Why Homosexuality MUST Be Recriminalized! Part 5

[aCultureWarrior]

So you're a universalist.
Titus 2
[11]For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people.
Therefore, all sinners, be they rapists, murderers, molesteres, swindlers, thieves, home wreckers, etc., they will all be saved.

If they repent. Remember that this discussion started because your LGBTQ movement evicted a Christian Church from it's building because they talked about repentance in a sign.

What is repentance and is it necessary for salvation?
https://www.gotquestions.org/repentance.html

I've dealt with you many times before under different screen names, I know this because you want to talk about anything other than homosexuality.

On that note: I should point out to those who have embraced homosexual desires and have rejected God because of it shouldn't listen to people like MennoSota, as he believes that even if you repent and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, it's a waste of time, because you're not one of God's "chosen".

What is Calvinism and is it biblical? What are the five points of Calvinism?
https://www.gotquestions.org/calvinism.html

Which takes us into a great article by theologian Robert Gagnon, coming up next.

 

[MennoSota]

If they repent. Remember that this discussion started because your LGBTQ movement evicted a Christian Church from it's building because they talked about repentance in a sign.

What is repentance and is it necessary for salvation?
https://www.gotquestions.org/repentance.html

I've dealt with you many times before under different screen names, I know this because you want to talk about anything other than homosexuality.

On that note: I should point out to those who have embraced homosexual desires and have rejected God because of it shouldn't listen to people like MennoSota, as he believes that even if you repent and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, it's a waste of time, because you're not one of God's "chosen".

What is Calvinism and is it biblical? What are the five points of Calvinism?
https://www.gotquestions.org/calvinism.html

Which takes us into a great article by theologian Robert Gagnon, coming up next.

I invite us talking about how all sin, including homosexual sex breaks the law of God and condemns us to hell.
I invite us talking about God's redeeming gracious adoption by no merit of our own (including human repentance).
What I notice is you are now attacking me rather than the topic. I suspect this is due to having little biblical support on your part.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I invite us talking about how all sin, including homosexual sex breaks the law of God and condemns us to hell.

Man is condemned to Hell if he doesn't repent.

I invite us talking about God's redeeming gracious adoption by no merit of our own (including human repentance).

Your Calvinist lies have already been exposed.

What I notice is you are now attacking me rather than the topic. I suspect this is due to having little biblical support on your part.

This 5 part thread has a rock solid biblical foundation, which includes God's view of homosexuality, the proper role of government, and individuals leaving homosexual desires (and the lifestyle behind) through repentance.

My turn: I invite you to tell the followers of this thread why homosexuality shouldn't be recriminalized (if that doesn't chase him off, nothing will).

 

[MennoSota]

Man is condemned to Hell if he doesn't repent.



Your Calvinist lies have already been exposed.



This 5 part thread has a rock solid biblical foundation, which includes God's view of homosexuality, the proper role of government, and individuals leaving homosexual desires (and the lifestyle behind) through repentance.

My turn: I invite you to tell the followers of this thread why homosexuality shouldn't be recriminalized (if that doesn't chase him off, nothing will).

Man is condemned to hell because he broke God's moral law. You can say you're sorry to the Judge all you want, but justice demands the law be upheld. You are doomed! The judge declares you are guilty!
You are entirely at the mercy of God. He is not obligated to pardon you, just because you say you're sorry and won't do it again. Your punishment must be meeted out. Your only hope is that God will choose to pardon you because of Jesus substitutionary atonement (payment) for your godless law breaking. You have NO say in God, the Judges, decision. Plead, weep and cry all you want. God decides your fate! Just as he decides the fate of everyone else who break his moral laws. No one is exempt. Your sin is equally as vile as that of the person who falls in same-sex temptation.
We all need God's redemption. We are all at his mercy. May God be gracious to us...regardless of the sins we struggle with.
CW, what is the sin that so easily besets you? Will God pardon you...or not?

 

[Catholic Crusader]

.....CW, what is the sin that so easily besets you? Will God pardon you...or not?

He's got something cooking up in his brain pan, that's for sure. He's off his rocker

 

[MennoSota]

He's got something cooking up in his brain pan, that's for sure. He's off his rocker

We're all off our rockers. That's why we are all desperately in need of God's mercy and grace.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

...This 5 part thread has a rock solid biblical foundation, which includes God's view of homosexuality, the proper role of government, and individuals leaving homosexual desires (and the lifestyle behind) through repentance [and the free will that God gives mankind to choose].

My turn: I invite you to tell the followers of this thread why homosexuality shouldn't be recriminalized (if that doesn't chase him off, nothing will).

crickets chirping

 

[aCultureWarrior]

This 3rd article on TUOSSD/Therapy Understanding One's Same Sex Desires (aka reparative/conversion therapy) is by Robert Gagnon, PhD.

It's a long article, so I will highlight some of the points that he makes, points that have already been discussed on this subject in earlier threads. It will take more than one post to share all of this invaluable information.

“Why Christians Should Not Throw Reparative Therapy™ Under the Bus”
by Robert Gagnon, PhD
(Presentation given at the Evangelical Theological Society Conference, Atlanta, Ga., Nov 2015)

Robert Gagnon

Summary: Some Biblical counselors reject reparative therapy (RT). One such counselor says that “God’s remedy for sin is not therapeutic attunement, but repentant faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.”
In this speech, transcribed below, Dr. Gagnon offers a rebuttal. Evangelicals who reject RT’s insights “do that at our peril.” He says, “reparative therapy is not out to replace the Christian faith...it has a specialized ministry which is in no way incompatible.”
In fact, “reparative therapy should be embraced by Christians...not as a total answer” but as “one valid tool” in uncovering the answers to life.

Reparative Therapy has been mostly attacked from within by psychology, but also by fellow Christians, although from a different angle. In psychology, this attack is coming from the LGBTQ stranglehold which it possesses on that profession.
In offering their own critique, the Christian community is giving aid and comfort to their enemies and distress to our friends. This is unintentional, but it is still happening. This is collateral damage...

 

[MennoSota]

Homosexual behavior is no more damaging to society than pride, of which humans destroy each other. If you criminalize sexual behavior, criminalize pride. We can put you in chains as soon as the bill passes into law.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Homosexual behavior is no more damaging to society than pride, of which humans destroy each other.

As in "gay pride"?

If you criminalize sexual behavior, criminalize pride. We can put you in chains as soon as the bill passes into law.

Certain sexual behaviors are still criminal. Sex with children (although the LGBTQ movement wants to abolish those archaic laws), sex with animals, and in certain cases, sex with one's close family member (homosexual incest is rarely if ever penalized).

Thoughts on those laws?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Continuing with Robert Gagnon's article entitled:

“Why Christians Should Not Throw Reparative Therapy™ Under the Bus”

...Lets catalogue some of those distortions.
1. Reparative therapists believe that the primary goal of the Christian is that homosexually oriented persons must become heterosexually oriented persons. That’s a false statement.
2. Reparative therapists operate under a premise that homosexuality can be changed easily and quickly. That too, is a false statement.
3. Reparative Therapist believe that all persons who experience homosexual attractions have bad relations with their same-sex parent. That too is a false statement.
So again, we have to deal with what they actually do believe and state, rather than a parody of what they actually believe and state.
A quote from Joseph Nicolosi who, of course-- I guess if there was a father of Reparative Therapy it would be Joseph Nicolosi-- “Reparative Therapy involves a collaborative relationship between the therapist and the client in which the therapist agrees to work with the client to reduce his unwanted attractions and explore, [note: explore] his heterosexual potential. No outcome can be guaranteed. Outcomes range along a continuum from complete change to partial change, that is management and reduction of unwanted feelings.”
Note, the word “management”... that does not necessarily preclude the possibility of an ongoing nature to those feelings, but the ability to manage them. We do the same thing in Alcoholics Anonymous.

 

[MennoSota]

As in "gay pride"?



Certain sexual behaviors are still criminal. Sex with children (although the LGBTQ movement wants to abolish those archaic laws), sex with animals, and in certain cases, sex with one's close family member (homosexual incest is rarely if ever penalized).

Thoughts on those laws?

As in human pride...like what you display.

Sex with a minor is a government law. How old do you think women in the Bible were when they were married and started having sex with their husbands? Mary was likely only a teenager when she gave birth to Jesus. God does not set up an arbitrary age for marriage. God does require union of one man and one woman. Any other union is sin and breaking God's moral law.
The government makes laws against sexual behavior in regard to non-consent. You are welcome to try have bills written and signed into law if you can convince the legislature and executive leader to pass them.
The problem, of course, is that while you legislate an act as criminal behavior, you don't change the sinners heart. If I was able to pass a law that required prideful people (like you and me) to be sent to jail, would it change the pride in our hearts? No. Only God can change the sin in our hearts and bring us to repentance.
Instead of preaching a message of condemnation, I will do what God tells me to do in 2 Corinthians 5. I will be an ambassador of reconciliation, preaching reconciliation with God through Jesus atoning sacrifice. Will you join me in that task?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
As in "gay pride"?

Certain sexual behaviors are still criminal. Sex with children (although the LGBTQ movement wants to abolish those archaic laws), sex with animals, and in certain cases, sex with one's close family member (homosexual incest is rarely if ever penalized).

Thoughts on those laws?

As in human pride...like what you display.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm "proud" to be a follower of Christ and embrace the things that He teaches (righteous laws, free will to overcome unnatural desires, etc. etc. etc.)

Sex with a minor is a government law

One that the LGBTQ movement wants to abolish. Sex with children is a mainstay with the LGBT movement. Did you know (amongst other things) that the LGBTQ movement founded the North American Man Boy Love Association, the Pedophile Information Exchange in the UK and was responsible for having child pornography legalized in Sweden years ago?

Did you know that most if not all LGBTQ icons were (and currently are) pedophiles or pederasts or promoted sex with children?

Pretty sick huh?

...The government makes laws against sexual behavior in regard to non-consent.

(Libertarian alert! Libertarian alert!)

To my knowledge prostitution is illegal in every State except in some counties in Nevada (San Franswishco, aka Sodomy and Gonorrhea South even voted against legalizing it). So much for your false statement.


When it comes to the indoctrination of children by the homosexual movement, I wasn't aware that those children "consented" to be told lie after lie by the LGBTQ degenerates.

...The problem, of course, is that while you legislate an act as criminal behavior, you don't change the sinners heart.

Punishing one's sinful/criminal behavior often times is a wake-up call to those who have been leading immoral lives (they have a change of heart).

Only God can change the sin in our hearts and bring us to repentance

(I guess he likes the word repentance now).

Prison ministries does a pretty good job of sharing God's Word with those who are incarcerated.

...Instead of preaching a message of condemnation, I will do what God tells me to do in 2 Corinthians 5. I will be an ambassador of reconciliation, preaching reconciliation with God through Jesus atoning sacrifice. Will you join me in that task?

If I should ever decide to be a sexual anarchist, i.e. sell out God and embrace laws as long as some kind of "consent" is used, I'll be sure to let you know (aCW checks his calendar looking for the day that Hell freezes over).

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Continuing with Professor Robert Gagnon's article:

Why Christians Should Not Throw Reparative Therapy™ Under the Bus”

... “Reparative Therapy views most same-sex attractions” didn’t say all, “as reparations for childhood trauma. Such trauma may be explicit, such as sexual or emotional abuse, or implicit in the form of negative parental messages regarding one’s self and gender. Exploring and resolving these childhood emotional wounds will often” (note, not always) “result in reducing unwanted same- sex attractions. Same-sex attraction is associated with particular types of negative peer and family...” (note, not just family, but peer), “experiences. The consequent trauma can have damaging effects on gender-identity development. Some forms of homosexual orientation,” (note, not all) “some forms are based upon disturbances in gender-identity formation. The fulfillment of those needs can,” (note, not WILL), “reduce and sometimes,” (note, not always), “eliminate same-sex attraction.”

… In Nicolosi’s book “Shame and Attachment Loss” published by InterVarsity Press in 2009, he acknowledges that it not just all about trauma and childhood and that sort of thing. “Biological factors indeed probably influence some people toward homosexuality. Either genetic inherited factors that cause gender non-conformity or prenatal hormonal influences, especially in men, that may result in low-masculinized brains. Any factor in the biological or social environment that makes a male feel less secure in his maleness has the potential to effect his gender identity.”
A potential may not be necessary; some will,some won’t, because human beings are complex and undergo a complex array of environmental factors. No single factor is always going to come in and change people. But, “none of these factors mean that homosexuality is normal and a part of human design.“
https://www.josephnicolosi.com/collection/robert-a-j-gagnon

I encourage people following this thread to read the entire article.

About the author:

Robert A. J. Gagnon is an American associate professor of the New Testament at the Pittsburgh Theological Seminary. He holds a BA from Dartmouth, a MTS from Harvard Divinity School, and a PhD from Princeton Theological Seminary. He is considered "the foremost traditionalist interpreter" on the issue of homosexuality in relation to Christianity and the Bible, and has published several books and articles on the subject, such as The Bible and Homosexual Practice.

 

[MennoSota]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
As in "gay pride"?

Certain sexual behaviors are still criminal. Sex with children (although the LGBTQ movement wants to abolish those archaic laws), sex with animals, and in certain cases, sex with one's close family member (homosexual incest is rarely if ever penalized).

Thoughts on those laws?



I'll be the first to admit that I'm "proud" to be a follower of Christ and embrace the things that He teaches (righteous laws, free will to overcome unnatural desires, etc. etc. etc.)



One that the LGBTQ movement wants to abolish. Sex with children is a mainstay with the LGBT movement. Did you know (amongst other things) that the LGBTQ movement founded the North American Man Boy Love Association, the Pedophile Information Exchange in the UK and was responsible for having child pornography legalized in Sweden years ago?

Did you know that most if not all LGBTQ icons were (and currently are) pedophiles or pederasts or promoted sex with children?

Pretty sick huh?



(Libertarian alert! Libertarian alert!)

To my knowledge prostitution is illegal in every State except in some counties in Nevada (San Franswishco, aka Sodomy and Gonorrhea South even voted against legalizing it). So much for your false statement.


When it comes to the indoctrination of children by the homosexual movement, I wasn't aware that those children "consented" to be told lie after lie by the LGBTQ degenerates.



Punishing one's sinful/criminal behavior often times is a wake-up call to those who have been leading immoral lives (they have a change of heart).



(I guess he likes the word repentance now).

Prison ministries does a pretty good job of sharing God's Word with those who are incarcerated.



If I should ever decide to be a sexual anarchist, i.e. sell out God and embrace laws as long as some kind of "consent" is used, I'll be sure to let you know (aCW checks his calendar looking for the day that Hell freezes over).

Nice avoidance.
You are a sinner. You are a law breaker. You will be judged as guilty. This is the truth as shared in the Bible.
Why are you not cast into hell immediately? Do you know the answer? Your behavior deserves it. Justice demands it. Why then are you not spending your life in hell?
One sin. One sin is sexual sin. Whether it is hetero or homosexual sex, it is sin when it is outside of the marriage union of one man and one woman. That's one sin, but there are hundreds of other sins. Many of the other sins are what you and I engage in. This makes us all guilty. Why doesn't God send us immediately to hell? We deserve it.
Now, what behaviors are so vile that human government needs to punish? You choose to believe that consensual same-sex sex deserves to be punished by jail time. You make a false and non-verifiable claim that same-sex sexual behavior is always abusive. You simply have no data.
You are disgusted with the propaganda being used to promote immoral sexual behavior. You should be. We all should be disgusted. Can we throw every marketing and advertising organization in jail who promotes behavior that is sinful, including those who promote pride in being wealthy, healthy and well educated? How far do you want to go?
Remember, there are many, many sins that God hates. Here are the seven expressed in Proverbs 6:16-19:
1) Haughty eyes
2) Lying
3) Killing innocent people
4) A heart that plots evil
5) Feet that race to do wrong
6) A false witness
7) One who sows discord
Your focus on one particular sin is interesting to me. Why just one? Why this particular one. It isn't even in the top seven (if sin can even be categorized by weight).
The government does punish pedophiles. It does punish non-consensual sex (rape). It punishes behavior that violates another person's right to life.
What is your particular gripe against those who engage in homosexual sex, while you ignore the sins of heterosexual sex? Do you work with any people who are practicing homosexuals? Have you listened to their everyday lives and how they participate in society with you and me? Have you prayed with them when their partner gets murdered by a random criminal who was trying to escape the law because he murdered others? I have. I've witnessed the heartache...the same heartache you would have if your loved one were senselessly murdered by a criminal. I pray for this person that God might become her savior, just as God has become my savior. She is a very nice and caring person. Her kindness is better than mine or yours. Why would I want her thrown in jail?
Look at the seven deadly sins and consider your own repentance.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Before I talk about Donald Trump's recent SCOTUS pick (a Barack Obama/Hillary Clinton supporting wrote an OP ED in the NYT saying nice things about him), I wanted to talk more about the recent SCOTUS decision regarding religious (i.e Christian) liberty in the Masterpiece Bakeshop v Colorado Civil Rights Commission decision.

Peter LaBarbera at Americans For Truth About Homosexuality realizes (contrary to what many faux conservatives are saying) that it wasn't a win for religious liberty.

Supreme Court’s Masterpiece Cakeshop Decision Just Kicks the Can Down the Road in Conflict Between Religious Liberty and Homosexual ‘Dignity’
June 9th, 2018
“One wonders how the case would have come out if the Colorado Commission had not been overtly hostile to Jack Phillips.”

https://americansfortruth.com/2018/...een-religious-liberty-and-homosexual-dignity/

I was curious as to what Donald Trump's supposed "conservative" SCOTUS pick Neil Gorsuch wrote on the decision.

Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, 584 U.S. __ (2018)
on writ of certiorari to the court of appeals of colorado
[June 4, 2018]

Justice Gorsuch, with whom Justice Alito joins, concurring.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/584/16-111/

I see the words "neutrality/neutral" in the article. I wasn't aware that a nation could embrace religious freedom and at the same time be "neutral" towards it.


Perhaps someone could explain how that is possible?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

,,,You choose to believe that consensual same-sex sex deserves to be punished by jail time. You make a false and non-verifiable claim that same-sex sexual behavior is always abusive. You simply have no data.

(Gay Christian alert! Gay Christian alert!)

Physically, emotionally and spiritually abusive. I have the data (CDC, the Holy Bible, etc.).

Maybe you could come forward with someone who is in a non abusive same sex relationship and I could ask him or her a few questsons to make my point?

Your focus on one particular sin is interesting to me. Why just one? Why this particular one.

To put it plain and simply: I just don't think that a movement that founded the North American Man Boy Love Association, the Pedophile Information Exchange in the UK and was responsible for having child pornography legalized in Sweden, and whose leaders were and currently are pedophiles and pederasts, has societies best interests in mind.

 

[MennoSota]

To put it plain and simply: I just don't think that a movement that founded the North American Man Boy Love Association, the Pedophile Information Exchange in the UK and was responsible for having child pornography legalized in Sweden, and whose leaders were and currently are pedophiles and pederasts, has societies best interests in mind.

What specific organization are you referring to?
Now we can get down to the nuts and bolts of what it is that bothers you.
Propaganda campaigns often bother me as well.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

What specific organization are you referring to?
Now we can get down to the nuts and bolts of what it is that bothers you.
Propaganda campaigns often bother me as well.

I edited my last post. Please feel free to reply.

,,,You choose to believe that consensual same-sex sex deserves to be punished by jail time. You make a false and non-verifiable claim that same-sex sexual behavior is always abusive. You simply have no data.

(Gay Christian alert! Gay Christian alert!)

Physically, emotionally and spiritually abusive. I have the data (CDC, the Holy Bible, etc.).

Maybe you could come forward with someone who is in a non abusive same sex relationship and I could ask him or her a few questsons to make my point?

By the way: contrary to the lies you've been spreading through your various usernames, not all of those that are subjected to the criminal justice system for violating criminal statutes do "jail time".

Let's pick up the pace on this conversation Aaron, as I don't have all day.

 

[MennoSota]

I edited my last post. Please feel free to reply.





(Gay Christian alert! Gay Christian alert!)

Physically, emotionally and spiritually abusive. I have the data (CDC, the Holy Bible, etc.).

Maybe you could come forward with someone who is in a non abusive same sex relationship and I could ask him or her a few questsons to make my point?

By the way: contrary to the lies you've been spreading through your various usernames, not all of those that are subjected to the criminal justice system for violating criminal statutes do "jail time".

Let's pick up the pace on this conversation Aaron, as I don't have all day.

Only one username.
No, I have been happily married to one woman for over 20 years.
Do you often avoid the issue and make false accusations about posters when they dig down to the root of the issue in your life?
Now, provide the documentation from reputable research organizations regarding the physical, emotional and spiritual abuse that is rampant among same sex attractions.
Please note that anyone who breaks the laws regarding abuse should be reported to authorities and justice should be served. This is for all peoples who violate the laws of the land.
Finally, why would any same-sex attracted person want to talk with you when you are displaying hatred and false accusation? They would be fools to talk with you.
The obvious thing that anyone reading our dialogue can note is that you have significant anger problems that are not coming from God.