ECT Why did Paul use the expression 'spiritual blessings of Israel' in rom 15:27?

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SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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Interplanner said:
Why are you so dishonest? That's v23. I'm talking about the accumulated 'promise' (hope, outcome) for Israel in v32+, which includes Is 55's reference to the promises to David being realized in Christ and his mission (see that context). And the resurrection of Jesus. God's purpose for David in his generation WAS OVER WITH, v36. He is not doing that again. The appeal of the new one is the mission to the nations.

This is not complicated. It is the end-game, the wrap-up of Israel's promise.

As I have said for a year, when the NT explains itself you and your club are the worst at subterfuge and lies. You force 2P2P all over the text. RD's today was a detonation of Heb 2 on the great salvation of the world to come.
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Same promise in verse 32 as in verse 23.
Very very simple.
You have an agenda, and therefore pervert it.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Interplanner said:
Why are you so dishonest? That's v23. I'm talking about the accumulated 'promise' (hope, outcome) for Israel in v32+, which includes Is 55's reference to the promises to David being realized in Christ and his mission (see that context). And the resurrection of Jesus. God's purpose for David in his generation WAS OVER WITH, v36. He is not doing that again. The appeal of the new one is the mission to the nations.

This is not complicated. It is the end-game, the wrap-up of Israel's promise.

As I have said for a year, when the NT explains itself you and your club are the worst at subterfuge and lies. You force 2P2P all over the text. RD's today was a detonation of Heb 2 on the great salvation of the world to come.
Click to expand...
More from the great babbler and fiction author.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Acts 13
13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
13:25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.
13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
13:28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
13:30 But God raised him from the dead:
13:31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.



Where is the great change in promise? No, it is the same promise.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Danoh said:
If I recall correctly, you assert he is talking about the ministration of righteousness by his gospel.

But he only touches on that; it is not what he is actually talking about in all that; for he is actually addressing the liberty in Christ from the bondage of the flesh that they have lost sight of; which is why those first two verses in that chapter, in contrast to its last one or two verses.

The actual issues he is dealing with there are Romans 7 and 8 issues.

They are looking at him after the flesh - this is what he is actually addressing.

It's a constant in his dealings with the Corinthians.

He is addressing their fleshly perspective.

2 Corinthians 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

The thing is solved for, sorted out, or understood - as to what he is actually talking about - based on that passage.

In contrast, your conclusion has him going, say, from saying "close the door, its cold outside..." to "let's go swimming." :chuckle:

In your assertions, what happened to what he began to address?

Anyway, that is what I am seeing. Feel free to correct me on my sense of your view; or whatever.

Prov. 27:17.
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I do not follow your post, fully.

Romans 15
15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.


Romans 1
1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
 
D

Danoh

New member
SaulToPaul said:
I do not follow your post, fully.

Romans 15
15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.


Romans 1
1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
1:12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Click to expand...

Lol - gotta luv ya.

But ya did it again...

"Close the door; its cold outside - let's go swimming - outside."

Seriously, bro, you can't see the holes in your above?

The spiritual gift (singular) is the Epistle to Romans itself, he says so once more, earlier in chapter 15.

And it is singular - this Epistle of his, to them.

Further, you yourself often assert that those mentioned later in Romans 15 had their own gospel.

And the fact is that "their spiritual things" differ.

While, what the Romans shared with them in that, did not: the gifts of the Spirit he mentions in Romans 12; as in 1 Cor. 12-14; and Eph. 4; etc., did.

All the result of what gift that that both share in common, though?

The New Testament's Spirit Himself.

That can't be right. According to your view, their salvation is yet future.

Fact of the matter?

When all the witness of that shifted over to God's witness thru that to Israel via the Body, that God had turned from Israel for a season "the...saints at Jerusalem" were left "poor."

But you also hold that the Romans were not in the Body. I hold otherwise.

The result being that all these little differences in the understanding of these things, cannot but impact in each of us, as to the overall understanding of all the other "spiritual things" as well, but also continue to reveal that something is amiss in the study approach of one us.

Romans is basically an extended "Bible conference" in written form.

As with Paul's practice, any "Grace Conference" worth its salt will "preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also."

In other words, to all in attendance, lost or saved.

That does not mean said Pastors do so because their attendees are lost, or what have you.

Rather, because that was both Paul's own God-given practice, and his mandate to Pastors, regardless of what their actual subject, or theme for said conference might be.

This is also their practice; every assembly meeting.

At least the more well-rounded and grounded ones.

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

THAT is Romans - a long, drawn out Bible conference of sorts, the gospel of Christ, included within all those subjects.

ALL ever based on...the gospel of Christ.

Because IT is "the foundation" and "let everyman take heed how he buildeth thereupon" 1 Cor. 3.

EVERY error promoted on here - on prayer, on giving, on works, on no works, on conduct, on this, on that, the other - all those are doctrines - and they all stand or fall on where the particular individual is, in his or her proper understanding of, and obedience to, the gospel of Christ, Rom. 1 and Rom. 15.

Meaning, Paul's intended "fruit" among the Romans is his hoped for his reaching of both the lost, and the saved at Rome.

Towards getting the one saved, and the other established, or fully grounded in the various, minute aspects of the faith.

While his main focus is in laying out the gospel of Christ all the issues he will be addressing those various assemblies at Rome, will be based on.

A very typical, Mid-Acts...practice.

And inn this, as a practice - even in their prayers - it is often obvious that Grace Pastors strive ever to be aware of the impact of their words as they pray within the hearing of others.

What does one often hear in those wonderful prayers?

Romans' dual pattern of both preaching to the lost, and edifying of the saved - that's what.

Both the gospel of Christ AND its' establishment truths.

Yours in him, bro, regardless of our different understandings...

Rom. 5:8
Eph. 4:16.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
Acts 13
13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
13:25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.
13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
13:28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
13:30 But God raised him from the dead:
13:31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.



Where is the great change in promise? No, it is the same promise.
Click to expand...

:idunno:
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
The sermon says what was accomplished through David was done with. so the 'restoration' would not be the same thing. It would be the blessings promised to David that would be realized through Messiah. That's what makes the reference to David's fallen tent so interesting in ch 15, because both passages are saying the same thing: the nations are coming into faith.

If you thought the one promise was the resurrection of Jesus, how would that wrap up everything promised to the fathers? You are obviously not paying attention.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
The sermon says what was accomplished through David was done with. so the 'restoration' would not be the same thing. It would be the blessings promised to David that would be realized through Messiah. That's what makes the reference to David's fallen tent so interesting in ch 15, because both passages are saying the same thing: the nations are coming into faith.

If you thought the one promise was the resurrection of Jesus, how would that wrap up everything promised to the fathers? You are obviously not paying attention.
Click to expand...

Where is the change in the promise?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
This is a terrible assault on the scriptures. You did not get this from Acts 13, but rather your agenda forces you to believe it.
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You need to diagram the sentence, and see that it is the reason Is 55 is quoted about David's promises. You obliterate the context, so what every line you write buries the context further. your thoughts have no connection at all to the sermon, to the setting, to the reactions of the Judaizers. He might as well have been talking to kids in a swimming pool who can't say complete sentences yet. Just thought you'd like to know how you come across.

I did a thread on this last month; same question: what is it about the resurrection the completes all promises to the nation? What is it that they were supposed to see finally? Open-ended questions like that bust your fragile brains and programprograms.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
Acts 13
13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
13:25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.
13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
13:28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
13:30 But God raised him from the dead:
13:31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.



Where is the great change in promise? No, it is the same promise.
Click to expand...

Singular promise, unchanged in the passage. To claim that all of the promises to Israel were summed up in the resurrection of Christ is an assault on the scriptures.
 
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