why do liberals ALWAYS take the side of the vile?

[Town Heretic]

Call me a sadist, but I love having a page full of the most TOL posts possible.

:think:

I don't think he knew you could do that either. :chuckle: You have to love Cal. He's really bringing it this morning...dragging it on a sled to some extent, but bringing it nonetheless.

Okay, I have to run. I'll let you tell him about the whole wheel business.

:cheers: everyone.

 

[Granite]

I went to 30. Didn't want to bite off more than I could chew. Too much "god did it" or "liberal = evil" on one screen might start giving Google weird ideas about where I want to go to dinner tonight.

Chick-Fil-A?

 

[Caledvwlch]

Chick-Fil-A?

*Swish*

 

[Quincy]

I went to 30. Didn't want to bite off more than I could chew. Too much "god did it" or "liberal = evil" on one screen might start giving Google weird ideas about where I want to go to dinner tonight.

Not a fan of Chic fil a are you?? I don't know about you, but I'd hate getting ads featuring some smart alec cow instead of apples and bees :noid: .

Ok I stop, I don't want to derail all the important lib hate with levity and shenanigans.

 

[Caledvwlch]

Not a fan of Chic fil a are you?? I don't know about you, but I'd hate getting ads featuring some smart alec cow instead of apples and bees :noid: .

Ok I stop, I don't want to derail all the important lib hate with levity and shenanigans.

You have exposed my clever scheme.

 

[resodko]

Not too big on correct capitalization though.

i gave up capitalization and punctuation for lent, several years ago

liked it so much i just kept keepin on

Liberals always take the side of the vile. Except when they have supported abolition, women's suffrage, workers' rights, civil rights, the social safety net...

did liberals support all those when they were first proposed?

I don't support patriarchy. I don't support women being silenced.

many women should be silenced :idunno:

If I hadn't been following along for awhile, I would have sworn you guys were talking about Traditio :chuckle: .

cl's not racist enough

 

[Jose Fly]

Want national defense? A highway system? Want to make sure you aren't eating an unfortunate worker who fell into a meat grinder? How about a power grid or intelligence that keeps you safe? Guess what, pal: You, like everyone else who enjoys those benefits, kicks into the pot. Ante up. Complaining about taxes is juvenile, unrealistic, predictable, and completely lacking in any kind of realistic alternative (at least when it comes to a nation as large and complex as the United States).

It's like the old saying....there are no libertarians on airplanes. (Hint: What's the free market solution to poor safety practices?)

 

[Christian Liberty]

I already said I don't believe you want people to starve; you're just incredibly flip about the idea and about societal steps to prevent such a scenario. If you missed that post, not my problem. To say I think you "want people to starve" is a mistake at best and a lie at worst. Do better.



Show me a society, nation, civilization, anywhere that has ever functioned completely under a system of voluntary taxation. I'll wait.

Want national defense? A highway system? Want to make sure you aren't eating an unfortunate worker who fell into a meat grinder? How about a power grid or intelligence that keeps you safe? Guess what, pal: You, like everyone else who enjoys those benefits, kicks into the pot. Ante up. Complaining about taxes is juvenile, unrealistic, predictable, and completely lacking in any kind of realistic alternative (at least when it comes to a nation as large and complex as the United States).



Again...want, no. Allow, yes. It wasn't libertarians who ended child labor or a seven-day work week, I'll put it that way. Nor could a libertarian make any kind of honest or consistent case against such practices.



Maybe because such a "connection" isn't logical.



Which shows you don't know me and don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Child labor is a ridiculously broad term. I dont deny that it can be abused but I don't think it's inherently bad for a child to have a job.

You also pay taxes for the war on drugs, out of control police, war on middle eastern civilians, and so forth. I am not denying that people have to pay for stuff they use. I'm opposing forcing people to pay for stuff they don't want. Let the market decide.

 

[Granite]

Child labor is a ridiculously broad term.

Uh...no, it ain't.

I dont deny that it can be abused but I don't think it's inherently bad for a child to have a job.

Yet you'd do nothing to avoid or prevent abuses, correct? How or why would you justify intervention into a company's work practices?

You also pay taxes for the war on drugs, out of control police, war on middle eastern civilians, and so forth.

Indeed, and I'm not too happy about any of it. C'est la vie. Who out there is ever one hundred percent satisfied with their tax dollars at work? The public school system in my hometown blows. I chip in towards it like it or not because my taxes also help pay for the fire department two shakes from my driveway. That's the trade off. That's reality.

I am not denying that people have to pay for stuff they use. I'm opposing forcing people to pay for stuff they don't want.

What you want, simply put, is impossible.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Uh...no, it ain't.



Yet you'd do nothing to avoid or prevent abuses, correct? How or why would you justify intervention into a company's work practices?



Indeed, and I'm not too happy about any of it. C'est la vie. Who out there is ever one hundred percent satisfied with their tax dollars at work? The public school system in my hometown blows. I chip in towards it like it or not because my taxes also help pay for the fire department two shakes from my driveway. That's the trade off. That's reality.



What you want, simply put, is impossible.

I think it's possible to do better.

But if not,vthevrit response for a Christisn would be to refuse to condone evil all the same. Romans 3:8

 

[resodko]

Uh...no, it ain't.

is this child labor?

 

[Jose Fly]

Like I said earlier, I have a couple of friends who are libertarians (but were both massively bailed out by their parents when their businesses failed). Whenever their vision for "society" comes up, I always like to posit the following scenario...

Within this libertarian society, I own the land next to my friends. I decide to start a tire burning and nuclear waste storage service on the property. Obviously my neighbors don't like the smoke, smell, and radiation. But it's my property, so how do they stop me?

The answer I usually get involves resolving our dispute before some sort of council, group of landowners, or other entity. Ah, but what if I refuse to go? What if I tell my neighbors to get lost and stay off my property? How can they compel me to go?

I'll let Christian Liberty take it from here rather than post where my discussions with my friends always ends up. So CL, how does your libertarian society deal with this sort of situation?

 

[Christian Liberty]

Like I said earlier, I have a couple of friends who are libertarians (but were both massively bailed out by their parents when their businesses failed). Whenever their vision for "society" comes up, I always like to posit the following scenario...

Within this libertarian society, I own the land next to my friends. I decide to start a tire burning and nuclear waste storage service on the property. Obviously my neighbors don't like the smoke, smell, and radiation. But it's my property, so how do they stop me?

The answer I usually get involves resolving our dispute before some sort of council, group of landowners, or other entity. Ah, but what if I refuse to go? What if I tell my neighbors to get lost and stay off my property? How can they compel me to go?

I'll let Christian Liberty take it from here rather than post where my discussions with my friends always ends up. So CL, how does your libertarian society deal with this sort of situation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-market_environmentalism




As for bailing out by parents, I don't know what your friends did to end up in that spot, but libertarians aren't against charity. They are against stealing.

 

[Granite]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-market_environmentalism




As for bailing out by parents, I don't know what your friends did to end up in that spot, but libertarians aren't against charity. They are against stealing.

Do you have your own opinion you can give us in a few quick words?

 

[Granite]

I think it's possible to do better.

But if not,vthevrit response for a Christisn would be to refuse to condone evil all the same. Romans 3:8

That doesn't address a single thing I said. At all.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Is that what it is? He really seems callous and without empathy towards the less fortunate and most victims.

Also, the ongoing attack on the military is offensive. Not sure if I ever told you, but my nephew was in the military and my daughter just enlisted in the Air Force. He just runs his mouth with no regard for anyone or anything.

Of course, free speech and all doesn't mean one is free from getting blasted for their *brilliant ideas and lack of life experience*.

The truth is offensive sometimes. Sorry. Read Laurence Vance if you actually want to know why I'm against the military.

BTW: There are veterans who agree with me too. Jacob Hornberger is one of them.

 

[Jose Fly]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-market_environmentalism

That doesn't answer my question. In your society, how do you compel me to stop my tire burning and nuclear waste disposal service on my property? Or do you even try and stop me?

As for bailing out by parents, I don't know what your friends did to end up in that spot, but libertarians aren't against charity. They are against stealing.

It's the disconnect between "everyone should take care of themselves" and "I need bailed out to the tune of $50,000".

 

[Christian Liberty]

That doesn't answer my question. In your society, how do you compel me to stop my tire burning and nuclear waste disposal service on my property? Or do you even try and stop me?

Again, in a minarchist society the minarchist state would do it. in a free-market voluntarist society you would be taken to a private court. To pollute someone else's property would be aggression and they may well refuse to let you do it.

It's the disconnect between "everyone should take care of themselves" and "I need bailed out to the tune of $50,000".

You don't understand libertarianism and I imagine your friends don't either. Ayn Rand didn't understand it either, BTW.

libertarianism isn't about "everyone taking care of themselves" per say. That's a good thing to work towards, but it doesn't specifically have anything to do with libertarianism. Charity is a wonderful thing and will always be needed. What is not OK is taking from others by force.

 

[Jose Fly]

Again, in a minarchist society the minarchist state would do it.

How?

in a free-market voluntarist society you would be taken to a private court.

How? Like I said, I refuse to go.

To pollute someone else's property would be aggression and they may well refuse to let you do it.

How can they stop me?

You don't understand libertarianism and I imagine your friends don't either. Ayn Rand didn't understand it either, BTW.

libertarianism isn't about "everyone taking care of themselves" per say. That's a good thing to work towards, but it doesn't specifically have anything to do with libertarianism. Charity is a wonderful thing and will always be needed. What is not OK is taking from others by force.

There's a larger context there that you're not aware of. My friends and I have had lots of discussions where they preach "personal responsibility". Not only that, they seem pretty oblivious to the rare privilege of having parents who can bail them out with that much money.

Kinda like Mitt Romney's "get your parents to lend you money" thing, where he just assumed everyone in the US has parents who have lots of money.

Privilege is usually pretty oblivious to itself.

 

[Christian Liberty]

How?


How? Like I said, I refuse to go.


How can they stop me?


There's a larger context there that you're not aware of. My friends and I have had lots of discussions where they preach "personal responsibility". Not only that, they seem pretty oblivious to the rare privilege of having parents who can bail them out with that much money.

Kinda like Mitt Romney's "get your parents to lend you money" thing, where he just assumed everyone in the US has parents who have lots of money.

Privilege is usually pretty oblivious to itself.

While I wouldn't say my family is "poor" in a global context, we're not that well off by US standards. Not poor, but lower middle class for sure. I'm not really coming from a Romney type perspective.

Romney is a scumbag. He'll tell poor people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but he'll bail out big companies and banks, and he certainly won't tell the MIC to fund itself.

Nor would he ever dare reduce SS spending, although SS is far bigger a budget problem than temporary job assistance.

I'm not trying to say its practical to change this whole immoral system at once but Romney has his priorities in the wrong place. If I got to pick the order in which stuff would be removed, I'd remove corporate welfare and restrictions that make it hard for small businesses before removing temporary welfare assistance for poor individuals.

I'm not heartless toward the poor. I'm really not. A free market will make almost everyone richer. its also more moral.