Why Faith NOT Works Counts For Righteousness

R

Robert Pate

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Banned
"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that Justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

"For if Abraham was justified by works, then he has something to glory about, but not before God. For what does the scripture say, Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that does works is the reward not of grace, but of debt" Romans 4:2-4.

The reason that works does not count for righteousness is because the work of salvation has already been accomplished by the doing and the dying of Jesus. God now sees all that have faith in his Son Jesus Christ as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. It is not possible to make yourself any better by doing works or trying to be obedient according to the law. Christ is our righteousness, Romans 3:26.

While Jesus was dying on the cross he said... "It is finished". Everything had been accomplished for the salvation of fallen man. The law had been fulfilled and our sins and the sins of the world had been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. Because of Jesus it is now possible for sinners to be justified and reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
 
jamie

jamie

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Robert Pate said:
While Jesus was dying on the cross he said... "It is finished". Everything had been accomplished for the salvation of fallen man.
Click to expand...

What was finished? Was salvation finished? Was everyone saved that could be saved? If not then salvation was not finished.

The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised up his hand to heaven and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer, but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
(Revelation 10:5-7)​
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Robert Pate said:
"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that Justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

"For if Abraham was justified by works, then he has something to glory about, but not before God. For what does the scripture say, Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that does works is the reward not of grace, but of debt" Romans 4:2-4.

The reason that works does not count for righteousness is because the work of salvation has already been accomplished by the doing and the dying of Jesus. God now sees all that have faith in his Son Jesus Christ as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. It is not possible to make yourself any better by doing works or trying to be obedient according to the law. Christ is our righteousness, Romans 3:26.

While Jesus was dying on the cross he said... "It is finished". Everything had been accomplished for the salvation of fallen man. The law had been fulfilled and our sins and the sins of the world had been atoned for, 1 John 2:2. Because of Jesus it is now possible for sinners to be justified and reconciled unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
Click to expand...

The works that no longer save are the purification/ceremonial works.

Just think, the Jews did those purification works for over 1,600 years. The Gentiles did NOT do those works, they were UNCLEAN and DEAD IN THEIR SINS, because they did not have the sign of circumcision. The Gentiles were without God in the world because the Jews had the tent, and later the temples to go where God's Spirit was. God was among His people, His people who obeyed Him and cleaned themselves.

Since Jesus, THOSE WORKS NO LONGER mean anything. That does NOT mean we no longer have to obey God, it means we no longer have to get circumcised and give animal sacrifices, etc.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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Paul in NO WAY was preaching that we no longer have to obey God.

Nowhere anywhere in the Bible are we ostracized for obeying Jesus' commands, nothing like what happens to me here.

Who would ever get that it is shameful and wrong, and even condemnable to say you are saved because you followed what the Way said to do?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
God's Truth said:
The works that no longer save are the purification/ceremonial works.

Just think, the Jews did those purification works for over 1,600 years. The Gentiles did NOT do those works, they were UNCLEAN and DEAD IN THEIR SINS, because they did not have the sign of circumcision. The Gentiles were without God in the world because the Jews had the tent, and later the temples to go where God's Spirit was. God was among His people, His people who obeyed Him and cleaned themselves.

Since Jesus, THOSE WORKS NO LONGER mean anything. That does NOT mean we no longer have to obey God, it means we no longer have to get circumcised and give animal sacrifices, etc.
Click to expand...

HOGWASH!

You need to stop trying to do in your flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
jamie said:
What was finished? Was salvation finished? Was everyone saved that could be saved? If not then salvation was not finished.

The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised up his hand to heaven and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer, but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
(Revelation 10:5-7)​
Click to expand...

When Jesus entered into heaven all of God's new humanity entered in with him, 2 Corinthians 5:17.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
RELIGION: Man's attempt to do in his flesh what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ

RELIGION: Man's attempt to do in his flesh what God has ALREADY done in Jesus Christ

There are many religious people on the Forum. They all have one thing incommon, they are all attempting to do in their flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ.

Catholics are trying to reconcile themselves to God by the works of the law. Of course they will say that it is the grace of Jesus in them that is causing them to do the good works. Problem is that God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. We only have the "first fruits" of the Holy Spirit or the down payment, Romans 8:23. Not enough to make one holy.

The scripture plainly says that, "All things are of God, who has reconciled us into himself by Jesus Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:18. Nothing about the Catholic church reconciling anyone to God. Jesus Christ is God's reconciler. Not any religion or whatever. Jesus in our name and on our behalf has done all that is necessary to reconcile us to God. No one can reconcile themselves to God by what they do or by what they have become. If you have not been reconciled to God by the doing and the dying of Jesus, then you have not been reconciled.

And then there are some poor blind souls on the Forum that believe that God has predestinated them to salvation. God does not predestinate, God reconciles people to himself by Jesus Christ. No predestination needed. All that God does, he does in and through his Son Jesus Christ. Outside of Jesus Christ he does nothing, Colossians 1:14-17. God said, "This is my beloved Son" 1 Peter 1:17. Believe on him.
 
chrysostom

chrysostom

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Robert Pate said:
Catholics are trying to reconcile themselves to God by the works of the law. Of course they will say that it is the grace of Jesus in them that is causing them to do the good works. Problem is that God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners.
Click to expand...

none of this is true -
the church teaches:
-redemption
-repentance
-forgiveness
-grace
-work
-mercy
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
The works that no longer save are the purification/ceremonial works.

Just think, the Jews did those purification works for over 1,600 years. The Gentiles did NOT do those works, they were UNCLEAN and DEAD IN THEIR SINS, because they did not have the sign of circumcision. The Gentiles were without God in the world because the Jews had the tent, and later the temples to go where God's Spirit was. God was among His people, His people who obeyed Him and cleaned themselves.

Since Jesus, THOSE WORKS NO LONGER mean anything. That does NOT mean we no longer have to obey God, it means we no longer have to get circumcised and give animal sacrifices, etc.
Click to expand...

Same old hogwash .....

Abraham was saved when he believed. You can't ever get that right, can you? :nono:
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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glorydaz said:
Same old hogwash .....

Abraham was saved when he believed. You can't ever get that right, can you? :nono:
Click to expand...

Abraham would never have been saved if he did NOT obey.

Abraham obeyed from the beginning, AND EVEN SO---his faith was TESTED by God.

God tested Abraham's faith.

How did God test Abraham's faith?

What did Abraham HAVE TO DO that God said?
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Robert Pate said:
There are many religious people on the Forum. They all have one thing incommon, they are all attempting to do in their flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ.

Catholics are trying to reconcile themselves to God by the works of the law. Of course they will say that it is the grace of Jesus in them that is causing them to do the good works. Problem is that God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners. We only have the "first fruits" of the Holy Spirit or the down payment, Romans 8:23. Not enough to make one holy.

The scripture plainly says that, "All things are of God, who has reconciled us into himself by Jesus Christ" 2 Corinthians 5:18. Nothing about the Catholic church reconciling anyone to God. Jesus Christ is God's reconciler. Not any religion or whatever. Jesus in our name and on our behalf has done all that is necessary to reconcile us to God. No one can reconcile themselves to God by what they do or by what they have become. If you have not been reconciled to God by the doing and the dying of Jesus, then you have not been reconciled.

And then there are some poor blind souls on the Forum that believe that God has predestinated them to salvation. God does not predestinate, God reconciles people to himself by Jesus Christ. No predestination needed. All that God does, he does in and through his Son Jesus Christ. Outside of Jesus Christ he does nothing, Colossians 1:14-17. God said, "This is my beloved Son" 1 Peter 1:17. Believe on him.
Click to expand...

You are not so unlike those poor souls, for you have talked yourself into trusting your faith only.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
Abraham would never have been saved if he did NOT obey.

Abraham obeyed from the beginning, AND EVEN SO---his faith was TESTED by God.

God tested Abraham's faith.

How did God test Abraham's faith?

What did Abraham HAVE TO DO that God said?
Click to expand...

The obedience of faith, God's untruth. You keep denigrating belief and trust in Jesus Christ and HIS work on the cross. Shame on you.
 
Nameless.In.Grace

Nameless.In.Grace

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Banned
Why Faith NOT Works Counts For Righteousness

God's Truth said:
You are not so unlike those poor souls, for you have talked yourself into trusting your faith only.
Click to expand...

GT,

Could you help me better understand what Ephesians 2 means in light of your words?

Without abrogating it's meaning with the word obey.

That would be twisting Pauls choice of words, and I know you believe in the absolute integrity of scripture as I do.


8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift— 9 not from works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.
 
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