Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 6

[Lon]

aCultureWarrior said:
No, your fellow libertarians "despise" people who try to take away their sinful "freedoms" and "liberties".


It's your lucky day and since you refuse to read and discuss "Civil Government: The Neglected Ministry", I'm going to give you a quick lesson in voting (i.e. legislating).

Every 4 years there's a Presidential election, and as well as voting for President, you can vote for representatives from your respective State that go to Congress. When they are elected and sworn into public office...now pass close attention to this next part....they pass laws, i.e. "legislate".
Depending on that legislation, certain things are allowed or not allowed (i.e. criminalized). Things that are allowed (legal) are abortion. Since libertarian ideology legislates that a woman has a right to do with her body as she pleases, there have been over 60 MILLION unborn babies surgiclaly killed in the womb in less than a 50 year period. With abortion drugs appearing on the scene several years back, add millions more to that number.

Know all this. What I DON'T know, is your recommendation for a Christian at such a point. What does he/she do????

Homosexuality has also been legalizied and what was known as that "infamous crime against nature" is now being accepted throughout society. Besides the act of homosexuality being extremely deadly, homosexual activists have made an agenda that involves permeating every institution in society (government, the Church, the military, Education, the media, youth mentor groups, marriage, the family) to promote their evil Godless agenda.
Now if you'd read "Civil Government: The Neglected Ministry"

CIVIL GOVERNMENT: THE NEGLECTED MINISTRY, by Archie P. Jones

you'd know that government can't do the job of promoting decency and hence God's Word alone, it must be done through the two other institutions that God created for the governance of man: the family and the Church.

Agreed, but it doesn't tell me or another , as Christians, what to do. Do we abstain from voting? Do we not get involved at all on that end? Do we try and get Christians into office? What do you suggest?

As the article states "Neglect one institution and you inevitably impair the functioning of the other two,..."
hence the family and Church both in dissaray (fatherless homes, rampant crime, unbiblical teaching, i.e. 'gay Christianity') and all three of God's institutions that He created for the governance of man are failing.

So now that you've been given a quick lesson in "legislating" and thus knowing the importance of civil government and how important it is for people who actually love God and their neighbor to vote in God-fearing men and women into public office, you can quit your phony act and join TomO and okdoser in promoting libertarianism, and explain why it's so important for a nation that ideology like that is "legislated".

Quit being accusatory. Knock.It.Off. Your article didn't give advice on what to do. You didn't either. What is a Christian supposed to do? If you agreed with me, in the first place, that people need salvation, then why be contradictory and confrontational? If you don't, WHY didn't you provide instruction instead of continuing with this dismal accusatory and passing blame? You are literally no help at all, just a negative messenger from the cheapseats, an armchair disobedient quarterback doing next to nothing to make any kind of difference. When are you getting out of that chair? When are you going to actually tell Christians what they actually can do to make a difference? Voting? I do, but I'd no control over the candidates. Which should I have voted for? Hilary? Trump? A third party? Your and my vote, in this state never ever, ever (okay, rarely) counts but never for Presidents. We are always voiceless. Such is very disheartening for a Christian. Should I move out of state so my vote counts? What do you suggest? What do you do in this state? How is it of any good consequence? I genuinely feel impotent and pray more often.

My answer to all of this is that God answers prayers and people need salvation. Give me all the correction you desire at that point. I won't bake a cake that has profanity or for anything against God, but I'm not a baker so it never comes up. However, it does mean I have 'some' anarchist tendency. I refuse to be a baker and believe that freedom has been taken away from me, if I so chose. I can support lawsuits. What else? What other sage advice will help CW? What can be done?

 

[Lon]

My apologies, I would like it very much if you, Lon and okdoser ardently defended libertarian doctrine so that we can have a real discussion on what is better for society: Libertarian doctrine and hence laws, or Judeo-Christian doctrine and hence laws.

I'm not libertarian. I believe the removal of prayer, scriptures, and other Christian influence in deference to minorities has eroded a foundation built upon Christian principles. A little leaven: Television and movies have pushed 'acceptable' to diminish values and decency. Such openness is Libertarian, but I've never voted for it. It happened under Supreme Court decisions, to continue to fall to the lowest common denominator of 'secular' as if 'secular' were a virtue and preference.

As far as I can assess, the erosion of values is due to a misconception of 'separation of church and state' such that courts think they cannot make a decision favoring Christian values and belief. The 'new' purer form is atheism, whether any judge realizes it or not. A 'godless' government is going to necessarily have to be 'godless.' They ineptly have continued to legislate against Christian principles, not realizing they are fighting against God very God, and trying to drag the rest of the U.S. down the same hole. Teachers don't realize that a student can bring and read their bibles in school. They have no idea because court systems are systematically doing it, and leading by example that teachers wrongly believe they have to follow. This, in a nutshell, is what I believe has happened to the America we knew. A teen today would likely be shocked that any scripture hung on school walls, let alone many of them. A preteen today probably wouldn't believe you or me, if we told them that history books mentioned God, talked about Christianity, that ABC primers talked of basic theology, or that we said prayers in school about 4 times a day.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Know all this. What I DON'T know, is your recommendation for a Christian at such a point. What does he/she do????

Agreed, but it doesn't tell me or another , as Christians, what to do. Do we abstain from voting? Do we not get involved at all on that end? Do we try and get Christians into office? What do you suggest?

Quit being accusatory. Knock.It.Off. Your article didn't give advice on what to do. You didn't either. What is a Christian supposed to do? If you agreed with me, in the first place, that people need salvation, then why be contradictory and confrontational? If you don't, WHY didn't you provide instruction instead of continuing with this dismal accusatory and passing blame? You are literally no help at all, just a negative messenger from the cheapseats, an armchair disobedient quarterback doing next to nothing to make any kind of difference. When are you getting out of that chair? When are you going to actually tell Christians what they actually can do to make a difference? Voting? I do, but I'd no control over the candidates. Which should I have voted for? Hilary? Trump? A third party? Your and my vote, in this state never ever, ever (okay, rarely) counts but never for Presidents. We are always voiceless. Such is very disheartening for a Christian. Should I move out of state so my vote counts? What do you suggest? What do you do in this state? How is it of any good consequence? I genuinely feel impotent and pray more often.

My answer to all of this is that God answers prayers and people need salvation. Give me all the correction you desire at that point. I won't bake a cake that has profanity or for anything against God, but I'm not a baker so it never comes up. However, it does mean I have 'some' anarchist tendency. I refuse to be a baker and believe that freedom has been taken away from me, if I so chose. I can support lawsuits. What else? What other sage advice will help CW? What can be done?

(Sigh, libertarians these days, they try so hard).

For those that are actually followers of Christ who are following this thread, they know that "Civil Government: The Neglected Ministryy" explains the importance of civil government and electing God-fearing leaders that will lead America in a Godly direction.
For those that are actually followers of Christ who are following this thread, they know that Exodus 18:21 defines what kind of people to elect into public office and that Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2: 13-15 defines the role of civil governemnt. If the leader isn't punishing evil and supporting good, then he is not a legitimate leader and shouln't be voted into public office.

It's not rocket science...ahem..."Lon", it's basic stuff. You "I'm not a libertarian!" libertarians know the importance of civil government, because without it you couldn't push your morally depraved ideology as well as you do with it.

 

[TomO]

For those that are actually followers of Christ who are following this thread, they know that Exodus 18:21 defines what kind of people to elect into public office and that Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2: 13-15 defines the role of civil governemnt. (sic) If the leader isn't punishing evil and supporting good, then he is not a legitimate leader and shouln't (sic) be voted into public office.

....And when voting doesn't go "your way" and a group of Baby-Murdering degenerates occupy the halls of worldly power?...We vote again!!! Yaaayyy!!!

libertarians know the importance of civil government, because without it you couldn't push your morally depraved ideology as well as you do with it.

Civil Government does excel at pushing morally depraved ideology, doesn't it?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

....And when voting doesn't go "your way" and a group of Baby-Murdering degenerates occupy the halls of worldly power?...We vote again!!! Yaaayyy!!!

But but but Tom, when I told you libertarians that Donald Trump was a baby killer, you said that you "weren't voting for a pastor".
Hopefully real pro lifers will listen this time around if your rainbow flag waving, baby killing NYC liberal should decide to run for President again in 2024.

Civil Government does excel at pushing morally depraved ideology, doesn't it?

And you libertarians are proud of your 'achievements' aren't you Tom?

 

[TomO]

But but but Tom, when I told you libertarians that Donald Trump was a baby killer, you said that you "weren't voting for a pastor".
Hopefully real pro lifers will listen this time around if your rainbow flag waving, baby killing NYC liberal should decide to run for President again in 2024.

Kindly provide a cite where I have posted or said such a thing.

And you libertarians are proud of your 'achievements' aren't you Tom?

Actually the "achievements" of your civil government is what has made me hoist the Black Flag...Your worship of an institution which has routinely slipped it's bonds and become a threat to righteousness, in direct violation of it's mandate from the ALMIGHTY, is quite pathetic.


Luke 4:5 & Following..5. Then the devil led him up and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6. And the devil said to him, “To you I will give their glory and all this authority; for it has been given over to me, and I give it to anyone I please. 7. If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 8. Jesus answered him, “It is written,

‘Worship the Lord your God,
and serve only him.’”

Learn it...Live it...Know it.

 

[ok doser]

So how long have you been a member of NAMBLA, "acw"?

 

[Lon]

(Sigh, libertarians these days, they try so hard).

Knock.It.Off. If you cannot be honest or Christ-worthy, I'm fairly done with you and will leave you to your angst. The Holy Spirit isn't a part of this accusatory on your part. BE a man of God or I'll leave you and pray God disciplines you. He disciplines those He loves.

For those that are actually followers of Christ who are following this thread, they know that "Civil Government: The Neglected Ministryy" explains the importance of civil government and electing God-fearing leaders that will lead America in a Godly direction.

I must of read the reader's digest version. It was very short and gave no help or instructions.

For those that are actually followers of Christ who are following this thread, they know that Exodus 18:21 defines what kind of people to elect into public office and that Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2: 13-15 defines the role of civil governemnt. If the leader isn't punishing evil and supporting good, then he is not a legitimate leader and shouln't be voted into public office.

It didn't explain well enough. Do I refrain from voting until then? What does your author say? I didn't see him address that.

It's not rocket science...ahem..."Lon", it's basic stuff.

So why do I have to ask 5 times CW?????? Can't you explain it? You'd rather give nothing and tell us off?

You "I'm not a libertarian!" libertarians know the importance of civil government, because without it you couldn't push your morally depraved ideology as well as you do with it.

I don't really care what you call me. Scripture says 'for freedom Christ set you free.' Whatever hang-up you have with being liberated from sin, take up with Him. IOW: Read your bible and know it instead of making it up as you go or following somebody else that doesn't know his Bible half as well as he should. You are so caught up accusing the body, you don't realize you are working for the one who divides. Christ died on the cross for this, CW. You are arrogant and need continued rebuke for what you are doing to what belongs to Him. A LOT of 'would be' Christians are going to stand before Him. "Do I know you?" will be the question. What are you ACTUALLY doing to take care of 'the least of these?' Just accusing them? Blaming Christ for choosing publicans and sinners? Hating because He didn't come for the well, but the sick? You've a lot of explaining to do, young angry man.

 

[TomO]

I must of read the reader's digest version. It was very short and gave no help or instructions.

Yeah, I gotta admit that I wasn't very impressed either.

 

[ok doser]

Knock.It.Off. If you cannot be honest or Christ-worthy, I'm fairly done with you and will leave you to your angst. The Holy Spirit isn't a part of this accusatory on your part. BE a man of God or I'll leave you and pray God disciplines you. He disciplines those He loves.

I must of read the reader's digest version. It was very short and gave no help or instructions.

It didn't explain well enough. Do I refrain from voting until then? What does your author say? I didn't see him address that.

So why do I have to ask 5 times CW?????? Can't you explain it? You'd rather give nothing and tell us off?

I don't really care what you call me. Scripture says 'for freedom Christ set you free.' Whatever hang-up you have with being liberated from sin, take up with Him. IOW: Read your bible and know it instead of making it up as you go or following somebody else that doesn't know his Bible half as well as he should. You are so caught up accusing the body, you don't realize you are working for the one who divides. Christ died on the cross for this, CW. You are arrogant and need continued rebuke for what you are doing to what belongs to Him. A LOT of 'would be' Christians are going to stand before Him. "Do I know you?" will be the question. What are you ACTUALLY doing to take care of 'the least of these?' Just accusing them? Blaming Christ for choosing publicans and sinners? Hating because He didn't come for the well, but the sick? You've a lot of explaining to do, young angry man.

acw is like Squeaky - remember Squeaky? He was desperate for attention and in response would only heap abuse. My best interaction with him was several years ago when I determined to only quote scripture back at him - not to rise to his bait, never respond to his foolishness, only quote scripture. Did it for a year. And it worked. It denied him what he had been desperate for - an excuse to accuse others.

Also like Squeaky, I see nothing of Christ in acw.

 

[Right Divider]

remember Squeaky?

Unfortunately... I do.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

aCultureWarrior said:
But but but Tom, when I told you libertarians that Donald Trump was a baby killer, you said that you "weren't voting for a pastor".
Hopefully real pro lifers will listen this time around if your rainbow flag waving, baby killing NYC liberal should decide to run for President again in 2024.

Kindly provide a cite where I have posted or said such a thing.

"Proooove I said that!" Sigh, some things never change. You might want to ask ok doser, your fellow "I am not a libertarian!" libertarian if he said that back in 2016 when I was attempting to rally TOL'ers to support Ted Cruz. Boy, was I naïve back then or what?
In any event, it was a common saying amongst rainbow flag waving Trump supporters when all of the moral depravity that he stands for and engaged in was brought to the public's knowledge.

I’ve Had it with the Line ‘But We’re Not Electing a Pastor-in-Chief’

I dont like worthless, empty slogans, but I have a real problem when those worthless, empty slogans are used to justify a moral or theological position.

townhall.com

aCultureWarrior said:
And you libertarians are proud of your 'achievements' aren't you Tom?

Actually the "achievements" of your civil government is what has made me hoist the Black Flag...Your worship of an institution which has routinely slipped it's bonds and become a threat to righteousness, in direct violation of it's mandate from the ALMIGHTY, is quite pathetic.

A big part of this 6 part thread is showing those that are actually followers of Christ that the Godless secular humanist/libertarian movement couldn't have gotten where they are today without the assistance of apathetic so-called Christians. Civil government was created by God, so it's inherently good. People who sit back and allow the morally depraved to take it over are just as much at fault for allowing it as are those that have b*stardized one of God's invaluable institutions.

Luke 4:5 & Following..5. Then the devil led him up and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6. And the devil said to him, “To you I will give their glory and all this authority; for it has been given over to me, and I give it to anyone I please. 7. If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 8. Jesus answered him, “It is written,

‘Worship the Lord your God,
and serve only him.’”

Learn it...Live it...Know it.

Do you consider yourself what...ahem..."Lon" referred to as a "Libertarian Christian"?
How is it possible to be both? "Discuss".

 

[ok doser]

Boy, was I naïve back then or what?

Naive? No

Retarded, yes.

Retarded then, retarded now.

Its your defining characteristic.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

aCultureWarrior said:
You "I'm not a libertarian!" libertarians know the importance of civil government, because without it you couldn't push your morally depraved ideology as well as you do with it.

I don't really care what you call me. Scripture says 'for freedom Christ set you free.'

I had earlier referred to you as an anarchist, which isn't true because you vote and believe in the necessity of civil government for things that you deem necessary (murder, rape, theft, i.e. non 'consensual' acts"). Of course in your mind the recriminalization of homosexuality isn't necessary, (you "I am not a libertarian!" libertarians refer to homosexuality as a "victimless crime") and of course all of the people in this picture, believe it or not are on their way to Christian Church services to repent and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

I know, I'm probably going to Hell for mocking you...

 

[Sherman]

Thread starter is now banned, so I am archiving this.

 

[Lon]

aCultureWarrior said:
You "I'm not a libertarian!" libertarians know the importance of civil government, because without it you couldn't push your morally depraved ideology as well as you do with it.


I had earlier referred to you as an anarchist, which isn't true because you vote and believe in the necessity of civil government for things that you deem necessary (murder, rape, theft, i.e. non 'consensual' acts"). Of course in your mind the recriminalization of homosexuality isn't necessary, (you "I am not a libertarian!" libertarians refer to homosexuality as a "victimless crime") and of course all of the people in this picture, believe it or not are on their way to Christian Church services to repent and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Recrimination would be 'after' people come to Christ. It is a cart before the horse consideration for me. Why, CW, why, do you have to phrase things to think the worst of other people? You weren't always like this. Do you even remember praying for me and my family? Did you not actually do it?

I know, I'm probably going to Hell for mocking you...

I don't want you in hell. It isn't my desire at all. We need a lot of healing, just between Christians in this nation. Let's start there? It has to start somewhere. Wars don't heal, they rip. We may need the surgery, but I think the patient (us/these United States) may not survive the surgery. I don't know answers. I think in a lot of ways you call on the right things, but because of the anger issues, the message gets lost and you less usable by God. I don't know all the answers, but Christ.

 

[Idolater]

Recrimination would be 'after' people come to Christ. It is a cart before the horse consideration for me. Why, CW, why, do you have to phrase things to think the worst of other people? You weren't always like this. Do you even remember praying for me and my family? Did you not actually do it?

I don't want you in hell. It isn't my desire at all. We need a lot of healing, just between Christians in this nation. Let's start there? It has to start somewhere. Wars don't heal, they rip. We may need the surgery, but I think the patient (us/these United States) may not survive the surgery. I don't know answers. I think in a lot of ways you call on the right things, but because of the anger issues, the message gets lost and you less usable by God. I don't know all the answers, but Christ.

The acknowledgement that we all have the same rights, and whether they come from God, or from evolution, doesn't make any difference as we govern ourselves as a republic.

We do not believe that Catholics or Muslims should be imposing Catholicism or Islam upon everybody else. We agree on this.

We are a republic, so we're our own rulers, and our government or state or regime is liberal, which means that we cultivate the liberal institutions of separation of powers, civilian control of the military, constitutionalism, all in an effort to defend our rights.

Our rights are God-given, for Catholics, and an accident of evolution for atheists, but it doesn't matter where they came from because we can all agree that they're real, and that we need to defend them, to do a good job governing. At a minimum.

What ACW never acknowledged was that his crusade against homo-genital behavior is arbitrary, and that if he wants to be consistent, he should support recriminalizing adultery too, and we should criminalize other offenses against chastity as well, premarital hetero-genital behavior for example, and while we're at it, we might as well also outlaw masturbation because that's been shown to be deleterious in some ways, all other things being equal. For instance not all pedophiles are homosexuals, but guaranteed all pedophiles masturbate. We would do more to target pedophiles by targeting masturbation rather than homosexuality.

 

[Lon]

The acknowledgement that we all have the same rights, and whether they come from God, or from evolution, doesn't make any difference as we govern ourselves as a republic.

We do not believe that Catholics or Muslims should be imposing Catholicism or Islam upon everybody else. We agree on this.

I want those values imposed, regardless, because abortion is murder, because imprisoning a Christian for sharing his/her faith is wrong. It is specifically because our nation held Christian principles and values, that we lasted as long as we did. If/when those things are gone, then laws will continue to reflect a degenerative value system always falling to the least common denominator.

We are a republic, so we're our own rulers, and our government or state or regime is liberal, which means that we cultivate the liberal institutions of separation of powers, civilian control of the military, constitutionalism, all in an effort to defend our rights.

Except it has gone backwards since the 1960's (and before) where government stop being servants of the people, by the people, for the people, and representatives started increasingly believing that separation of Church and state also meant a state that was separate from those Christian people.

Our rights are God-given, for Catholics, and an accident of evolution for atheists, but it doesn't matter where they came from because we can all agree that they're real, and that we need to defend them, to do a good job governing. At a minimum.

No, we cannot agree. That is why we have a secular state started that was never secular before. There are bibles, and bible verses all over Washington.

What ACW never acknowledged was that his crusade against homo-genital behavior is arbitrary, and that if he wants to be consistent, he should support recriminalizing adultery too, and we should criminalize other offenses against chastity as well, premarital hetero-genital behavior for example, and while we're at it, we might as well also outlaw masturbation because that's been shown to be deleterious in some ways, all other things being equal. For instance not all pedophiles are homosexuals, but guaranteed all pedophiles masturbate. We would do more to target pedophiles by targeting masturbation rather than homosexuality.

I think he has mentioned those too and does believe those too should be illegal, but these are not those threads. I could be wrong. I obviously haven't talked to him for some time and had little idea until recently, that he'd been attacking church members indiscriminately. Such is counterproductive and harmful and nullifies even the premise he is interested in recriminalizing.

 

[TomO]

Thread starter is now banned, so I am archiving this.

 

[Right Divider]

The acknowledgement that we all have the same rights, and whether they come from God, or from evolution, doesn't make any difference as we govern ourselves as a republic.

There are no "rights" that come from evolution.