ECT why don't you say the Our Father?

[chrysostom]

He wasn't asked, this is the sermon on the mount.

You tell me what he said.

NASB 9"Pray, then, in this way
KJV 9 After this manner therefore pray ye:
NIV 9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

Has the kingdom come?

this is really weak
and
you should know it
you don't use a nebulous part of a passage to trump something that is very clear

 

[turbosixx]

this is really weak
and
you should know it
you don't use a nebulous part of a passage to trump something that is very clear

You want it to be nebulous but it's not. It's simple to understand English. Word for word out of the KJV. 9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

 

[turbosixx]

this is really weak
and
you should know it
you don't use a nebulous part of a passage to trump something that is very clear

Let's look at the passage.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

When you say this prayer, are you in a closet or standing in the "mass" ?

Let me guess, this is nebulous too. I guess a lot of scripture is nebulous for you, but the teachings and traditions of the "church" are very clear.

 

[chrysostom]

Let's look at the passage.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

When you say this prayer, are you in a closet or standing in the "mass" ?

Let me guess, this is nebulous too. I guess a lot of scripture is nebulous for you, but the teachings and traditions of the "church" are very clear.

do you pray in the closet?

please answer this

 

[turbosixx]

do you pray in the closet?

please answer this

If you answer, do you pray the "Our Father" standing in "mass".

So he says, and I quote the KJV, "After this manner therefore pray ye:

You want to apply "after this manner" literally but "thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues" and "6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door," does not have to be applied literally.

 

[chrysostom]

If you answer, do you pray the "Our Father" standing in "mass".

So he says, and I quote the KJV, "After this manner therefore pray ye:

You want to apply "after this manner" literally but "thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues" and "6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door," does not have to be applied literally.

answer the question

do you pray in the closet?

 

[turbosixx]

answer the question

It's obvious you don't understand the passage.

 

[chrysostom]

I would answer you but it's obvious you don't understand the passage.

do you understand it?

do you pray in the closet?

 

[turbosixx]

do you understand it?

do you pray in the closet?

Your the one that takes the "Our Father" literally not me. If I understand "pray in this manner" does not mean say these exact words, why would I take "enter into thy closet" as do exactly this? If Jesus had said, "say this" or "this is what you pray" I would be praying that prayer. The passage is for our understanding and not to be done literally.

Going on vacation for a week. Thanks for your time. When I get back I'll see if you have a new thread I can chime in on.

 

[chrysostom]

Your the one that takes the "Our Father" literally not me. If I understand "pray in this manner" does not mean say these exact words, why would I take "enter into thy closet" as do exactly this? If Jesus had said, "say this" or "this is what you pray" I would be praying that prayer. The passage is for our understanding and not to be done literally.

Going on vacation for a week. Thanks for your time. When I get back I'll see if you have a new thread I can chime in on.

so you don't have to take anything in the bible literally
if
you don't pray in the closet with the door shut?

 

[chrysostom]

the Our Father contains a lot of theology
and
your beliefs should be consistent with that theology

 

[Danoh]

For all this thread has yet to accomplish given its poor basis, one might as well be asking why others don't pay their taxes as had been required during Reaganomics, or some other prior economy. The result has been the same - people going forth about this or that may have meant. To what end? That was then; the Mystery is now.

 

[chrysostom]

For all this thread has yet to accomplish given its poor basis, one might as well be asking why others don't pay their taxes as had been required during Reaganomics, or some other prior economy. The result has been the same - people going forth about this or that may have meant. To what end? That was then; the Mystery is now.

okay
so
this is your argument
but
it does not address the theology contained in the Our Father
so
are you suggesting there is no theology there?

 

[turbosixx]

so you don't have to take anything in the bible literally
if
you don't pray in the closet with the door shut?

I'm back.

I am applying this passage consistently as instruction and not to be taken literally which you are not.

I understand "pray in the closet" is teaching us how to pray to God and is not to be taken literally just as his prayer is teaching us how to pray and not to be repeated literally.

You on the other hand do not take literally whent he says "thou shalt not" and do it anyway which is not "playing it safe". And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues

Then you turn around and ignore After this manner therefore pray ye: and take it to be repeated literalyl.

 

[Interplanner]

Just a sidenote: do you happen to know any background on why the hit by Coldplay 'When I Ruled The World' uses the papal imagery in the video production?

 

[chrysostom]

I'm back.

I am applying this passage consistently as instruction and not to be taken literally which you are not.

I understand "pray in the closet" is teaching us how to pray to God and is not to be taken literally just as his prayer is teaching us how to pray and not to be repeated literally.

You on the other hand do not take literally whent he says "thou shalt not" and do it anyway which is not "playing it safe". And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues

Then you turn around and ignore After this manner therefore pray ye: and take it to be repeated literalyl.

so you don't take anything in the bible literally?

 

[turbosixx]

so you don't take anything in the bible literally?

You have anything in specific in mind?

 

[chrysostom]

You have anything in specific in mind?

that is a yes or no question

 

[chrysostom]

You have anything in specific in mind?

do you take anything in the bible literally?

 

[turbosixx]

that is a yes or no question

It appears to me it's an avoiding the discussion of the passage question.

I take this passage literally. Jesus starts the passage with what is to be taken literal in verse 1 "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them"