You may doubt my sun surface walking ability if you wish, but you do so at your own risk.
Stuart
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This is a new section being rolled out to attract people interested in exploring the origins of the universe and the earth from a biblical perspective. Debate is encouraged and opposing viewpoints are welcome to post but certain rules must be followed. 1. No abusive tagging - if abusive tags are found - they will be deleted and disabled by the Admin team 2. No calling the biblical accounts a fable - fairy tale ect. This is a Christian site, so members that participate here must be respectful in their disagreement.
Why Evolution is real science - let's settle this "debate"!
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Stuart
7djengo7
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Oh. Thanks for the warning.
Why would you say such a ridiculous thing?
Evolution is the idea that all life is descended by means of random mutations and natural selection from a universal common ancestor. To restrict it to "within kinds" is to posit inanity.
Do you spend any time at all considering what the opposing point of view is?
No, I wouldn't.
There is no prerequisite needed to oppose an idea. People are free to do that for any or no reason.
This is just silly games on your part. Try engaging sensibly. :up:
:yawn:
You seriously have nothing to offer, do you?
Stay away. :up:
This silly attempt to prove Evolution and Bible are possible is just plain disproved by the simple fact there has never been nor could ever be a single example of evolution found.
Th eOP has obviously never watched flashflood video and seen the mass of debris a flash flood can displace and carry along until finding a place to drop and sort it hydraulically.
The video fo the Condit Dam removal shows this perfectly!
Th eOP has obviously never watched flashflood video and seen the mass of debris a flash flood can displace and carry along until finding a place to drop and sort it hydraulically.
The video fo the Condit Dam removal shows this perfectly!
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Interesting to see this from a secular source - so baldly stated and yet obviously so accepted as "fact" - truly a "just-so" story :chuckle:
A big dose of randomness and millions of years! Why of course! That must be it!
Charles Darwin, father of evolutionary biology, wrote in 1871 that life first emerged in “warm little ponds”, which he imagined to be small wells of water and chemicals, heated by the sun and surrounded by rocks and air. With these few ingredients and a big dose of randomness, he posited, the basic elements of life clicked together, leading to simple life forms, like bacteria. Their evolution over millions of years eventually led to the sophisticated life forms that now inhabit the planet. https://getpocket.com/explore/item/...rigins-into-question?utm_source=pocket-newtab |
A big dose of randomness and millions of years! Why of course! That must be it!
way 2 go
Well-known member
in Darwin's time it was a theory , now its just a story some refuse to let die
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I don't think that it was ever a theory. A hypothesis perhaps.
way 2 go
Well-known member
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hy·poth·e·sis
/hīˈpäTHəsəs/
noun
- a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.
way 2 go
Well-known member
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
The Bible takes no stand on that one way or the other. Hence, even creationists can be good Christians.
Well, let's look at that. Yes, God did say that the earth and water brought forth life. But only because he made it so:
Gen. 1:24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.
Darwin agreed:
There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species
I suppose I should point out that the origin of life had nothing to do with Darwin's theory of evolution. He assumed life began somehow,and described how it changed over time.
Well, let's take a look..
Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Nope. Nothing about vegetarians. You should go look for yourself.
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Your abuse of verse 24 is wrong.
Darwinism claims that ALL life has a SINGLE common ancestor.
So even if your "earth as creator" theory of "cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth" were true... it still does not match with Darwinism, as all of the other life forms on earth were already created by God directly before the supposed "evolution" of the rest.
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Suppose someone asked if you could discuss plumbing without discussing God. Would you give him the same answer?
That's one of the misconceptions that keeps you from the truth. Even Darwin thought God created the first living things.
"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species, 1872
Probably not, because plumbing doesn't upset you.
Then you've been giving everyone the wrong message. You don't need to be upset with evolution; it's just is a a specifi word for God's creation of life's diversity.
Yet plumbing is like science, methodologically naturalistic.
And creationism is a modern revision of Scripture.
No supposition; we can directly observe it, and it works just as Darwin said. We know a lot more of the details, but Darwin's four points remain as solid as ever.
Rather, it's "let's talk about the way it works, as opposed to the way some people have revised God's word about it."
That would be what I'd hope to see. But I see lots of people who identify as Christian who are much less honest and hard-working than many non-Christians. And yes, "no true Scotsman" applies here.
That doesn't mean I haven't been treated badly by Christians or exceptionally well by nonChristians, but generally I have seen this play out more often than not.
It's the way some of His creation works. He does most things by natural means in this world. Why would He create nature and then not use it?
Protons and hemoglobin don't come to mind, either. But they are just as true as evolution.
Well, evolution doesn't have water hammer, either. Don't see your point.
Nope. You just inserted that into the verses to make them more acceptable to you.
Wrong. Generally, evolution means "change." Specifically, in biology, it means "change in allele frequencies in a population over time."
Which is the way God creates new taxa. I notice many creationist groups are willing to accept this for new species, genera, and families. Sometimes, they'll go a bit farther than that.
That's a problem, but this is where evolution is being discussed. Since as Darwin and other theists and even agnostics agree, it does reflect religious issues, even if science can't assess such things.
As most Christians acknowledge, there is no conflict between scripture and evolution. It's a modern revision of scripture that makes it so.
That's one of the misconceptions that keeps you from the truth. Even Darwin thought God created the first living things.
"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved."
Charles Darwin, last sentence of On the Origin of Species, 1872
Probably not, because plumbing doesn't upset you.
Then you've been giving everyone the wrong message. You don't need to be upset with evolution; it's just is a a specifi word for God's creation of life's diversity.
Yet plumbing is like science, methodologically naturalistic.
And creationism is a modern revision of Scripture.
No supposition; we can directly observe it, and it works just as Darwin said. We know a lot more of the details, but Darwin's four points remain as solid as ever.
Rather, it's "let's talk about the way it works, as opposed to the way some people have revised God's word about it."
That would be what I'd hope to see. But I see lots of people who identify as Christian who are much less honest and hard-working than many non-Christians. And yes, "no true Scotsman" applies here.
That doesn't mean I haven't been treated badly by Christians or exceptionally well by nonChristians, but generally I have seen this play out more often than not.
It's the way some of His creation works. He does most things by natural means in this world. Why would He create nature and then not use it?
Protons and hemoglobin don't come to mind, either. But they are just as true as evolution.
Well, evolution doesn't have water hammer, either. Don't see your point.
Nope. You just inserted that into the verses to make them more acceptable to you.
Wrong. Generally, evolution means "change." Specifically, in biology, it means "change in allele frequencies in a population over time."
Which is the way God creates new taxa. I notice many creationist groups are willing to accept this for new species, genera, and families. Sometimes, they'll go a bit farther than that.
That's a problem, but this is where evolution is being discussed. Since as Darwin and other theists and even agnostics agree, it does reflect religious issues, even if science can't assess such things.
As most Christians acknowledge, there is no conflict between scripture and evolution. It's a modern revision of scripture that makes it so.
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You have it exactly backwards... no surprise.
It is great to hear you using the old appeal to popularity again though. Keep up the good work!
Lon
Well-known member
Er, 'plumbing' doesn't evolve. "Evolve" doesn't mean change. It means 'by its own bootstraps.' You may not want it to mean that, which would explain a bit about you, but it does. They way you use it? That isn't a huge problem, but things don't/cannot change by themselves so "adapt' is out. A generic 'change?' Most won't argue that and it is important, every time you enter these conversations on TOL, to remember. Sometimes, your issues are self-made by not remembering.
Again, be careful with terms. "In the beginning, God 'created' the heavens and the earth." Be careful always, and spell it out; what you mean else many will always wonder at your conviction and devotion to God.
In the interim, this was moved to the 'science' section so some of my problems aren't evident here.
Show. Post the scriptures and examples.
I'd suggest some of this is self-fulfilling. I've been hurt in church, no question, but "Love hardly notices when someone does it wrong." The mention here then, for me, is anti-productive. We need to talk rather about ways to encourage good behavior. Some of my favorite stories are about people who refused to say something bad, always attempted to say something positive, and found that people complained a lot less. Scripture calls us 'who are mature' to walk that way around the less mature around us. The only success I have in debate, is when I remember to do good to those who are in opposition. At the very least, you and I can talk without the labels. I do understand them.
Capitalism? It can have a good affect. The children of Israel complained all the time, its a good reminder to me to simply go to God with all these observations.
It has a 'hands-off' tenor to it. I believe Colossians 1:17 and John 15:5 means 'nothing' so I'd hope you can appreciate theology does indeed drive our science and I don't think Christians can help, but bring their strong faith, into everything they see from God.
"Where your heart is, there your treasure is also." When I read Colossians 1:16-20, and we've no idea what keeps atoms from blowing apart, that keeps them together, then these actually do come to my mind when I'm reading:
Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Simply this: without Darwin, I always believed God created everything. Did I believe there were dinosaurs? Yes. Did I believe Mammoth was related to elephants? Yes. Did I believe a whale originated from a weasel-like creature? No. With a scientific mind, I can rightly question that hypothesis with impunity by the rules of science. It is 'okay' to question what people think is an answer.
Incorrect. This again, is where 'evolution' means something different to you than the nonChristian. To him/her, evolution is a directionless change, that sometimes produces 'beneficially' (as if a godless universe perspective could qualify such an idea).
....and again 'on its own.' How could something be said to 'evolve' when God is directing, sustaining, the change? Thus 'evolution' is the word given. There was no doubt, Before 1859, nobody thought 'evolution' but they certainly saw change. Most thought "God's universe."
Man does a lot of taxonomy changes (Labradoodles). Whatever we do, God being involved with creation by sustaining power, means He will do what is necessary until He deems. While we may mourn the passing of the auk or dodo, some scientists don't seem to realize God will keep the balance. He's also given us caretaking of the earth, so some of this is due partially to our negligence, but it is also important to remember God is sovereign over His creation.
Its been moved out of the theology section so most of my contention is no longer an issue. This post was two years ago
Padding your data a bit. There are studies that people trust science a bit less these days. Nobody really argues the process, but conclusions and it is always a good thing. I can either show my work, or punt. I've no problem meeting skepticism.
Except when it says that God created man on day No. 6 of history.
Heck, Darwinists can't think.