ECT why do we need Jesus death for our salvation ?

[jamie]

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be." (Romans 8:7)

Adam could not be subject to God without God's Spirit. This is not to say Adam and Eve did not repent,
I suspect they did.

Repentance is a big part of being human.

 

[dodge]

jamie;5033645]"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be." (Romans 8:7)

Show me a scripture that says "before" Adam disobeyed God he had a carnal mind. Hint: it does not exist.

Adam could not be subject to God without God's Spirit. This is not to say Adam and Eve did not repent,
I suspect they did.

Jamie, before Adam disobeyed he nor Eve knew they were naked and UN-ashamed of their nakedness, but immediately after Adam disobeyed God they both knew they were naked and were ashamed of their nakedness.

When God covered Adam and Eve with animal skins blood was shed as a payment for their sin.

Repentance is a big part of being human.

Repentance is turning from sin and to God.

 

[glorydaz]

If it wasn't for Adam there would be no sin !

Do you really believe that? You don't think any of Adam's children would have sinned?

All of MAD is "sorta" !

What is that supposed to mean, and what does it have to do with this?

Jesus asked a lot of questions with questions do you believe Jesus was diverting ? I don't I believe Jesus asked questions to make people think.

That was Jesus. You were trying to divert.

 

[Danoh]

It's easier to blame Adam. It's a shame to see that is the first response of so many. :nono:


Blaming Adam is nothing but an excuse, and God says we are without one.

You once more reading into another's words...

Fact is, that a crack baby and or the offspring of severely alcoholic parents, will one day still have to deal with it's own responsibility for whatever actions the compulsion it has inherited from it's parents compel in it.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

 

[jamie]

Show me a scripture that says "before" Adam disobeyed God he had a carnal mind. Hint: it does not exist.

Hint: The gift of the Spirit is eternal life. This was represented by the tree of Life.

"And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat and live forever" (Genesis 3:22)

A natural body comes with a natural mind, what Paul referred to as a carnal mind.

Humans were intended to develop God's character and be given immortality.

"Blessed are those who do His commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter through the gates into the city." (Genesis 22:14)

The commandments define God's character.

 

[Bright Raven]

Hebrews 9:22 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

 

[dodge]

Hint: The gift of the Spirit is eternal life. This was represented by the tree of Life.

"And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat and live forever" (Genesis 3:22)

A natural body comes with a natural mind, what Paul referred to as a carnal mind.

Humans were intended to develop God's character and be given immortality.

"Blessed are those who do His commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter through the gates into the city." (Genesis 22:14)

The commandments define God's character.

Adam had no "natural" mind before he disobeyed God he had a spiritual mind as he knew no evil before he disobeyed God.

 

[dodge]

glorydaz;5033729]Do you really believe that? You don't think any of Adam's children would have sinned?

Yes ! Adam was the representative of the whole human race as in ALL HAVE SINNED and ALL DIE as a result, and that is why Jesus was NOT born of a human father the sin nature was broken in Jesus when Mary was over shadowed by the Holy Spirit.

What is that supposed to mean, and what does it have to do with this?

If MAD did not change the context of scripture it would not exist. You know like world not meaning world, whosoever not meaning whosoever, repentance being perverted into meaning for Israel only etc.

That was Jesus. You were trying to divert.

No, I was trying to get you to actually THINK.

 

[jamie]

Adam had no "natural" mind before he disobeyed God he had a spiritual mind as he knew no evil before he disobeyed God.

It's God's Spirit that produces a spiritual mind. It's God's Spirit that produces eternal life.

Adam helped himself to a tree that was not his, but the Father says: "Blessed are those who keep his commandments."

 

[glorydaz]

YOU and the others that deny scripture that says there is no sin nature have yet to explain why sinless babies die.No one ever claimed a baby is born sinning but they will ALL eventually sin as it is their nature.

Sinless babies die because it was part of the curse....from dust to dust. Yep, all would eventually sin. I'm not denying that. If you'd stop assuming so much, you might actually be able to have a dialogue instead of simply accusing.

 

[glorydaz]

You once more reading into another's words...

Fact is, that a crack baby and or the offspring of severely alcoholic parents, will one day still have to deal with it's own responsibility for whatever actions the compulsion it has inherited from it's parents compel in it.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Your excuse on ensuing explanation are equally vague.

Sin entered the world.....not man.

 

[dodge]

Sinless babies die because it was part of the curse....from dust to dust. Yep, all would eventually sin. I'm not denying that. If you'd stop assuming so much, you might actually be able to have a dialogue instead of simply accusing.

So you believe this is not true ?

Rom 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

You are simply believing what YOU want to believe even though it goes directly against scripture.

Hello ! No sin or sin nature NO death.

 

[Danoh]

So you believe this is not true ?

Rom 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

You are simply believing what YOU want to believe even though it goes directly against scripture.

Hello ! No sin or sin nature NO death.

Her and hers (those who hold her same view on that; like Jerry, for example) erroneously understand that passage as referring to a work; to some thing the person did.

Theirs is "you're a sinner because you sin."

Not Romans 5's "you sin because you're born in Adam's sin."

Meaning one COULD POSSIBLY EARN salvation.

Unaware that their view is actually an afront to the ONLY work that can save BOTH the worker and the non-worker: The Lord's work ALONE on that Cross.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

 

[glorydaz]

So you believe this is not true ?

Rom 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

You just said, yourself, that babies were sinless, but would sin eventually. Now you're changing your tune? Or perhaps you want to outsmart yourself and swallow whatever doctrine is convenient at the time. There are plenty of verses that show babies are not held accountable for sins they don't commit. "The wages of sin is death...." That is not speaking of physical death. And, yes, all are subject to physical death because of the curse on all of creation.

Isaiah 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Ezek. 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.​

You are simply believing what YOU want to believe even though it goes directly against scripture.

Hello ! No sin or sin nature NO death.

You're just like those Arians....they read the verses that speak of Jesus in His humanity and ignore the verses that speak of His deity.

Men do not have a sin nature....they have a human nature. If men had a sin nature then Jesus would have had one too, yet he didn't sin. Man is susceptible to sin because he lives in a body of flesh in a world of sin. So, save your dumbfounded HELLO for someone else. I'm not buying.

 

[glorydaz]

Her and hers (those who hold her same view on that; like Jerry, for example) erroneously understand that passage as referring to a work; to some thing the person did.

Theirs is "you're a sinner because you sin."

Not Romans 5's "you sin because you're born in Adam's sin."

Meaning one COULD POSSIBLY EARN salvation.

Unaware that their view is actually an afront to the ONLY work that can save BOTH the worker and the non-worker: The Lord's work ALONE on that Cross.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

FALSE PROPHET I see you now.

Not true, and it's ignorant of you to make that claim.

I see you're trying to gather all those who are weak and you're blaiming it all on MAD. What's funny is that others in MAD don't agree with Jerry and I on this, but you're trying to enlist your followers so you keep making these false charges.

You are the biggest instigator and worker of evil I have seen in quite some time. Talk about a wolf...you are a demonic wolf. I don't believe, for one second, you are saved. The only "wisdom" you posses is the carnal understanding of theology. There is no Holy Spirit in you.

2 Peter 2:2-3 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.​

 

[Danoh]

FALSE PROPHET I see you now.

Not true, and it's ignorant of you to make that claim.

I see you're trying to gather all those who are weak and you're blaiming it all on MAD. What's funny is that others in MAD don't agree with Jerry and I on this, but you're trying to enlist your followers so you keep making these false charges.

You are the biggest instigator and worker of evil I have seen in quite some time. Talk about a wolf...you are a demonic wolf. I don't believe, for one second, you are saved. The only "wisdom" you posses is the carnal understanding of theology. There is no Holy Spirit in you.

2 Peter 2:2-3 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.​

Coming from you, a person who has asserted she had once thought a similar thing of the Hybrids and their errors she now holds as her own; your above only shows you being the same old superstitious you :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

Coming from you, a person who has asserted she had once thought a similar thing of the Hybrids and their errors she now holds as her own; your above only shows you being the same old superstitious you :chuckle:

Wrong again. I never thought any such thing...except they were in error. When I realized the error was mine, I listened and learned.

You're the first person I've ever named as a False Prophet....more than one I've named false brethren, but you are a special sort. The evil is deep and the goal is sinister based on your pride alone. It's pride that brought you low, and it's pride that is making you enlist others to your side.

I've suspected from the first time I saw you post, and now I know. Your mask is fully off.

 

[Danoh]

Hint: The gift of the Spirit is eternal life. This was represented by the tree of Life.

"And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat and live forever" (Genesis 3:22)

A natural body comes with a natural mind, what Paul referred to as a carnal mind.

Humans were intended to develop God's character and be given immortality.

"Blessed are those who do His commandments that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter through the gates into the city." (Genesis 22:14)

The commandments define God's character.

God but that little dog is precious - thanks for the smile it just now inspired :thumb:

 

[dodge]

Her and hers (those who hold her same view on that; like Jerry, for example) erroneously understand that passage as referring to a work; to some thing the person did.

Theirs is "you're a sinner because you sin."

Not Romans 5's "you sin because you're born in Adam's sin."

Meaning one COULD POSSIBLY EARN salvation.

Unaware that their view is actually an afront to the ONLY work that can save BOTH the worker and the non-worker: The Lord's work ALONE on that Cross.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Good post Danoh ! Scriptural and factual. This witness is true and backed by scripture.

 

[dodge]

Wrong again. I never thought any such thing...except they were in error. When I realized the error was mine, I listened and learned.

You're the first person I've ever named as a False Prophet....more than one I've named false brethren, but you are a special sort. The evil is deep and the goal is sinister based on your pride alone. It's pride that brought you low, and it's pride that is making you enlist others to your side.

I've suspected from the first time I saw you post, and now I know. Your mask is fully off.

Oh the horror one who believes and follows the scripture more than the club loyalty.