Nathanael answers him, Rabbi, you are the Son of Elohim? you are Sovereign of Yisrael?
[22] The Ι̅H answers and says to him, Because I said to you that I knew you from under the sukkah-fig, you are convinced? you shall see greater things than these!
[23] And he said to him, Amen-amen, (for He and he are the Amen-amen), I say to you, You shall see the heavens opened up and the Malakim of Elohim ascending and descending concerning the Son of Man.
[24] This again was in Beth-Ania beyond Yarden, which is Bethel, the same which of ancient time was called Luz, and Ulamluz, and Oulamlous, and Oulammaous which is also Emmaus:
[25] The same is Mahanaim, the double encampment of the hosts of Elohim, and Penuel, the place where the sun rose up in Yisrael as he crossed the Yarden River at the Yabbok ford.
[26] And Mahanaim is a hamlet of the small towns of Yair, son of Segub, son of Hezron, son of Pharez, son of Yhudah, (and therefore it is said, Yhudah beyond Yarden, for Hezron went in to the daughter of Machir).
[27] In the circumjacent hippodrome region are the city of Adam, Sukkoth, and Zarethan-Nazareth, (not the same Gen-Netsaret in the sides of the north, around Lake Kinnerot, north of Yam Kinneret).
[28] And the third day there was a wedding feast with Kana of Nathanael of the Galili; and the mother of Ι̅H was there, as it is written concerning our covenant mother, Yerushalem above:
[29] Rejoice, O barren, you who did not bear; break forth and cry out, you who travailed not: for the desolate has many more offspring than she that has an husband.
[30] Broaden the place of your ohel-tent, they shall stretch forth the curtains of your mishkanot-habitations; spare not in the lengthening of your cords, and the strengthening of your stakes:
[31] For you shall spread abroad to the right and to the left, and your seed shall inherit the nations, and cause the desolate cities to be inhabited, (for of old the Mishkan was at Shiloh, that is, Shalem, Salem, Selom, Salein, and Saleim next to Aenon, in the Adamah hippodrome-circle of Arabah Yarden).
[32] Likewise the Ι̅H and his talmidim were also called to the wedding feast: and when they fell short of wine, the mother of the Ι̅H says to him, They have no wine!
[33] The Ι̅H says to her, Woman, what is that to me and you? my hour has not yet come! His mother says to the attendants, Do whatsoever he tells you to do.
[34] Moreover there were six stone cisterns stationed thereby, after the manner of the purifications of the Yhudim, containing two or three measures apiece, (behold, they were not emptied of their contents).
[35] The Ι̅H says to them, Fill back up the cisterns with water, and they filled them up to the brim.
[36] And he said to them, Draw out now and bear it to the governor of the feast: and so they did.
[37] And when the governor of the feast had tasted the water become wine, and not knowing from where it came, (though the servants having drawn the water knew), the governor called the groom:
[38] And he said to him, Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine, and when they have drank, then the lesser quality: but you have kept the good wine until now!
[39] This beginning of signs the Ι̅H performed in Kana of Nathanael of the Galili, and manifested his glory, and his talmidim put their trust in him.

So one is named Ι̅H, and one is the Ι̅H, (and those are not identical names, though they two are one commencing at the immersion under Yohanan, (and thus the reason for the so-called Nomina Sacra)). And of course Beth-Ania has the meaning, House of Affliction, (עניה), as it is written concerning Yerushalem above in haNavi Yeshayah in several places, ("O thou afflicted").

And this:

Says ΙΑΩΑ Elohim the Almighty: I am the ΩΑ
Yeshayah-Isa 41:4, 43:10, 43:13, 46:4, 48:12, 52:6
(אני הוא [1QIsa^a — אני הואה])

See also Trigrammaton:
4Q120, Codex Marchalianus, Vat.Gr.2125

There is a Beth-Saida Philippi just south of Caesarea Philippi, which is not on the shore of Yam Kinneret but rather on the shore of the little lake in the sides of the north, that is the twin lake also shaped like a harp, which is Kinnerot, (also called the waters of Merom and, by some, the sea of Merom). That one was in Gen-Netsaret, (Γεννησαρετ), the garden-circle of Nazara. Moreover there is a hippodrome "horse-course" wherein also there is another Beth-Lehem, (cf. Genesis 48:7 LXX-Septuagint), which is not meant to be a literal man-made horse racing track, like what the Herods built, but rather simply means a circle or circuit. As one might see, (depending on how one reads), Genesis 48:7 easily speaks of that Beth-Lehem which is in the circle or hippodrome containing Mahanaim, Penuel, Bethel-Luz-Emmaus, Sukkot, and so on, (sixty stadia: a hippodrome, circle, or circuit outside of Yerushalem, for it is in Arabah Yarden encircling the area of the Yabbok ford).

And therefore the map which you see in my previous post.

 

[daqq]

This also will be placed in your own dumpster thread.

It was the Angel of the Lord speaking to the Jewish governing people.

not Steven.

Carry on.

So, according to you, it was the angel who lied and said that Abraham did not enter Canaan until his Father Terah died at the age of 205, which would mean that Abraham who was born when Terah was 70, was 135 when he went into the land of Canaan, and not 75 years old as stated in the scriptures, and that his son Isaac was born 35 years before his father 'Abraham', even went into the land of Canaan.

And you believe that it was the angel and not Stephen who lied, when he said that Jacob and all his sons were buried in Shechem, when in the Holy Scriptures it is written in Genesis 50: 13, “They carried the body of Jacob to Canaan and buried it in the cave at Machpelah east of Mamre in the field which Abraham had bought from Ephron the Hittite.”

The angel that you speak of must have been Satan the father of all lies, am I correct?

So now you say that Satan spoke through Stephen? am I correct?
Yes, that appears to be what you are saying.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

In reference to Hanna/Anna the mother of Mary, who nursed the baby Jesus before Mary performed the ceremony of purification, it is said that Anna was a prophetess who earnestly hoped for the coming of the Messiah, she was an old woman of 84 and had been a widow for seven years, never remarrying, but remaining in her parthenia="Unmarried and sexually chaste state, ect." She was a parthenos, but no way in the world does that mean that she was a virgin."

So how yuh reckon she would have been able to suckle Jesus?:kookoo:

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Hmmm, again, that old stench that exudes from the words of Evil.Eye. . .

:cheers: :smokie:

 

[S-word]

Okay, since you posted the following tripe in my thread, which has nothing to do with the topic of that thread, and since I asked you to start a new thread about why you deny the testimony of Stephen, and you refused to do so: please expound the magnitude of your magnificent theological wizardry here in your own thread:











I say that all of your putrid understanding is just that, putrid, because you understand all things according to the natural and carnal man who walks according to his belly just as the serpent was cursed to do in the beginning. The fact of the matter is that you reject the testimony of Stephen; not to supposedly "find the truth" but because you cannot understand supernal things written in supernal and spiritual writings.

And so you deny the words of the Lord, which state that Abraham was born after Terah had turned 70; see Genesis 11: 26. And that Terah Died in the town of Haran at the age of 205, see Genesis 11: 32; which means that if Stephen was correct in saying in Acts 7: 4; that it was after his father had died that God told Abraham, to move into the land of Canaan, who by the time his father died, would have been 135 years old, and as Isaac was born when Abraham was 100, if Stephen was telling the truth, Isaac would have been born in the town of Haran, 35 years before Abraham had even moved to Canaan.

Only one who is totally ignorant to the Holy Scriptures would believe for one moment that Stephen was telling the truth in saying that it was after Terah had died, that God moved the75 year old Abraham, to move into the land of Canaan, but apparently you believe that Stephen was telling the truth.

So why would you call my understanding of the words of the Lord 'PUTRID' when my understanding is in total agreement with the Holy Scriptures. Terah was 70 when he sired Abraham, he left the city of Ur where he had been high priest, after his son Haran had died there. He then moved his family to a town in what is today Turkey, and named that town Haran, where at the age of 75, Abraham moved to the land of Canaan, leaving his 145 year old father with his younger brother Nahor, who then died 60 years later at the age of 205.

The truth as revealed in the words of the Holy Scriptures, may be a putrid stench to your nostrils, But to myself, the truth of the words recorded in scripture has the sweetest Aroma of all, a distinctive intangible quality, that only the seekers of truth can experience.

Here I have expounded the magnitude of my magnificent theological wizardry, which is the simple truth as recorded in Scripture, to which Stephen and yourself are totally ignorant.

But please do continue to post your rubbish in my threads, that is of course, if you wish to be continually embarrassed, by having your ignorance to the Holy Scriptures revealed.