ECT WHY GENTILES ARE IN THE BODY ??

[DAN P]

Hi to all the confusion concerning salvation is easy to see , that this is the times of the GENTILES !!

#1 , Why are GENTILES , saved today is because it is GENTILES that are sitting in the pews today , and will mostly never hear the Gospel of GRACE !!

#2 We see from 2 Cor 3:15 that Jews have been BLINDED and EVEN DURING , Paul's time did not understand when they read the Law of Moses , 2 Cor 3:15 !!

#3 Israel will be saved as a NATION as Rom 11:26 says , all Israel will be saved !!

#4 Today only INDIDIVUAL Jews are saved TODAY , 2 Cor 3:16 !!

dan p

 

[genuineoriginal]

Hi to all the confusion concerning salvation is easy to see , that this is the times of the GENTILES !!

#1 , Why are GENTILES , saved today is because it is GENTILES that are sitting in the pews today , and will mostly never hear the Gospel of GRACE !!

#2 We see from 2 Cor 3:15 that Jews have been BLINDED and EVEN DURING , Paul's time did not understand when they read the Law of Moses , 2 Cor 3:15 !!

#3 Israel will be saved as a NATION as Rom 11:26 says , all Israel will be saved !!

#4 Today only INDIDIVUAL Jews are saved TODAY , 2 Cor 3:16 !!

dan p

The parallel accounts of the Olivet Discourse in Luke and Matthew show that the times of the Gentiles is the same as the great tribulation.

Luke 21:20-24 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.​

Matthew 24:16-21 King James Version (KJV) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

 

[DAN P]

The parallel accounts of the Olivet Discourse in Luke and Matthew show that the times of the Gentiles is the same as the great tribulation.

Luke 21:20-24 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.​

Matthew 24:16-21 King James Version (KJV) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

Hi and who has been in Control of the Jews , the Gentiles are in control NOW !!

Even Ezek 30 :3 mentions this !!

dan p

 

[genuineoriginal]

Hi and who has been in Control of the Jews , the Gentiles are in control NOW !!

Yes, we are currently in the time of the great tribulation and have been in it for almost 2000 years.

 

[turbosixx]

#3 Israel will be saved as a NATION as Rom 11:26 says , all Israel will be saved !!

26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27
“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

This is how they will ALL be saved by the new covenant that forgives sins.

Has Jesus established the new covenant?

 

[jamie]

Dan seems to believe Jacob only had one son.

He ignores the other eleven.

 

[DAN P]

Yes, we are currently in the time of the great tribulation and have been in it for almost 2000 years.

Hi go , and what verse do you believe , shows that the Great Tribulation began ??

Do you believe that there are 2 parts in the TRIBULATION ?

dan p

 

[genuineoriginal]

Hi go , and what verse do you believe , shows that the Great Tribulation began ??

According to Luke, the great tribulation would begin shortly after Jerusalem was surrounded by armies.
According to History, this happened in 66 CE and the believers fled Judea when that happened and went to Pella.

Do you believe that there are 2 parts in the TRIBULATION ?

The great tribulation that Jesus spoke about was the exile of the children of Israel from the land of promise.
After the tribulation will be a time of gathering of the children of Israel back to the land, followed by God's wrath against the nations for their treatment of the children of Israel during their exile.

In Revelation, the great tribulation takes place during the seven seals, the gathering takes place during the seven trumps, and the wrath of God on the Gentiles takes place during the seven bowls.

 

[DAN P]

According to Luke, the great tribulation would begin shortly after Jerusalem was surrounded by armies.
According to History, this happened in 66 CE and the believers fled Judea when that happened and went to Pella.


The great tribulation that Jesus spoke about was the exile of the children of Israel from the land of promise.
After the tribulation will be a time of gathering of the children of Israel back to the land, followed by God's wrath against the nations for their treatment of the children of Israel during their exile.

In Revelation, the great tribulation takes place during the seven seals, the gathering takes place during the seven trumps, and the wrath of God on the Gentiles takes place during the seven bowls.

Hi and what about the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Vials , and where do you place them ?

dan p

 

[DAN P]

According to Luke, the great tribulation would begin shortly after Jerusalem was surrounded by armies.
According to History, this happened in 66 CE and the believers fled Judea when that happened and went to Pella.


The great tribulation that Jesus spoke about was the exile of the children of Israel from the land of promise.
After the tribulation will be a time of gathering of the children of Israel back to the land, followed by God's wrath against the nations for their treatment of the children of Israel during their exile.

In Revelation, the great tribulation takes place during the seven seals, the gathering takes place during the seven trumps, and the wrath of God on the Gentiles takes place during the seven bowls.

Hi and what about the 7 Trumpets ??

dan p

 

[Interplanner]

DanP wrote:
and will mostly never hear the Gospel of GRACE !!




As usual, I have no idea what you mean.

 

[Interplanner]

GO wrote:
After the tribulation will be a time of gathering of the children of Israel back to the land, followed by God's wrath against the nations for their treatment of the children of Israel during their exile.




There is no basis for this in the NT. None of the summaries of what happens in the 2nd coming have any hint of this. It may be a vestige of a thought from early Genesis, but it is of no concern in the NT which is the official interp of the OT, for ex., 'the Seed' was Christ, not many people. All things now transact and transpire in Christ.

The time of great turmoil of Mt24, Mk13, Lk21 was the destruction of the city and temple in that generation, as it says in ordinary language (no pictures/parables to interpret).

 

[genuineoriginal]

Hi and what about the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Vials , and where do you place them ?

I already mentioned them.

In Revelation, the great tribulation takes place during the seven seals, the gathering takes place during the seven trumps, and the wrath of God on the Gentiles takes place during the seven bowls.

The seven trumpets are not part of the great tribulation Jesus prophesied about, also known as the time of Jacob's trouble.
The seven trumpets happen after the end of the great tribulation.
At the end of the seven trumpets is the Resurrection of the believers in Christ, commonly known as the Rapture.
From that time until the battle for Jerusalem at Armageddon is the seven bowls of God's wrath being poured upon the Gentile nations for their treatment of the children of Israel during their great tribulation.

 

[genuineoriginal]

GO wrote:
After the tribulation will be a time of gathering of the children of Israel back to the land, followed by God's wrath against the nations for their treatment of the children of Israel during their exile.

There is no basis for this in the NT.

There are hundreds of verses in the prophecies of the Old Testament that support this.

The time of great turmoil of Mt24, Mk13, Lk21 was the destruction of the city and temple in that generation, as it says in ordinary language (no pictures/parables to interpret).

The destruction of the city and temple was only the beginning of the exile from the land that was prophesied against the children of Israel.
The days of the destruction of the city and temple was not cut short, it is the days of the exile that would be cut short.
According to Leviticus 26, each subsequent punishment against the children of Israel would be seven times greater than the one before.
The children of Israel had already gone through 70 years of the first exile, then they went through the prophesied 70 * 7 years where they were allowed back into the land with a rebuilt temple but still under the rule of Gentiles, the great tribulation would therefore have been 70 * 7 * 7 years (3430 years) if it ran its full length, but it would be cut short so the total time of exile would fit another prophecy.

Hosea 6:2 2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.​

If a thousand years is as a day, then the prophecy in Hosea would mean the exile of the children of Israel would last at least two thousand years but would end before three thousand years had passed.

 

[DAN P]

26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27
“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

This is how they will ALL be saved by the new covenant that forgives sins.

Has Jesus established the new covenant?

Hi and what are the Jewish people today worshiping , the LAW of Moses !!

Because Christ had not yet come !!

They , Israel are not in the LAND !!

Israel has yet to be saved !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27
“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

This is how they will ALL be saved by the new covenant that forgives sins.

Has Jesus established the new covenant?

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

When?

More on that in a sec...

But first, the fact that God IS able to graft them in again....

11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Now, back to this WHEN issue...despite His having concluded the rest blind...

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

"Blindness" (a hardening) "in part (that is to say, temporarily) is happened to Israel..."

How long?

"...until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."

Next verse - "And so all Israel shall be saved.

...as it is written..."

When?

At His return...

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Verse 20 is not conditioned on verse 19. Rather, verse 19 depends on verse 20.

Note the next passage...

3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Which is what this is...

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

When will He take away their sins?

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

When the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

In other words, when the Father shall send back Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto them.

3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

That destruction happens when He returns.

Which is this...

Isaiah 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence. 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Which is why Paul ends that part of Romans with...

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

At the same time that he once more mentions there that an interruption of that has taken place and that God is now doing something else during said interruption.

Just as he had reminded them of that in Romans 9's "What if God willing to shew forth His wrath...endured..."

He then says something more about this interruption, and what God was now doing during said interruption...

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Paul's point being that even though God was now not dealing with Israel as a nation, nor per His Covenants with them, He had not left them out in the cold during His interruption of that.

Both issues are still in God's mind...

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

As Paul reminds the Romans in chapter 15; the Romans knew these things.

Thus, Paul's writing to them is more a further elaborating on some of those things and reminder of them to the Romans. He writes as if he had expected that they knew these things and would thus be able to fill in all the gaps we have to search out in Scripture.

Keep that in mind about Paul's writings - they are often reminders of things his readers had already been taught.

Even his "Behold I shew you a mystery" in 1 Cor. 15, is not new. It is a reminder to the Corinthians of what he and or his fellow laborers had already taught them.

Acts 17: 11, 12.

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[DAN P]

I already mentioned them.


The seven trumpets are not part of the great tribulation Jesus prophesied about, also known as the time of Jacob's trouble.
The seven trumpets happen after the end of the great tribulation.
At the end of the seven trumpets is the Resurrection of the believers in Christ, commonly known as the Rapture.
From that time until the battle for Jerusalem at Armageddon is the seven bowls of God's wrath being poured upon the Gentile nations for their treatment of the children of Israel during their great tribulation.

Hi and I believe that the trumpets are indeed all part of the tribulation and Rev 4:1 says , and I will shew thee the things which must be HERE AFTER !!

What verse are you using to prove that Rapture happening after the 7 trumpets , since there is NOT a Greek word for RAPTURE ??

Where did you find it ??

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and what are the Jewish people today worshiping , the LAW of Moses !!

That doesn't mean they're right.

Rom. 10:1 Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

Did Jesus establish the new covenant?

 

[turbosixx]

You forget the context of Rom. 11.

Rom. 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,

Rom. 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

The ALL is the remnant.

The church is the true Israel.
Gal. 6:16 And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—

When will He take away their sins?

Lk.24:47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[DAN P]

You forget the context of Rom. 11.

Rom. 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,

Rom. 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

The ALL is the remnant.

The church is the true Israel.
Gal. 6:16 And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—



Lk.24:47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Hi and you forget what Acts 2:38 really means !!

#1, And Ptere DECLARED / SAID is in the Greek IMPREFECT TENSE , WHY ??

It means that Peter will not be saying again and stop reminding , them of this declaration !!

#2 , Then Peter says to them , Israel , REPENT / CHANGE YOUR MIND about the crucifixion of Jesus !!

#3 , And be BAPTIZO / CLEANSED / WASHED in the name of Jesus Christ !!

#4, For the forgiveness of sin , of killing Jesus !!

#5 And you WILL RECEIVE , is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , why use the Future tense here , BECAUSE of Isa 6 6-13 and Luke 13:6-9 and 2 Cor 3:13-15 , Israel eill soon be SET ASIDE , and God will reaise up a apostle with a new message of GRACE !!

#6 And when the B O C is caught up to be with Christ , the in Rom 11:26 , God will again deal with Israel and not until then !!

dan p