ECT WHY GENTILES ARE IN THE BODY ??

[turbosixx]

So nobody got "saved" by the twelve preaching the gospel of the kingdom?

If someone did, show me.

Were they just really bad at preaching the "one true gospel"?

They saved 3,000 in one day. What changed?

What that conversion means is completely IRRELEVANT

I suggest if we really want to understand truth we need to understand what it means because that is what will allow their sins to be blotted out and bring the times of refreshing

 

[turbosixx]

The body of Christ is not Israel.

It sure is.

Gal. 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[Right Divider]

If someone did, show me.

So what is your claim? That they were just really bad at preaching the "one true gospel"?

Isn't the preaching the gospel the "power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth"?

They saved 3,000 in one day. What changed?

Nothing changed... your interpretation is badly flawed.

I suggest if we really want to understand truth we need to understand what it means because that is what will allow their sins to be blotted out and bring the times of refreshing

In the FUTURE!

 

[Right Divider]

It sure is.

Gal. 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Two groups mentioned there.

 

[turbosixx]

So what is your claim?

My claim is, before Pentecost the preaching of the 12 saved no one but on Pentecost 3,000 were saved. Something had to have changed in order for mens sins to be forgiven.

In the FUTURE!

Are you saying that after hearing Peter they could not have repented and had their sins forgiven?
Acts 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

 

[turbosixx]

Two groups mentioned there.

I've read several commentaries and they all agree the Israel of God is the church.

Paul tells us who is a true Jew.
Rom. 2:28 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—

Col. 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

 

[genuineoriginal]

Hi and the original Greek should reign BUT they all need to be checked for accuracy !!

The modern definitions used for the original Greek words should also be checked for accuracy and for whether the meanings are vastly different than they were when the Bible was written.

 

[Right Divider]

My claim is, before Pentecost the preaching of the 12 saved no one but on Pentecost 3,000 were saved. Something had to have changed in order for mens sins to be forgiven.

So the years of preaching the gospel of the kingdom was useless? You have some very strange ideas.

Are you saying that after hearing Peter they could not have repented and had their sins forgiven?
Acts 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

What "translation" are you trying to push?

Everything there is about the future

Acts 3:19-21 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:19) ¶ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; (3:20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: (3:21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. ​

It does NOT say "so that", but WHEN.... AND he SHALL SEND.... This all MATCHES perfectly with what Peter writes in his epistles.

1Pet 1:5 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. ​

What future salvation is Peter talking about?

 

[genuineoriginal]

The Lord can forgive sins anytime that He wants.

God can do anything He wants anytime He wants because He is God Almighty.
However, there is a vast difference between what God can do (is capable of doing) and what God will do.
If God spells out specific things He requires us to do before He WILL forgive sins, then we can be assured that He will not forgive sins until those things have been done by us.

 

[Right Divider]

I've read several commentaries and they all agree the Israel of God is the church.

Your "several commentaries" are wrong.

Paul tells us who is a true Jew.
Rom. 2:28 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—

Col. 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Romans 2:28 refers to ACTUAL JEWS.

Rom 2:17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:17) Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
​

Phil and Col are using spiritual analogies.

In Phil, Paul is simply making a CONTRAST:

Phil 3:2-3 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:2) Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. (3:3) For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. ​

It's not hard to understand, but you're so caught up in "Churchianity" and commentarianism that you cannot see anything else.

 

[Danoh]

The modern definitions used for the original Greek words should also be checked for accuracy and for whether the meanings are vastly different than they were when the Bible was written.

You two sure complicate the obvious.

All one need do is apply basic, 4th Grade Elementary School Rules of Grammar.

All of which boil down to the rule that one basically derives the intended meaning of words being used simply by focusing on how they are being used.

Nehemiah 8:8

 

[DAN P]

I've read several commentaries and they all agree the Israel of God is the church.
/QUOTE]


Hi , and what does EKKLESIA mean ?

EK means OUT !!

LESIA means a CALLING !!

Then EKKLESIA means a calling out OR and ASSEMBLY or a CONGREGATION !!

The B O C is also called an ASSEMBLY which is different !!

dan p

 

[genuineoriginal]

You two sure complicate the obvious.

All one need do is apply basic, 4th Grade Elementary School Rules of Grammar.

All of which boil down to the rule that one basically derives the intended meaning of words being used simply by focusing on how they are being used.

If you use definitions that did not exist when the words were written, you will end up with a false understanding of what the writer intended to be read.

 

[turbosixx]

So the years of preaching the gospel of the kingdom was useless? You have some very strange ideas.

Not the way I see it. The kingdom was established by Jesus DBR.

(1:5) Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. ​

What future salvation is Peter talking about?

It looks like from the context the prior verse answers it.
1 Pt. 1:4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,

Peter is talking about now not the future. If they repent and are converted it's not a future forgiveness of sins but now. He then says that all the prophets from Samuel on spoke of "these days".

Acts 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

Could they not have their sins forgiven when Peter said this?

 

[Danoh]

If you use definitions that did not exist when the words were written, you will end up with a false understanding of what the writer intended to be read.

Not at all.

I don't go by dictionaries.

Rather, by how words are used.

That is exactly how words come to mean or to represent any...intended meaning - by how...they are used.

And all the other rules that apply to that - the who; what; where; when; why; and how.

Result?

I am one of very few on TOL hardly ever needing to ask any poster what they had meant by their words.

I have learned how to...read what it s written.

This issue is literally that simple.

The thing to do is to ignore what one thinks any word...might be...referring to.

Not doing is always a key pitfall.

The thing to do is to start from scratch...each and every time.

No matter what one has previously learned and or concluded.

So as to be able focus instead, and afresh each time...on the whole of all...that has been said...or written.

Why?

Because as "it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4.

"So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading" Nehemiah 8:8.

How?

Via EVERY Word...

Acts 17: 11, 12.

 

[turbosixx]

I've read several commentaries and they all agree the Israel of God is the church.
/QUOTE]


Hi , and what does EKKLESIA mean ?

EK means OUT !!

LESIA means a CALLING !!

Then EKKLESIA means a calling out OR and ASSEMBLY or a CONGREGATION !!

The B O C is also called an ASSEMBLY which is different !!

dan p

Different from what?

Did those on Pentecost who answered the call have their sins forgiven?

 

[genuineoriginal]

I have learned how to...read what it s written.

This issue is literally that simple.

The thing to do is to ignore what one thinks any word...might be...referring to.

Not doing is always a key pitfall.

The thing to do is to start from scratch...each and every time.

No matter what one has previously learned and or concluded.

That is a great way to do Bible study.

I don't go by dictionaries.

That could present a problem.

There is a thread called Do Christians Have 'Vile' Bodies? that is asking whether our bodies are truly vile.

It is based on this verse:

Philippians 3:21 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.​

Without looking at a dictionary, what do you think "vile" means in that verse?

 

[turbosixx]

Romans 2:28 refers to ACTUAL JEWS

Yes, he is addressing the Jews but he is explaining to them who is really a Jew in God's eyes.
Rom. 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

What in your understanding makes someone a Jew?

Phil and Col are using spiritual analogies.

WE ARE the circumcision and YOU WERE also circumcised are not analogies. They are statements of fact. He explains how we are and you were in each passage.

Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,


Col. 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Danoh]

I've read several commentaries and they all agree the Israel of God is the church.

Paul tells us who is a true Jew.
Rom. 2:28 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—

Col. 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Nope.

In Romans he is contrasting between the Jew under the Law who asserted he was a Jew merely outwardly: and the Jew who actually was a Jew, under the Law.

The Lord had noted the same distinction between Jews under the Law, at the end of John 5.

In contrast,, in Philippians and Colossians, Paul is noting a distinction between people who, in rebellion to his gospel, would attempt to lead the Body member to focus on outward performance for what Christ has already fully accomplished in the Believer's inward man, Gal. 6:15.

No thanks, Turbo.

The truth of Rom. 5:6-8 - in each our stead - is more than sufficient.

 

[Right Divider]

Yes, he is addressing the Jews but he is explaining to them who is really a Jew in God's eyes.
Rom. 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

What in your understanding makes someone a Jew?

It depends on the context. Sometimes it means Israelite, other times it means someone from the tribe of Judah, other times it means anyone of the southern two tribes (as apposed to the ten northern tribes).

Paul is simply saying that actual Jews (regardless of which of the three types I just mentioned) must still be BELIEVERS or they will be rejected by God.

Paul is NOT saying that Gentiles become Jews by inward circumcision.

God always told Israelites that they need to be circumcised in their heart and not just their body.

Deut 10:16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(10:16) Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. ​

WE ARE the circumcision and YOU WERE also circumcised are not analogies. They are statements of fact. He explains how we are and you were in each passage.

Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,

Col. 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Gal. 3:29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

OK, I understand that you will never understand.... Just put the Bible in a blender and make a mess of it.