Why the Star of Bethlehem?
- Thread starter S-word
- Start date
What evidence are you speaking from?
Where is it written or implied that the star led them to Nazareth of Galilee?
beameup
New member
Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the city of King David's birth.
The family then fled to Egypt to avoid the wrath of Herod.
Then the family returned to Israel and settled in Nazareth.
Jesus was born in 6 BC, in Bethlehem of Judaea, after which, Joseph took his fiancée and her child back to Nazareth, which was only some two miles from the Galilean town of Bethlehem, which today, is called 'Beitlahm.' Then in 4 BC, after the wise men had come in search of the child that had been born to be the King of the Jews, it was then that they fled into Egypt.
Lukes gospel speaks of the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem of Judaea, and of the shepheard visiting the child which was circumcised when it was 8 days old, then 33 days after that, when the time came for Mary to perform the ceremony of purification according to the law of Moses, she took the child to the temple in Jerusalem, and after performing everything according to the law of Moses, the family returned to their house in Nazareth.
Luke then skips to the time when Jesus was about 12 years old, where his parents who were searching for him, finally found him in the temple astounding the priests with his knowledge of the scriptures; the OT.
Mathew tells of how the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem of Judaea occurred in order to make what the Lord had said through his prophet Isaiah come true, and that was, that an unmarried female, (Not a Virgin) would bear a son out of wedlock and yet he would be the earthly host body that the Lord our saviour would fill with his spirit in order to reveal himself to us: Immanuel=God is with us.
Matthew then skips forward to over 12 months after the birth of Jesus, when the Magi, who had witnessed what they believed to be the heavenly sign that was to herald the birth of the Jewish Messiah, were to later follow a comet/hairy star, from Mesopotamia to Jerusalem, then up to Nazareth, to pay homage to the child that was born to be the King of the Jews.
beameup
New member
Herod died in 4 B.C. and that is a matter of historical record.
Thus, the "wise men" had to visit prior to that and bring tremendous
wealth with them as gifts, which permitted the family to flee to safety in Egypt.
When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. - Matthew 2:14-15
PS This could have occurred when Jesus was old enough for a long journey (ie: around 5 B.C.).
beameup
New member
The Septuagint, the B.C. Greek translation of the Old Testament, renders Isaiah 7:11 "virgin" as parthenos, which is ABSOLUTELY a VIRGIN (either male or female) that has zero sexual experience.
As well, a Hebrew couple were considered MARRIED, via a sacred ceremony, but did not come together to actually live together for one year, and were not permitted to have intimate relationships during this one year period.
As was the case with Adam, it was God that provided (created) the DNA. That DNA was created within Mary, which resulted in Yeshua Messiah. Hence, Jesus is called "the second Adam".
WAS MARY REALLY A VIRGIN?"Yes! Right up until the act by which she conceived her firstborn son Jesus, who was sired by Joseph ben Heli."
Isaiah 7: 14; Jewish Translation: Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, "THE YOUNG WOMAN" is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel."
Isaiah 7: 14; ERRONEOUS King James Translation: Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the "VIRGIN" shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel."
The Greek word Parthenos used in Matthew 1:23 ; is ambiguous but the Hebrew term "Almah" that is erroneously translated in some Christian bibles as "virgin" is absolute, and according to Young"s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, the Hebrew term "Almah," carries the meaning, (Concealment---unmarried female.)"
Go to "A Dictionary of Biblical Tradition in English Literature," by David Jeffery."
There you will find written, "Many scholars consider the new Revised Standard Version of the King James translation, which is probably the most widely used version of the English bible today, and considered by most modern scholars to be to be the most accurate translation of the Old Testament. It follows the modern consensus in translating "Almah" as "Young Woman" in Isaiah 7: 14."
In 1973, an ecumenical edition of RSV was approved by both Protestant and Catholic hierarchies, called the common bible. As a matter of fact, I have in front of me, A New English Translation of the Bible, published in 1970 and approved by the council of churches in England, Scotland, Wales, the Irish council of churches, the London Society of Friends, and the Methodist and Presbyterian churches of England. And what do we read in Isaiah 7: 14; "A young Woman is with child, and she will bear a son." I also have before me The Good News Bible, catholic Study Edition, with imprimatur by Archbishop John Whealon: and on turning to Isaiah 7: 14; It says here, "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc."" The catholic church now admit that Isaiah never did say that a "VIRGIN" would conceive and bear a son, etc.
In translating the Hebrew words of the prophet Isaiah, that an "Almah" an "unmarried female" is with child and will bear a son," into Greek, which unlike the Hebrew language, does not have a specific term for "virgin," the authors of the Septuagint and Matthew correctly used the Greek word "Parthenos," which carries a basic meaning of "girl," or unmarried youth, and denotes "virgin" only by implication."
When Mary, the young "PARTHENOS=UNMARRIED FEMALE" said that she had never known a man, The implication was, that she was still a virgin at that particular time, until 3 to 4 months later when she became pregnant to her half Brother, Joseph the son Alexander Helios/Heli.
A more accurate rendering of the Greek "parthenos" is a person who does not have a regular sexual partner, a widow with a family of children, would be a "parthenos"."
In reference to Hanna/Anna the mother of Mary, who nursed the baby Jesus before Mary performed the ceremony of purification, it is said that Anna was a prophetess who earnestly hoped for the coming of the Messiah, she was an old woman of 84 and had been a widow for seven years, never remarrying, but remaining in her parthenia="Unmarried and sexually chaste state, ect." She was a parthenos, but no way in the world does that mean that she was a virgin."
To translate something from the Hebrew to the Greek, or from any language to another, one must not lose the essence of the original, and the original was, that "A young woman was with child. "Therefore, as the greater majority of churches now admit, that the words of Isaiah, were, "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc." Matthew 1: 23; should now read, "Now all this happened to make come true "WHAT THE LORD HAD SAID THROUGH ISAIAH," "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc." Because they all now admit that those were the words of Isaiah 7: 14."
The Septuagint was a translation of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek, by Hebrews in Alexandria, LONG before the days of Jesus and they like Matthew, were forced to use the Greek term, "Parthenos" in translating the Hebrew "Almah" Because there was no other word in that Language that they could use for maiden, or young girl, etc."
"Parthenos," was often used in reference to non-virgins who had never been married. Homer uses it in reference to unmarried girls who were no longer virgins, and Homer was the standard textbook for learning Greek all throughout antiquity, so any writer of Greek, including Matthew, who translated Isaiah"s words, that (An unmarried woman would be with child etc) while being well aware of this words versatile and indefinite meaning; was in no way implying that Mary was a virgin."
For the Hebrew has a specific term for "virgin," "Bethulah" which word is used in every instance in the Old Testament where a woman who has never had sexual intercourse with a man is referred to, which word, 'BETHULAH' Isaiah would have used, if it was the Lords intention to convey the message that a bethulah/virgin would bear a child, which is obviously not the case with the unmarried woman/Almah, who is mentioned in Isaiah 7:14."
In Pergamos, as one of the final stages in the quest for enlightenment, the initiated adept would participate in sex with the Temple Virgin/Parthenos."
"Parthenos" did not mean possessing an intact hymen. A parthenos was simply an unmarried woman, a woman who claimed ownership of herself."
beameup
New member
Nope.
Been reading a lot of Gnostic writings huh?
In the Genesis account of Rebekah, when she lived in her father's house in Ur of the Chaldeans, all three words for "virgin" are used... almah, na'arah, bethulah interchangeable.
The Septuagint was translated from Hebrew to Koine Greek in the 3rd & 4th Century B.C. by the finest scribes available (70). They knew perfectly well that the Isaiah reference was to a "closed vagina" with hymen intact. Parthenos applies to a male or female with NO sexual experience whatsoever - look it up in a reliable lexicon.
http://jewsforjesus.org/publications/issues/issues-v09-n01/almah-virgin-or-young-maiden/
But nowhere in scripture does it state that the star guided the wise men to the stable in Bethlehem of Judaea, in fact it is said that the star stood over the 'HOUSE' in which Mary and her child was, and the term 'STOOD OVER' in ancient literature refers to comets and comets only.
King Herod the Great, did call his advisors who informed that the scriptures stated that the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem of Judaea, and he advised the wise men to go there in search of the child, but first he called them to a secret meeting and asked them when the heavenly sign that they believed had heralded the birth of the promised Messiah, had first appeared, See Matthew 2: 7.
When they left the palace of Herod, the star that they had seen in the east appeared once again, and rather than take Herod's advise, they travelled in the direction of the star to the north west of Jerusalem, until, late in the afternoon, they saw before them a small an insignificant hamlet, above which stood the comet with its tail streaming off into the heavens as it followed the setting sun, and appearing to stand over and pointing to the 'HOUSE' in which the Holy Family now resided.
When the wise men did not return to Herod and reveal the whereabouts of the child, he ordered the slaughter of all the male children in that vicinity who were two years and below, according to the time that the wise men had told him that they had seen the heavenly sign that had heralded his birth. See Matthew 2: 16. Almost two years ealier.
beameup
New member
The original poster seems to be confused about the two visitations in Bethlehem; the first at his birth by the shepherds and the second visitation by the "wise men".
The first account has Jesus lying in a feeding-trough for animals and wrapped in cloth (believed to be the torn strips of cloth from the priests vesture, which were discarded), in the basement of the "inn".
The second visitation could well have been some time later, when Jesus was a toddler. Since it was Joseph's "home town", there is every reason to believe that the family had moved into more permanent housing in Bethlehem.
Nazareth was much farther north in Israel, at a "crossroads" or much traveled "junction" (trace the etymology of "nazar" or "natzar").
Look it up all you want youngen, but the Hebrew term 'ALMAH' can in no way ever be translated as Virgin.
The Good News Bible: Catholic Study Edition: Proverbs 30; 19; translate the Hebrew term “Almah” as woman. “And a man and a woman falling in love.”
The New Revised Standard bible, likewise translates the Hebrew “ALMAH,” as “GIRL.” “The way of a ship on the seas, and the way of a man with a girl.”
From the KJV Genesis 24: 13; Abraham's faithful servant said; "Behold, I stand here by the well of water; and the “DAUGHTERS=banoth= daughters, descendants ” of the men of the city come out to draw water. (14) And let it come to pass that the “DAMSEL=yaldah=lass,girl” to whom I shall say etc.
How many of those unmarried daughters of the men of city were Almahs (Non virgins) or Bethulahs (virgins?) We don’t know, because the sexual status of those girls is not being referred to.
Now let us skip from Genesis 24: 13; to verse 16; In reference to Rebecca we read, “And the ‘DAMSEL=yaldah=girl’ was very fair to look upon, and was a virgin=bethulah= having never known a man sexually.
Here, Rebecca, the ‘DAMSEL=yaldah=girl’ is said to have never known a man sexually, and here she is referred to as a Bethulah, a virgin.
Please refrain from using the scriptures in your futile attempt to support the Lies of the Roman Church of Emperor Constantine and her denominational daughters who were spawned from her lying spirit/teachings, before breaking away from their mother body to establish families of their own.
BTW, It was not to the city of Ur, that Abrahams servant was sent to find a wife for his son Isaac, but to the town of Haran, where his younger brother Nahor lived.
You've got to study that bible of yours a bit better youngen.
Beameup, seems to be confusing the teachings of the Holy Scriptures, with the lying teachings of the Roman church of Emperor Constantine.
According to the scriptures in the Gospel of Luke, Jesus was born in a manger in Jerusalem, the shepherds came to visit him there, he was circumcised and named 8 days later, then 33 days after he was circumcised, when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished (Which was 33 days after the circumcision) they bought him to the temple in Jerusalem, (No wise men there and no slaughter of the innocents yet) and after performing everything according to the law of Moses, they returned to their home in Nazareth. See Luke 2: 39.
The wise men, who, in the east had seen the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, are believed to have been Astronomer/Astrologers from Mesopotamia. How long do you suppose that it would have taken them and their entourage, to travel from say, Babylon to Israel in those days?
We know from the Book of Ezra 7: 8-9; that it took him 4 months to travel from Mesopotamia to Jerusalem, having left on the first day of the first month in the 7th year of the reign of Antaxerxes and arrived in Jerusalem on the first day of the 5th month.
Mary and Joseph had long returned to the House in Nazareth, before the wise men had even got to the land of Judaea.
As it was prophesied, that an heavenly event would herald the birth of the promised Messiah, we must ask if there was any significant heavenly event in 6 BC.
"Astronomy, Astrology, and the Star of Bethlehem." BY John Clevenger of the Lake Country Astronomical Society," which says as follows, "Did any unusual astronomical phenomenon occur between 8 and 2 BC? As it happens there were several notable celestial events during that period. The Chinese reported two comets during that time. The comet of 5 BC which was visible for 70 days, was reported to have a tail. Professor Humphreys of Cambridge University believes that this comet, which he describes as having a vertical tail, appeared at the time of the Jewish Passover. Professor Humpherys believed that this started the Magi, who were knowledgeable of the Jewish prophecy recorded in the book of Micah, concerning the birth of a Jewish king, on their journey.
If right about the vertical tail, this could agree with the biblical account in Matthew that the "Star Stood Over" where the young child was". The comet of 4 BC had no tail and whether it was a comet or a nova is unknown. If it was a nova in 4 BC, which is the death of a star, it would have coincidered with the death of Herod the Great in that same year. While historians have usually suggested that comets were always bad omens. Humphreys believes that history shows them to be either good or bad omens.
I could also use any of a number of authorities to supply evidence of the 6 BC triple conjunction of the "King Planet" Jupiter, with Mars, the “God of War” and Saturn the “God of Time,” who brings the golden age of peace to the earth, which I believe was read by the wise men as the sign that was prophesied to herald the birth of the promised King, who was to succeed to the throne of David the warrior king, as the prophesied Messianic King of Israel, who is to come and subdue the surrounding Nations and bring in the golden Age of one thousand years of peace.
It was the comet of 5 BC, which was seen by professor Humpherys as the star that started the wise men on their journey to Jerusalem. Comets in those days, were called “Hairy Stars.” It was this star that guided the wise men who were believed to be Astronomer, Astrologers from the land of Mesopotamia to Jerusalem in Judaea.
The title "wise men" is translated from the original Greek word magos. The word refers to a priest of the Persian religion Zoroastrianism. These priests, or magi, frequently looked to the stars for signs of the future and gained an international reputation for astrology and revelation/divination.
It is more than probable that the "wise men" were in fact Zoroastrian priests from Persia. They obviously studied the old Hebrew scriptures. The Bible also states that when the magi found the child Jesus, they "fell down and worshiped him." This verse references or indicates bowing, kneeling or prostration, which was generally viewed by both the ancient Jews and Romans as undignified, and in Jewish tradition was reserved for their God alone. However, for Persians, bowing or kneeling was a sign of respect generally directed toward kings.
Having witnessed in 6 BC, the conjunction of the "King Planet" Jupiter, with Mars, the god of war, and "Saturn the god of time, who brings in the golden age of peace to the earth," which I believe was the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, because it appeared two years before the death of Herod the Great in April of 4 BC, and as two years and below, was the age of the children that Herod commanded to be slaughtered just before his death, which age was in accordance with what he had learned from the wise men as to the exact time that they had seen the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, which had to be around 6 BC. See Matthew 2: 16.
I believe that the Bible should only be interpreted by the scriptures themselves. The Books of the Bible are like wheels of interlocking cogs, wheels within wheels, here a little and there a little etc.
Luke tells us that Mary gave birth to her firstborn son in the town of Bethlehem of Judea, as opposed to the Bethlehem, which was about two miles from Nazareth in Galilee, which town is now called Beitlahm, and that eight days after the child was born, it was circumcised and named Jesus. Then thirty-three days later, and before the wise men from the east had come and lavished their gifts of Gold, Frank-incense and mire, on the baby Jesus, he was taken OPENLY to the temple in Jerusalem by his not so financial parents, where his mother performed the purification ceremony, in accordance to the time that the law handed down through Moses demanded.
And after they had completed everything in ACCORDANCE TO THE LAW, they returned to their home in Nazareth. Luke makes no mention of any wise men traveling to Bethlehem of Judaea, or of any slaughter of the innocents.
How do we know, even though it is not mentioned in Luke, that it was thirty-three days after the circumcision that the ceremony of purification was performed? Because Luke says, "And when the days of her purification ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF MOSES were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord.
According to scripture, the child was taken to the temple in Jerusalem for the ceremony of purification at the correct time demanded by the law of Moses, which was 41 days after the birth, immediately after which, the family returned to their home in Nazareth.
To find out when the days of her purification according to the Law of Moses were accomplished, we simply turn to Leviticus 12: 3-4; and let the Bible reveal itself to us: (3) On the eighth day the child shall be circumcised. (4) Then it shall be 33 more days until she is ritually clean from her loss of blood; etc.
How do we know that the parents of Jesus were not flushed financially? Again, we must let the Bible reveal that to us, Leviticus 12: 8, "If the woman cannot afford a lamb, she shall bring two doves or pigeons etc," the fact that the birds were offered, shows that they were unable to afford a lamb, and had not yet received the gifts of Gold, etc.
How long was it before the wise men, after seeing the comet early in the spring of 5 BC, which is believed to have been the inspiration for them to travel to Jerusalem, decided that they should go to pay homage to the heir of that throne, and to organize that trip? And how long did it take them to travel from Mesopotamia to Jerusalem?
The only help that we receive from the Bible is found in Ezra 7: 8-9; "They (Ezra and his group) left Babylonia on the first day of the first month, and with God’s help they arrived in Jerusalem on the first day of the fifth month."
Four months, it took them to travel to Jerusalem. Even if we halve that time and take into account that the comet which inspired them to travel to Jerusalem had not appeared until sometime after the triple conjunction of 6 BC, which had heralded the birth of Jesus, there is no possible way that the wise men could have seen the baby Jesus in the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea, as the family had returned to Nazareth 2 months after the birth of the child.
Traveling presumably, across the "Kings Highway" to Jerusalem to pay homage to the new King, they went to the palace of Herod the Great, the then current ruler of Israel, expecting to find there, the young child whose birth had been heralded by the heavenly sign of 6 BC, the young child that they believed was the Messianic heir to the throne of David, and they asked, "where is the child that has been born to be King of the Jews."[Has been born/past tense]
After receiving verification from his priests that the prophesied King was to be born in Bethlehem of Judaea, Herod then called the visitors to a SECRET meeting and enquired of them the EXACT time that they had first seen the star which was to herald the birth of the long awaited king and savour, and it was in accordance with the information he received from the wise men, that he determined the age of the children who were to be slaughtered, "all the males who were two years of age and below."
Having been told that the child was to be born in Bethlehem of Judea, the wise men left the palace and the star/comet appeared once again, and Oh what joy was theirs. Revealing that the comet had previously been hidden from their view, by clouds, dust, full moon or some other cause, and it was this star which was seen in the North West that guided the wise men, not to Bethlehem of Judaea in the south, but to Nazareth of Galilee to the north of Jerusalem.
The Comet of 5BC which is said to have a tail and remained visible to those in the northern hemisphere for 70 days and led the Magi to the child Jesus in Nazareth, would have been very similar to the comet Hale-bopp.
To be continued.
"Astronomy, Astrology, and the Star of Bethlehem." BY John Clevenger of the Lake Country Astronomical Society," which says as follows, "Did any unusual astronomical phenomenon occur between 8 and 2 BC? As it happens there were several notable celestial events during that period. The Chinese reported two comets during that time. The comet of 5 BC which was visible for 70 days, was reported to have a tail. Professor Humphreys of Cambridge University believes that this comet, which he describes as having a vertical tail, appeared at the time of the Jewish Passover. Professor Humpherys believed that this started the Magi, who were knowledgeable of the Jewish prophecy recorded in the book of Micah, concerning the birth of a Jewish king, on their journey.
If right about the vertical tail, this could agree with the biblical account in Matthew that the "Star Stood Over" where the young child was". The comet of 4 BC had no tail and whether it was a comet or a nova is unknown. If it was a nova in 4 BC, which is the death of a star, it would have coincidered with the death of Herod the Great in that same year. While historians have usually suggested that comets were always bad omens. Humphreys believes that history shows them to be either good or bad omens.
I could also use any of a number of authorities to supply evidence of the 6 BC triple conjunction of the "King Planet" Jupiter, with Mars, the “God of War” and Saturn the “God of Time,” who brings the golden age of peace to the earth, which I believe was read by the wise men as the sign that was prophesied to herald the birth of the promised King, who was to succeed to the throne of David the warrior king, as the prophesied Messianic King of Israel, who is to come and subdue the surrounding Nations and bring in the golden Age of one thousand years of peace.
It was the comet of 5 BC, which was seen by professor Humpherys as the star that started the wise men on their journey to Jerusalem. Comets in those days, were called “Hairy Stars.” It was this star that guided the wise men who were believed to be Astronomer, Astrologers from the land of Mesopotamia to Jerusalem in Judaea.
The title "wise men" is translated from the original Greek word magos. The word refers to a priest of the Persian religion Zoroastrianism. These priests, or magi, frequently looked to the stars for signs of the future and gained an international reputation for astrology and revelation/divination.
It is more than probable that the "wise men" were in fact Zoroastrian priests from Persia. They obviously studied the old Hebrew scriptures. The Bible also states that when the magi found the child Jesus, they "fell down and worshiped him." This verse references or indicates bowing, kneeling or prostration, which was generally viewed by both the ancient Jews and Romans as undignified, and in Jewish tradition was reserved for their God alone. However, for Persians, bowing or kneeling was a sign of respect generally directed toward kings.
Having witnessed in 6 BC, the conjunction of the "King Planet" Jupiter, with Mars, the god of war, and "Saturn the god of time, who brings in the golden age of peace to the earth," which I believe was the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, because it appeared two years before the death of Herod the Great in April of 4 BC, and as two years and below, was the age of the children that Herod commanded to be slaughtered just before his death, which age was in accordance with what he had learned from the wise men as to the exact time that they had seen the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, which had to be around 6 BC. See Matthew 2: 16.
I believe that the Bible should only be interpreted by the scriptures themselves. The Books of the Bible are like wheels of interlocking cogs, wheels within wheels, here a little and there a little etc.
Luke tells us that Mary gave birth to her firstborn son in the town of Bethlehem of Judea, as opposed to the Bethlehem, which was about two miles from Nazareth in Galilee, which town is now called Beitlahm, and that eight days after the child was born, it was circumcised and named Jesus. Then thirty-three days later, and before the wise men from the east had come and lavished their gifts of Gold, Frank-incense and mire, on the baby Jesus, he was taken OPENLY to the temple in Jerusalem by his not so financial parents, where his mother performed the purification ceremony, in accordance to the time that the law handed down through Moses demanded.
And after they had completed everything in ACCORDANCE TO THE LAW, they returned to their home in Nazareth. Luke makes no mention of any wise men traveling to Bethlehem of Judaea, or of any slaughter of the innocents.
How do we know, even though it is not mentioned in Luke, that it was thirty-three days after the circumcision that the ceremony of purification was performed? Because Luke says, "And when the days of her purification ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF MOSES were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord.
According to scripture, the child was taken to the temple in Jerusalem for the ceremony of purification at the correct time demanded by the law of Moses, which was 41 days after the birth, immediately after which, the family returned to their home in Nazareth.
To find out when the days of her purification according to the Law of Moses were accomplished, we simply turn to Leviticus 12: 3-4; and let the Bible reveal itself to us: (3) On the eighth day the child shall be circumcised. (4) Then it shall be 33 more days until she is ritually clean from her loss of blood; etc.
How do we know that the parents of Jesus were not flushed financially? Again, we must let the Bible reveal that to us, Leviticus 12: 8, "If the woman cannot afford a lamb, she shall bring two doves or pigeons etc," the fact that the birds were offered, shows that they were unable to afford a lamb, and had not yet received the gifts of Gold, etc.
How long was it before the wise men, after seeing the comet early in the spring of 5 BC, which is believed to have been the inspiration for them to travel to Jerusalem, decided that they should go to pay homage to the heir of that throne, and to organize that trip? And how long did it take them to travel from Mesopotamia to Jerusalem?
The only help that we receive from the Bible is found in Ezra 7: 8-9; "They (Ezra and his group) left Babylonia on the first day of the first month, and with God’s help they arrived in Jerusalem on the first day of the fifth month."
Four months, it took them to travel to Jerusalem. Even if we halve that time and take into account that the comet which inspired them to travel to Jerusalem had not appeared until sometime after the triple conjunction of 6 BC, which had heralded the birth of Jesus, there is no possible way that the wise men could have seen the baby Jesus in the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea, as the family had returned to Nazareth 2 months after the birth of the child.
Traveling presumably, across the "Kings Highway" to Jerusalem to pay homage to the new King, they went to the palace of Herod the Great, the then current ruler of Israel, expecting to find there, the young child whose birth had been heralded by the heavenly sign of 6 BC, the young child that they believed was the Messianic heir to the throne of David, and they asked, "where is the child that has been born to be King of the Jews."[Has been born/past tense]
After receiving verification from his priests that the prophesied King was to be born in Bethlehem of Judaea, Herod then called the visitors to a SECRET meeting and enquired of them the EXACT time that they had first seen the star which was to herald the birth of the long awaited king and savour, and it was in accordance with the information he received from the wise men, that he determined the age of the children who were to be slaughtered, "all the males who were two years of age and below."
Having been told that the child was to be born in Bethlehem of Judea, the wise men left the palace and the star/comet appeared once again, and Oh what joy was theirs. Revealing that the comet had previously been hidden from their view, by clouds, dust, full moon or some other cause, and it was this star which was seen in the North West that guided the wise men, not to Bethlehem of Judaea in the south, but to Nazareth of Galilee to the north of Jerusalem.
The Comet of 5BC which is said to have a tail and remained visible to those in the northern hemisphere for 70 days and led the Magi to the child Jesus in Nazareth, would have been very similar to the comet Hale-bopp.
To be continued.
Continued from post #16.
COMET HALE-BOPP - WHEN AND WHERE TO WATCH
All dates are for 1997
March 1-10. The comet is up before the first light of dawn. Set your alarm clock for about an hour and 45 minutes before sunrise (look up your local sunrise time in a local newspaper). Step outdoors and look east-northeast. Comet Hale-Bopp is shining there moderately high. It's about as bright as the brightest stars, with a hazy head and a dimmer, filmy tail extending to the upper left.
March 10-19. The comet remains fairly high in the predawn sky. It is shifting a little left toward the northeast and gradually brightening. But by now the comet is also becoming visible low in the evening sky too! Look low in the northwest just as the last glow of twilight is fading out. Again, look for a hazy star with a dim tail.
When the comet is seen in the evening sky, its tail extends to the upper right. Each night Comet Hale-Bopp gains altitude and becomes a little easier to find after dusk. Moonlight starts flooding the evening sky around March 16th, compromising the view of the dim outer parts of the tail. But the comet's increasing height and brightness may just about make up for the worsening effect of moonlight. If you want a moonless view as late as the night of March 19-20, continue looking just before dawn.
March 20-22. The ever-brightening comet is now easy to spot fairly high in the northwest after dusk. Meanwhile before the first light of dawn, it has started to sink a bit lower in the northeast -- so that it's now balanced equally high at both times. A bright Moon is in the sky at both times as well.
March 23. This is a big night for skywatchers! The full Moon undergoes a deep partial eclipse that will be visible throughout most of the Americas (and western Europe on the morning of the 24th). Above or to the upper right of the eclipsed Moon will be the bright orange planet Mars, separated from the Moon by a little more than the width of your fist at arm's length. For more on this spectacular lunar eclipse, including a timetable of events, see the March issue of Sky & Telescope, page 82. Comet watchers on the West Coast, especially the Pacific Northwest, get an added bonus.
The eclipse will cleanse the sky of most moonlight from about 8:15 to 9:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time, right in prime comet-watching time.
March 24 - April 10. This is the peak of Comet Hale-Bopp's performance. Look well up in the northwestern sky after the end of evening twilight. The Moon is low in the east at the end of twilight on March 24th and is just rising on the 25th. Then the sky is moonless for the next two weeks. During this time Comet Hale-Bopp is high enough that it will remain in good view for well over an hour after the end of twilight -- though the earlier you look after twilight, the higher it will be. (In fact the comet doesn't actually set until almost three hours after twilight ends as seen from near 40 degrees north latitude.)
The comet's head may shine at about magnitude 0, as bright as the star Capella (which is sparkling much higher in the west-northwestern sky). Anyone able to get away from glary city lights should be treated to an awe-inspiring spectacle: the comet's brilliant, starlike pseudo-nucleus in a hood-shaped head or coma trailed by a thin, bluish ion (gas) tail and a broad, curved, yellowish dust tail, both extending upward.
April 11-15. The comet has moved a little to the left; look west-northwest now after the end of twilight. The waxing crescent Moon returns to the western evening sky during this period, growing thicker and brightening each night. At first its light has little or no effect. But as the days go by the moonlight will increasingly brighten the sky.
April 16 - 23. Comet Hale-Bopp is fading now and getting somewhat lower in the west-northwest, and moonlight fills the evening sky, washing out our view of celestial objects. Even so, the comet should still be plainly visible to the naked eye.
April 24 - May 7. The comet continues to fade and sink lower in the west-northwest at the end of twilight, but now the Moon is gone. How late into the spring can you follow the comet with the naked eye? With binoculars?
May 8. The last hurrah. This evening the thin crescent Moon could form a dramatic tableau with Comet Hale-Bopp -- which, however, may have become increasingly difficult to see low in the fading glow of sunset. First spot the Moon in the western sky in late twilight. The comet is 4 or 5 degrees to the Moon's upper right -- about as far from the Moon as the width of three fingers held at arm's length. Both objects will fit into a typical binocular's field of view (appearing on opposite sides of the view).
During the next week or two, try following the fading comet right down into the sunset with the naked eye or binoculars, etc.
While Comet Hale-Bopp is sinking out of good view from northern latitudes, observers in South America, South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand -- who have not seen the comet since last November -- begin to have their turn to witness the show.
By about the end of April, viewers there should be able to catch sight of the comet very low in the northwest in early evening hours. As April progresses into May, the comet climbs higher into far-southerners' evening skies. By late May, when their northern counterparts are losing sight of it, Southern Hemisphere watchers will still find the comet fairly high above the horizon well after dusk's end. Although Hale-Bopp will have faded substantially from its peak brightness, a fairly long tail may still be visible.
Thus, there is a possibility that observers below the equator will be treated to a decent display after all. And Southern Hemisphere viewers with telescopes will be well placed to follow the comet's slow recession into the distant outer solar system for the next couple of years.
James Musser
UCLA Astronomy
On leaving the palace of Herod the Great in Jerusalem, the star appeared once again, but it was in the north west of Jerusalem, in which direction the wise men followed.
We can almost picture the scene, the wise men with their entourage travelling along the dusty roads of northern Israel, it’s late in the day and as they come to a rise, there, just above the distant horizon, in the deepening darkness of the evening sky, is the star with its tail streaming up into the heavens and appearing to stand over the small and insignificant hamlet of "Nazareth."
The term "Stood Over" in ancient literature refers to comets and comets only. And we are told that the star stood over the HOUSE [Not the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea in which Jesus the baby had been born] and it was in that house in Nazareth, to which the family had returned 2 months after the ceremony of purification had been performed, in which the wise men found Mary with her child, who by then was well over 12 months old.
Why didn’t the Jews see the comet/Hairy Star? How many people would have seen the comet ‘Hale-Bopp which remained visible in the heavens for over seventy nights or how many would have even known it was there if they had not been told by the astronomers who studied the heavens every night?
That night, the wise men, who would presumably have travelled to Jerusalem across the Kings Highway, were warned in a dream not to reveal to Herod the child’s whereabouts, and they returned home by a different route from which they had come, which would, more than likely, have been up through the northern route of Damascus, and Joseph was also warned to get out of bed immediately and take the child and his mother and flee into Egypt.
Herod’s secret police had eyes and ears throughout the entire land, and when he realised that he had been tricked and the wise men were not going to return and reveal the child’s location as promised, he was furious and gave the order to kill all the male children in the district that Herod's spies had confirmed that the wise men with their entourage had travelled to, which was around Bethlehem of Galilee, who were two years and below according to the time that he learned from the wise men about when they had first sighted the star that had heralded the birth of the promised king and savour.
According to Josephus, Sepphoris, which is only about 4 miles from Bethlehem of Galilee, which is now called Beitlahm, and a few kilometers from Nazareth, had a population of around thirty thousand and he called it, "The Ornament of Galilee."
Around the time of Herod’s death in the spring of 4BC, just after he had ordered the slaughter of the innocents around the district of Bethlehem of Galilee, there were riots among the peasants of the area in Galilee of which Sepphoris was the centre. Judas, the son of Hezekias attacked the arsenal of Herod in the city of Sepphoris in order to arm the peasants.
The Romans under Quintillius Varus of Syria, attacked and burnt the city, putting down the uprising in which many families died and others were taken prisoner and transported to Rome, where they were sold as slaves. But Joseph, with his wife and her child had escaped the slaughter by fleeing into Egypt.
After a failed suicide attempt, which I believe may have been an option given to him by Caesar Augustus, in the spring of 4 BC, Herod the Great died, then in the spring of 3 B.C., after the death of Herod his father, when Antipas returned from Rome where his father’s will had been ratified by Augustus, he chose and rebuilt the magnificent city of Sepphoris as his capital city for ruling over Galilee.
The heavenly sign that heralded the birth of the Messiah was the triple conjunction in 6 BC of the "King Planet" Jupiter, with Mars, the god of war, and "Saturn the god of time, who brings the golden age of peace to the earth. Two years later in 4 BC, Herod the Great died after ordering that all the male children in the district where the family of Jesus was, who were born in 6 BC or since then, were to be slaughtered. The star that led the Magi to the child in Nazareth many months after the birth of the child Jesus, was the hairy star/comet of early 5 BC.
COMET HALE-BOPP - WHEN AND WHERE TO WATCH
All dates are for 1997
March 1-10. The comet is up before the first light of dawn. Set your alarm clock for about an hour and 45 minutes before sunrise (look up your local sunrise time in a local newspaper). Step outdoors and look east-northeast. Comet Hale-Bopp is shining there moderately high. It's about as bright as the brightest stars, with a hazy head and a dimmer, filmy tail extending to the upper left.
March 10-19. The comet remains fairly high in the predawn sky. It is shifting a little left toward the northeast and gradually brightening. But by now the comet is also becoming visible low in the evening sky too! Look low in the northwest just as the last glow of twilight is fading out. Again, look for a hazy star with a dim tail.
When the comet is seen in the evening sky, its tail extends to the upper right. Each night Comet Hale-Bopp gains altitude and becomes a little easier to find after dusk. Moonlight starts flooding the evening sky around March 16th, compromising the view of the dim outer parts of the tail. But the comet's increasing height and brightness may just about make up for the worsening effect of moonlight. If you want a moonless view as late as the night of March 19-20, continue looking just before dawn.
March 20-22. The ever-brightening comet is now easy to spot fairly high in the northwest after dusk. Meanwhile before the first light of dawn, it has started to sink a bit lower in the northeast -- so that it's now balanced equally high at both times. A bright Moon is in the sky at both times as well.
March 23. This is a big night for skywatchers! The full Moon undergoes a deep partial eclipse that will be visible throughout most of the Americas (and western Europe on the morning of the 24th). Above or to the upper right of the eclipsed Moon will be the bright orange planet Mars, separated from the Moon by a little more than the width of your fist at arm's length. For more on this spectacular lunar eclipse, including a timetable of events, see the March issue of Sky & Telescope, page 82. Comet watchers on the West Coast, especially the Pacific Northwest, get an added bonus.
The eclipse will cleanse the sky of most moonlight from about 8:15 to 9:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time, right in prime comet-watching time.
March 24 - April 10. This is the peak of Comet Hale-Bopp's performance. Look well up in the northwestern sky after the end of evening twilight. The Moon is low in the east at the end of twilight on March 24th and is just rising on the 25th. Then the sky is moonless for the next two weeks. During this time Comet Hale-Bopp is high enough that it will remain in good view for well over an hour after the end of twilight -- though the earlier you look after twilight, the higher it will be. (In fact the comet doesn't actually set until almost three hours after twilight ends as seen from near 40 degrees north latitude.)
The comet's head may shine at about magnitude 0, as bright as the star Capella (which is sparkling much higher in the west-northwestern sky). Anyone able to get away from glary city lights should be treated to an awe-inspiring spectacle: the comet's brilliant, starlike pseudo-nucleus in a hood-shaped head or coma trailed by a thin, bluish ion (gas) tail and a broad, curved, yellowish dust tail, both extending upward.
April 11-15. The comet has moved a little to the left; look west-northwest now after the end of twilight. The waxing crescent Moon returns to the western evening sky during this period, growing thicker and brightening each night. At first its light has little or no effect. But as the days go by the moonlight will increasingly brighten the sky.
April 16 - 23. Comet Hale-Bopp is fading now and getting somewhat lower in the west-northwest, and moonlight fills the evening sky, washing out our view of celestial objects. Even so, the comet should still be plainly visible to the naked eye.
April 24 - May 7. The comet continues to fade and sink lower in the west-northwest at the end of twilight, but now the Moon is gone. How late into the spring can you follow the comet with the naked eye? With binoculars?
May 8. The last hurrah. This evening the thin crescent Moon could form a dramatic tableau with Comet Hale-Bopp -- which, however, may have become increasingly difficult to see low in the fading glow of sunset. First spot the Moon in the western sky in late twilight. The comet is 4 or 5 degrees to the Moon's upper right -- about as far from the Moon as the width of three fingers held at arm's length. Both objects will fit into a typical binocular's field of view (appearing on opposite sides of the view).
During the next week or two, try following the fading comet right down into the sunset with the naked eye or binoculars, etc.
While Comet Hale-Bopp is sinking out of good view from northern latitudes, observers in South America, South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand -- who have not seen the comet since last November -- begin to have their turn to witness the show.
By about the end of April, viewers there should be able to catch sight of the comet very low in the northwest in early evening hours. As April progresses into May, the comet climbs higher into far-southerners' evening skies. By late May, when their northern counterparts are losing sight of it, Southern Hemisphere watchers will still find the comet fairly high above the horizon well after dusk's end. Although Hale-Bopp will have faded substantially from its peak brightness, a fairly long tail may still be visible.
Thus, there is a possibility that observers below the equator will be treated to a decent display after all. And Southern Hemisphere viewers with telescopes will be well placed to follow the comet's slow recession into the distant outer solar system for the next couple of years.
James Musser
UCLA Astronomy
On leaving the palace of Herod the Great in Jerusalem, the star appeared once again, but it was in the north west of Jerusalem, in which direction the wise men followed.
We can almost picture the scene, the wise men with their entourage travelling along the dusty roads of northern Israel, it’s late in the day and as they come to a rise, there, just above the distant horizon, in the deepening darkness of the evening sky, is the star with its tail streaming up into the heavens and appearing to stand over the small and insignificant hamlet of "Nazareth."
The term "Stood Over" in ancient literature refers to comets and comets only. And we are told that the star stood over the HOUSE [Not the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea in which Jesus the baby had been born] and it was in that house in Nazareth, to which the family had returned 2 months after the ceremony of purification had been performed, in which the wise men found Mary with her child, who by then was well over 12 months old.
Why didn’t the Jews see the comet/Hairy Star? How many people would have seen the comet ‘Hale-Bopp which remained visible in the heavens for over seventy nights or how many would have even known it was there if they had not been told by the astronomers who studied the heavens every night?
That night, the wise men, who would presumably have travelled to Jerusalem across the Kings Highway, were warned in a dream not to reveal to Herod the child’s whereabouts, and they returned home by a different route from which they had come, which would, more than likely, have been up through the northern route of Damascus, and Joseph was also warned to get out of bed immediately and take the child and his mother and flee into Egypt.
Herod’s secret police had eyes and ears throughout the entire land, and when he realised that he had been tricked and the wise men were not going to return and reveal the child’s location as promised, he was furious and gave the order to kill all the male children in the district that Herod's spies had confirmed that the wise men with their entourage had travelled to, which was around Bethlehem of Galilee, who were two years and below according to the time that he learned from the wise men about when they had first sighted the star that had heralded the birth of the promised king and savour.
According to Josephus, Sepphoris, which is only about 4 miles from Bethlehem of Galilee, which is now called Beitlahm, and a few kilometers from Nazareth, had a population of around thirty thousand and he called it, "The Ornament of Galilee."
Around the time of Herod’s death in the spring of 4BC, just after he had ordered the slaughter of the innocents around the district of Bethlehem of Galilee, there were riots among the peasants of the area in Galilee of which Sepphoris was the centre. Judas, the son of Hezekias attacked the arsenal of Herod in the city of Sepphoris in order to arm the peasants.
The Romans under Quintillius Varus of Syria, attacked and burnt the city, putting down the uprising in which many families died and others were taken prisoner and transported to Rome, where they were sold as slaves. But Joseph, with his wife and her child had escaped the slaughter by fleeing into Egypt.
After a failed suicide attempt, which I believe may have been an option given to him by Caesar Augustus, in the spring of 4 BC, Herod the Great died, then in the spring of 3 B.C., after the death of Herod his father, when Antipas returned from Rome where his father’s will had been ratified by Augustus, he chose and rebuilt the magnificent city of Sepphoris as his capital city for ruling over Galilee.
The heavenly sign that heralded the birth of the Messiah was the triple conjunction in 6 BC of the "King Planet" Jupiter, with Mars, the god of war, and "Saturn the god of time, who brings the golden age of peace to the earth. Two years later in 4 BC, Herod the Great died after ordering that all the male children in the district where the family of Jesus was, who were born in 6 BC or since then, were to be slaughtered. The star that led the Magi to the child in Nazareth many months after the birth of the child Jesus, was the hairy star/comet of early 5 BC.
Continued from post #17.
But rather than believe the Holy Scriptures, you might prefer to believe Helena, who was the mother of Emperor Constantine, who established his Universal church in 325 AD, some 300 years after Jesus had established his apostolic church in Jerusalem.
Constantine appointed his mother Helena as Augusta, and gave her unlimited access to the imperial treasury in order to locate the relics of early Judeo-Christian times. And the church of the Nativity in Bethlehem of Judaea, was originally financed and built by Helena the mother of Emperor Constantine, who have both been deified as saints by the Universal church that was established in 325 AD.
According to the traditions of the Church of Constantine, Mary and her child [supposedly] rested in a cave, called the Milk Grotto (la Gruta de la Leche), near the place where today stands the Church of the Nativity (la Iglesia de la Natividad). There, (Or so it is said) their supposed Virgin Mary breastfed the child Jesus to keep it quiet, while the soldiers of Herod were slaughtering the innocent children in Bethlehem of Judaea.
According to Helena; A drop of milk [supposedly] fell on a stone of the cave, and the stone was supposed to have magically turned white. During the early centuries, this white rock, diluted in water, took the appearance of milk and was used as a religious relic.
Both Christians and Muslims believe scrapings from the stones in the grotto boost the quantity of a mother’s milk and enhance fertility. Mothers usually mix it in their drinking water; would-be mothers place the MAGICAL rock under their mattress.
There is also an old tradition which originated from the universal church of Constantine that identifies this as the burial site of the young victims of Herod’s Slaughter of the Innocents. There is a chapel dedicated to them in the caves beneath the Church of St. Catherine. None of this can be historically or scriptually supported.
According to the traditions handed down by their saint Helena, it was in 6 BC, in the first few days after the birth of the child that the wise men paid homage to the baby Jesus in the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea, and immediately after the wise men were supposed to have left, Herod’s men began killing all the male children in that district who were two-years and below, while Mary supposedly hid in the milk Grotto, after which, Joseph and Mary with the baby Jesus, fled from Bethlehem of Judaea into the land of Egypt, where they must have remained for two years, until Herod died in 4 BC.
Meaning that Mary could not have presented Jesus in the Temple in Jerusalem and performed the ceremony of purification according to the time prescribed by the law of Moses until he was over two-years old.
It's your choice, either believe Helena, or believe the Holy Scriptures.
But rather than believe the Holy Scriptures, you might prefer to believe Helena, who was the mother of Emperor Constantine, who established his Universal church in 325 AD, some 300 years after Jesus had established his apostolic church in Jerusalem.
Constantine appointed his mother Helena as Augusta, and gave her unlimited access to the imperial treasury in order to locate the relics of early Judeo-Christian times. And the church of the Nativity in Bethlehem of Judaea, was originally financed and built by Helena the mother of Emperor Constantine, who have both been deified as saints by the Universal church that was established in 325 AD.
According to the traditions of the Church of Constantine, Mary and her child [supposedly] rested in a cave, called the Milk Grotto (la Gruta de la Leche), near the place where today stands the Church of the Nativity (la Iglesia de la Natividad). There, (Or so it is said) their supposed Virgin Mary breastfed the child Jesus to keep it quiet, while the soldiers of Herod were slaughtering the innocent children in Bethlehem of Judaea.
According to Helena; A drop of milk [supposedly] fell on a stone of the cave, and the stone was supposed to have magically turned white. During the early centuries, this white rock, diluted in water, took the appearance of milk and was used as a religious relic.
Both Christians and Muslims believe scrapings from the stones in the grotto boost the quantity of a mother’s milk and enhance fertility. Mothers usually mix it in their drinking water; would-be mothers place the MAGICAL rock under their mattress.
There is also an old tradition which originated from the universal church of Constantine that identifies this as the burial site of the young victims of Herod’s Slaughter of the Innocents. There is a chapel dedicated to them in the caves beneath the Church of St. Catherine. None of this can be historically or scriptually supported.
According to the traditions handed down by their saint Helena, it was in 6 BC, in the first few days after the birth of the child that the wise men paid homage to the baby Jesus in the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea, and immediately after the wise men were supposed to have left, Herod’s men began killing all the male children in that district who were two-years and below, while Mary supposedly hid in the milk Grotto, after which, Joseph and Mary with the baby Jesus, fled from Bethlehem of Judaea into the land of Egypt, where they must have remained for two years, until Herod died in 4 BC.
Meaning that Mary could not have presented Jesus in the Temple in Jerusalem and performed the ceremony of purification according to the time prescribed by the law of Moses until he was over two-years old.
It's your choice, either believe Helena, or believe the Holy Scriptures.
beameup
New member
Gnosticism was a well known heresy in the first century... long before "Constantine" and the "RCC".
As well, neo-Judaism following the destruction of Judaism in 70 A.D. discredited their own Koine Greek Septuagint because of Isaiah 7:11 parthenos.
Obviously, you are heavily influenced by one or both of these.
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In the days of the Apostle Paul who in 1st Timothy 1: 1; says: "From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of "GOD OUR SAVIOUR" and Christ Jesus "OUR HOPE."" The people were already beginning to fall away from the truth, and following another gospel that was not taught by the word of God or the apostles.
In his 2nd letter to the Corinthians 11: 4; Paul says, "You gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit (The Lie) and a gospel completely different from the spirit (Of Truth) and the gospel you received from us."
So, What was that other gospel, Way back in the days of Paul, that was leading the people away from the truth and away from the Jesus as preached by the Apostles, to another false Jesus?
That gospel was the word of the anti-christ that refused to acknowledge that Jesus had come as a human being, and instead, they believed that he was a spirit, who, like some Hologram, would appear and disappear at will.
Even in the days of John, the false teaching that Jesus was not of the seed of Adam from which every human being who has, or ever will walk this earth, has descended, and those who believed this falsehood that Jesus had not come as a human being, but as a spiritual being, was already beginning to be spread throughout the world, and concerning that evolving falsehood, John had this to say.
From the catholic Study Edition of the bible: 1st letter of John 4:1-3; "My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the spirit/teaching, (My words are spirit said the Lord through his servant Jesus) but test them to find out if the spirit/teaching they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere. This is how you will be able to know if it is Gods spirit/word: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus came as a human being has the spirit/teaching, who comes from God. But anyone who denies this about Jesus does not have the spirit from God. The spirit that he has is from the enemy of the anointed one, the Anti-christ etc."
2nd letter of John verses 7-10;."Many deceivers have gone out all over the world, people who do not acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and an enemy of Christ."
If you would care to open your eyes, I'm sure that you will have little difficulty in finding the teaching of the anti-christ, which does not deny that Jesus had come, but which refused to acknowledge that Jesus was a true human being born of the seed of Adam, and descended through the genetic line of David, which lie has been spread throughout the entire WORLD.
Over time, the false teaching of the anti-christ continued to evolve. But as the followers of the anti-christ became more enlightened and harder to deceive. In Alexandria, by the second century, Docetism, the concept that Jesus had existed as a spirit rather than a human being, had all but theoretically been stamped out.
But still, there persisted the belief that their false Jesus, although seen as a sort of human being, did not have our normal bodily needs, such as eating, drinking and having to go to the toilet, and Clement the bishop of Alexandria, wrote: "It would be ridiculous to imagine that the redeemer, in order to exist, had the usual needs of man. He only took food and ate it in order that we should not teach about him in a Docetic fashion." Satan must have been some sort of an idiot believing that this false Jesus of theirs, who had no need of food such as we human beings do, was starving hungry after a mere 40 days without food, who then tried to tempt him into turning stones into bread.
Their Jesus was not the Jesus as taught by the apostles, but that other Jesus, taught by the Anti-Christ, who unlike we mere HUMAN BEINGS, did not need to eat, drink, or go to the toilet, as was taught by one of the great teachers that the members of the universal church, loved to use as one of their authorities when trying to defend one of their false doctrines.
Saint Clement of Alexandria, who was a saint in the Martyrology of the Roman universal church of Emperor Constantine, in support of the great lie, speaks of the time that some imaginary midwife, (Which is not supported by scripture) who was supposed to be at the birth of Jesus, told some woman by the name Salome, that the mother was still a virgin after the birth and that her hymen was still intact, (Which is not supported by scripture) and that this supposed Salome, stuck her finger into the mother's vagina to check, and her hand immediately withered up, but the baby Jesus reached out and touched her hand and healed it.(What utter unadulterated crap)
Down to the 17th century Clement was venerated as a saint. His name was to be found in the Martyrologies, and his feast fell on December 4. But when the Roman Martyrology was revised by Clement VIII (Pope from 1592 to 1605), his name was dropped from the calendar on the advice of his confessor, Cardinal Baronius. Pope Benedict XIV in 1748 maintained his predecessor's decision on the grounds that Clement's life was little-known; that he had never obtained public cultus in the Church; and that some of his doctrines were, if not erroneous, at least highly suspect.
Erroneous and highly suspect, you can say that again, but by then the great lie had become so entrenched in the minds of the gullible that their heads were so mixed up and set as hard as concrete, one would need a sledge hammer to shatter that conglomerate and allow the light of truth to shine in.
Clement, who lived between 150"211 AD was expressing a belief that was already firmly established by those who had abandoned the Jesus as taught by the apostles.
The Lord now has need of some good children of God, to root out the weeds that were planted by the Famous Prostitute and her harlot denominational daughters who have been brought up on her spiritual rubbish.