Why does Theology Change?

[Hobie]

Here is the change with Martin Luther...
"As Luther approached the city, he was overcome with emotion and fell to his knees calling out “Holy Rome, I salute thee.” As Luther entered the gates of Rome, he was bitterly disappointed. He had believed Rome to be the very epitome of purity, but in reality, Rome was a cesspool. A swamp that teemed with every kind of vice imaginable the likes of which he had never seen. Luther struggled to make sense of what he encountered, writing “No one can imagine what sins and infamous actions are committed in Rome; they must be seen and heard to be believed. Thus they are in the habit of saying, ‘If there is a hell, Rome is built over it: it is an abyss whence issues every kind of sin.’

Preoccupied with these thoughts, Luther made use of an indulgence the Pope had issued to anyone that ascended “Pilate’s Staircase” on their knees. While ascending the staircase, Luther heard a voice saying to him for the third time “The just shall live by faith”. Luther jumped to his feet and left the scene feeling ashamed and afraid – the verse seared on his soul. This was a turning point for Luther and one that would alter the course of his entire life." https://whatthebiblesaysabout.com/martin-luther-just-shall-live-faith/

This question comes from something I read that said basically that God's truth never changes but our understanding of it grows, thus our Theology changes as we build a 'better comprehension"..........

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[ttruscott]

This question comes from something I read that said basically that God's truth never changes but our understanding of it grows, thus our Theology changes as we build a 'better comprehension"..........

What are your thoughts on this?

Oh I agree and offer a bit too: I call these bits of new understanding a progressive revelation and progressive revelation seems to be par for the course from the OT to the New.

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand. From 12:9 we can see that the disclosing or unsealing of the angel's words (12:7) will not happen until the time of the end. Therefore, we can say with assurance that this verse bears witness that there will be an unsealing, disclosing or revealing at the time of the end. Therefore may I once again suggest that, in the end times, we will be given a new understanding, that is, a revealing of that which has been sealed previously.

This verse also tells us that the understanding of the new disclosures will not be possessed by everyone, but that this blessing will be possessed only by the wise, that is, the purified. I also suggest that because the verse says that it is the wise who shall understand, some in-depth study might be required to understand the new disclosures, that is, that these new revelations will not be blinding visions of light, but that they will most likely appeal to our reason. Stated another way, they will be doctrinal, that discipline that requires so much discipline.

And from the NT too:
John 16:25 These things have I (Jesus) spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. Which time was Jesus referring to? Was He speaking of a time more in the future (say like this time)? Well, if it was a time more in the future, then He would be referring to a future doctrinal revelation, would He not?

I guess that one way to tell the time of its fulfilment is to ask ourselves whether we (that is, our educated commentators) yet plainly know of the Father, or whether we do not have it so plainly yet? In other words, do we understand the Bible plainly, or does it yet speak to us in proverbs?

Revelation 10:8 Then the voice that I had heard from heaven spoke to me once more: "Go, take the scroll that lies open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land." 9 So I went to the angel and asked him to give me the little scroll. He said to me, "Take it and eat it. It will turn your stomach sour, but in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey." 10 I took the little scroll from the angel's hand and ate it. It tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it, my stomach turned sour. Very interesting, no? As a sign of the last days, we will receive (learn about) a scroll or KJV little book the diminutive form of the Greek biblos or in English, bible.

Since 'book' or 'scroll' denotes writing to me, I suggest that eating is a metaphor for reading the scroll and is used so we can get the analogy of sweetness and bitterness/ sour taste into the metaphor. To continue with this thought would take us to: I read the words on the little book and at first I thought they were very wonderful and gratifying (sweet) but later as I dwelt upon their meaning, I found them hard to digest, (sour in my stomach), that is, hard to accept in their full meaning. This leads me to consider that in the last days a new revelation will be learned that at first seems great but then makes us scared or dismayed as we learn its implications.

In the context of the next verse:
Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. This person who read and studied until he understood the words in the little book must go out and be a prophet from the Lord, probably teaching us the words/ideas/revelation of the little book. Have we seen him yet?

Since we all know the warnings of Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: I'd also suggest that this new revelation is probably more correctly called a new understanding of a previous revelation similar to the way we got a new understanding about the Messiah from Jesus and the Apostles.

So I guess we had all better be open to a theological explanation of God's reality about the Church and/or the world, one that is different from all previous explanations we have been taught. Might not such an occurrence put the Churches in the position of the Pharisees who rejected the new revelation of the Divine Christ, stuck on their old understandings of the theology of the scriptures and rejecting the new understanding written in the little book?

It is funny that people say "it is not in the scriptures" when they really mean "I was never taught an understanding of the scriptures in this way." How could they know the new revelation previous to its revelation???

 

[Hobie]

Oh I agree and offer a bit too: I call these bits of new understanding a progressive revelation and progressive revelation seems to be par for the course from the OT to the New.

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand. From 12:9 we can see that the disclosing or unsealing of the angel's words (12:7) will not happen until the time of the end. Therefore, we can say with assurance that this verse bears witness that there will be an unsealing, disclosing or revealing at the time of the end. Therefore may I once again suggest that, in the end times, we will be given a new understanding, that is, a revealing of that which has been sealed previously.

This verse also tells us that the understanding of the new disclosures will not be possessed by everyone, but that this blessing will be possessed only by the wise, that is, the purified. I also suggest that because the verse says that it is the wise who shall understand, some in-depth study might be required to understand the new disclosures, that is, that these new revelations will not be blinding visions of light, but that they will most likely appeal to our reason. Stated another way, they will be doctrinal, that discipline that requires so much discipline.

And from the NT too:
John 16:25 These things have I (Jesus) spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. Which time was Jesus referring to? Was He speaking of a time more in the future (say like this time)? Well, if it was a time more in the future, then He would be referring to a future doctrinal revelation, would He not?

I guess that one way to tell the time of its fulfilment is to ask ourselves whether we (that is, our educated commentators) yet plainly know of the Father, or whether we do not have it so plainly yet? In other words, do we understand the Bible plainly, or does it yet speak to us in proverbs?

Revelation 10:8 Then the voice that I had heard from heaven spoke to me once more: "Go, take the scroll that lies open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land." 9 So I went to the angel and asked him to give me the little scroll. He said to me, "Take it and eat it. It will turn your stomach sour, but in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey." 10 I took the little scroll from the angel's hand and ate it. It tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it, my stomach turned sour. Very interesting, no? As a sign of the last days, we will receive (learn about) a scroll or KJV little book the diminutive form of the Greek biblos or in English, bible.

Since 'book' or 'scroll' denotes writing to me, I suggest that eating is a metaphor for reading the scroll and is used so we can get the analogy of sweetness and bitterness/ sour taste into the metaphor. To continue with this thought would take us to: I read the words on the little book and at first I thought they were very wonderful and gratifying (sweet) but later as I dwelt upon their meaning, I found them hard to digest, (sour in my stomach), that is, hard to accept in their full meaning. This leads me to consider that in the last days a new revelation will be learned that at first seems great but then makes us scared or dismayed as we learn its implications.

In the context of the next verse:
Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. This person who read and studied until he understood the words in the little book must go out and be a prophet from the Lord, probably teaching us the words/ideas/revelation of the little book. Have we seen him yet?

Since we all know the warnings of Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: I'd also suggest that this new revelation is probably more correctly called a new understanding of a previous revelation similar to the way we got a new understanding about the Messiah from Jesus and the Apostles.

So I guess we had all better be open to a theological explanation of God's reality about the Church and/or the world, one that is different from all previous explanations we have been taught. Might not such an occurrence put the Churches in the position of the Pharisees who rejected the new revelation of the Divine Christ, stuck on their old understandings of the theology of the scriptures and rejecting the new understanding written in the little book?

It is funny that people say "it is not in the scriptures" when they really mean "I was never taught an understanding of the scriptures in this way." How could they know the new revelation previous to its revelation???

We need to read our Bibles and pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us in understanding and the fullness of truth.

 

[ttruscott]

We need to read our Bibles and pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us in understanding and the fullness of truth.

Yes. This could be described as sola scriptura as interpreted by the Holy Spirit, eh?

 

[Aimiel]

We need to read our Bibles and pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us in understanding and the fullness of truth.

While doing so: one must also realize that in this life there is no 'fullness of Truth,' as of yet; there won't be until God reveals His Mystery.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.​

 

[Bradley D]

I believe the study of the Bible is never ending. New revealtions constantly will be revealed. At the start we are but babes drinking milk. Later we gain more knowledge and hopefully wisdom. It is interesing to see how many different theologies are out there. Also doctrines.

 

[Aimiel]

We will literally spend the ages to come just studying what God did for those who have eternal life and what it took for Him to get each of them into Heaven.

That in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

There will be no grace required any longer, once we're in glorified bodies. We'll be looking into the grace that He extended toward each and every one of us and exactly what it took to get us into His fold. We'll start, maybe at Adam's house, listening to him talk about the grace that God showed him in the garden and in his home as he raised his children. Then we'll talk to Eve, Moses, Solomon, the apostles, our own ancestors (distant and near) and even our own neighbors and especially those who witnessed to us before we were saved. There will be no end to learning the depth, height, width and breadth of His Love but we will learn more and more about Him and be amazed at all that we learn; because He is so Great. He is HOLY!!! There really is NONE like Him!!!

 

[oatmeal]

Here is the change with Martin Luther...
"As Luther approached the city, he was overcome with emotion and fell to his knees calling out “Holy Rome, I salute thee.” As Luther entered the gates of Rome, he was bitterly disappointed. He had believed Rome to be the very epitome of purity, but in reality, Rome was a cesspool. A swamp that teemed with every kind of vice imaginable the likes of which he had never seen. Luther struggled to make sense of what he encountered, writing “No one can imagine what sins and infamous actions are committed in Rome; they must be seen and heard to be believed. Thus they are in the habit of saying, ‘If there is a hell, Rome is built over it: it is an abyss whence issues every kind of sin.’

Preoccupied with these thoughts, Luther made use of an indulgence the Pope had issued to anyone that ascended “Pilate’s Staircase” on their knees. While ascending the staircase, Luther heard a voice saying to him for the third time “The just shall live by faith”. Luther jumped to his feet and left the scene feeling ashamed and afraid – the verse seared on his soul. This was a turning point for Luther and one that would alter the course of his entire life." https://whatthebiblesaysabout.com/martin-luther-just-shall-live-faith/

This question comes from something I read that said basically that God's truth never changes but our understanding of it grows, thus our Theology changes as we build a 'better comprehension"..........

What are your thoughts on this?

Theology will always change.

However, in contrast to that, the word of God lives and abides forever,

As long as theologians are more interested in their own opinions over the word of God, theology is forever doomed to trends, opinions, factions, deterioration and change.

For those who hold the word of God as supreme, they will be blessed with the endeavor of building their house on a rock

 

[ttruscott]

As long as theologians are more interested in their own opinions over the word of God, theology is forever doomed to trends, opinions, factions, deterioration and change.

For those who hold the word of God as supreme, they will be blessed with the endeavor of building their house on a rock

It is sinfulness that causes people to ignore the Holy Spirit. The problem is that all interpretation of the scripture is biased upon what we have been taught yet we call it "scripture, the word of GOD" as if it were the Holy Spirit Himself. I hold the word of GOD supreme as interpreted by the Holy Spirit but many people reject my interpretation.

The Bible says just means this is what I think the Bible means... Proverbs 3:5 “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding... means to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit in truth, not the leading of your church theology. If this has not been experienced, then it should be sought after.

 

[oatmeal]

It is sinfulness that causes people to ignore the Holy Spirit. The problem is that all interpretation of the scripture is biased toward what we have been taught yet we call it "scripture, the word of GOD" as if it were the Holy Spirit Himself. I hold the world of GOD supreme as interpreted by the Holy Spirit but many people reject my interpretation.

The Bible says just means this is what I think the Bible means... Proverbs 3:5 “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding... means to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit in truth, not the leading of your church theology. If this has not been experienced, then it should be sought after.

Although I am not perfectly sure of all your exact meanings, it would seem that I agree with you for the most part.

Since God only is the author of scripture, not the writer with pen and ink, but the sole author, we must consider the scripture as words of God, who is the Holy Spirit. Thus it follows that we must respect the scripture as if it is the word of God, because it is the word of God.

The flip side of any coin is always instructive. If we rely simply on the Holy Spirit to teach us, then we have two questions.

1. Where did we learn that the Holy Spirit will teach us? The answer: from the written word of God

2. Why should we bother reading scripture if indeed the Holy Spirit will teach us everything we need to know?

Likewise, II Timothy 2:15 tells us that we are to be workman, rightly dividing the word of truth.

To be a workman, we must work. Who must work? We, the workman.

What process do we use? We rightly divide the word of truth so that we have the true word, thus showing ourselves approved unto God.

God is not going to spend much time teaching a lazy non workman.

He will work intimately and intensely with workman who actually work to rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[ttruscott]

Likewise, II Timothy 2:15 tells us that we are to be workman, rightly dividing the word of truth.

To be a workman, we must work. Who must work? We, the workman.

When I first was called I was called to study, I read the whole bible thru three times over three years with all the commentaries, theologies and systematic theologies I could find for another 4 years while I could feel Him fine tuning my thoughts. His leading was invaluable over the thoughts of others...

Then I was told to go out and live my life!

 

[oatmeal]

When I first was called I was called to study, I read the whole bible thru three times over three years with all the commentaries, theologies and systematic theologies I could find for another 4 years while I could feel Him fine tuning my thoughts. His leading was invaluable over the thoughts of others...

Then I was told to go out and live my life!

Awesome!

I have not stopped reading scripture, it is a constant and eternal source of God's life and light and love and goodness to my life

 

[Aimiel]

I believe that as the Body of Christ draws closer to God, due to necessity (evil men and seducers waxing worse and worse) we'll come to a point where we actually believe His Word and begin to obey the Great Commission: going into all the world, preaching the Gospel to every creature, healing sick, cleansing COVID19 patients, raising the dead and casting out demons. At one point we will actually enforce Jesus' victory over the spirit of Death and there will no longer be anyone dying on this planet; but, by that time, God's Mystery will already be lifted.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[keypurr]

One must study with prayer and discard tradition to find truth. 99% will fail to find truth. Keep seeking.

 

[Aimiel]

I stopped at this Scripture verse one day, wondering what it meant. I had to meditate it for some time (a week or more, as I recall) before I got the meaning, by revelation...

Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.

We bring to light what we have of His Word from memory while sharing with others and also we are given new understanding which is brought to light wherever two or more are gathered in His Name, because He is present.

… the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

When The Spirit of Prophecy moves upon believers: we're able to teach the revelations that He gives us and we can also prophesy in His Presence. Those of us who allow Him to can speak God's Words that He gives us. No one is exempted from this. Anyone can prophesy. All it takes is willingness and yielding to The Spirit of Prophecy. He longs to give us The Kingdom.

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

This is so simple, it's beautiful and powerful. Our God is so good. I thank God for His good gifts! :thumb:

 

[Hobie]

While doing so: one must also realize that in this life there is no 'fullness of Truth,' as of yet; there won't be until God reveals His Mystery.

But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.​

That has been revealed..
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

At the Second Coming, Christ will finish it.

 

[beloved57]

hobie

This question comes from something I read that said basically that God's truth never changes but our understanding of it grows, thus our Theology changes as we build a 'better comprehension"..........

I tend to agree !

 

[Nanja]

hobie



I tend to agree !

Me too !

 

[ttruscott]

It is certainly possible that the blasphemy of unconditional election and our inherited sin will be debunked by a future revelation, I don't necessarily believe that everyone's existence in the heavenly realms before the creation of the physical universe is the only answer, I do believe it is the best answer by far at this time.

To answer Why does Theology Change?
When I wrote:

So I guess we had all better be open to a theological explanation of God's reality about the Church and/or the world, one that is different from all previous explanations we have been taught. Might not such an occurrence put the Churches in the position of the Pharisees who rejected the new revelation of the Divine Christ, stuck on their old understandings of the theology of the scriptures and rejecting the new understanding written in the little book?"

in post 2, I was suggesting that the use of progressive revelation was to expose for us those who are more interested in their religious convictions than in following GOD's newly revealed interpretation of our reality.