Interplanner
Well-known member
'tois pneumatikois auton ekoinonesan ta ethne...'
"to share spiritual blessings/gifts with the nations...'
"to share spiritual blessings/gifts with the nations...'
ECT Why did Paul use the expression 'spiritual blessings of Israel' in rom 15:27?
- Thread starter Interplanner
- Start date
- Status
Right Divider
Body part
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
What it actually says,
Romans 15
15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
15:22 For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you.
15:23 But now having no more place in these parts, and having a great desire these many years to come unto you;
15:24 Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company.
15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
Romans 15
15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
15:22 For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you.
15:23 But now having no more place in these parts, and having a great desire these many years to come unto you;
15:24 Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company.
15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
15:27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
Hi So that the Jews living abroad could be WON to Christ and that is why Gentiles had those SPIRITUAL GIFTS !!
Read 1 Cor 1:22 and 1 Cor 14:22 !!
dan p
Interplanner
Well-known member
I thought you thought spiritual and Israel never were to be combined. Because spiritual is idiotic, nonsensical, fairy tale, made up, bull crap.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Interplanner
Well-known member
Wow you are radical! So it also "actually" says vs 8-13, so why did Paul use the expression spiritual ____s? (To use the term 'koinoneia' calls for blessings or promises).
Right Divider
Body part
From you indeed!
How did Paul lay the foundation? In what way was HE the master builder?
Your fairy tale does not hold up to scrutiny.
Hi and that is what you believe Rom 15:27 means and Rom 15:27 is in Paul's ministry since the verb THEIR DUTY / OPHEILO is in the PRESENT TENSE and we see 2P 2P side by side for a little while longer ,HEH, HEH !!
dan p
Interplanner
Well-known member
It obviously means that the things that were spiritual blessings for Israel were for everyone. That there is not two schemes or programs, skewing the Bible all day long.
Hi and 2 Cor 3:13-16 , Israel Law was still in operation as verse 16 says and you have a problem !!
And you call the Law and GRACE , SCHEMES is BAD ??
dan p
Nope, you're off course; as usual...
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/15-27.htm
And never mind that your translation does not even follow the Apostle Paul's flow of thought there.
Result?
Your translation ends up making as much sense as a dream; wherein one takes one step forward only to find oneself in some other context altogether :chuckle:
And you are forever going on about how that the Dispensationalist is the one ever guilty of forcing a some other thought into a passage.
Fact is, Paul's sense there is the issue of the Gentiles' responsibility to materially look out for the Believing remnant of Israel that God's interruption of said Believing remnant's Acts 2's/Hebrews 2's amazing spiritual/physical foretaste of their world to come had left them basically without - had basically left them homeless, penniless, and perhaps a bit dis-spirited, being that they had sold all, as instructed; and towards their commission work; and had been prepped by the Lord to look to the Lord's return; but God had planned to temporarily interrupt said hope.
That passage is a kind of a book end passage to those passages in Romans 11 having to do with the imperitive on the Gentiles to be careful not to end up wise in their own conceits, given Israel's fall, etc.
But you are simply too far gone in your Reformed/Preterist notions of these things - here you are once more - dreaming up your own dreamworld of disconnected imagery.
Nevertheless, Romans 5:8 towards you.
For in a similar sense to Paul's there, in Romans 15:27, if, per Romans 5:8 God so commended His love toward me, in that while I was yet a sinner; Christ died for me; my duty to Him in the sight of God, is to commend said love towards you; not only regardless of where I strongly differ with you on one thing or another; but regardless of my not holding back on calling you out on a thing where I find said calling out is rightly called for.
For absent of that; there is no real point in all this going back and forth as to who is right about what.
Interplanner
Well-known member
DanP
Israel Law was still in operation
So...any time Israel's Law is in operation, "a veil covers their hearts." The veil would be that they forget that the original promise is that the Seed would bless all the nations in his Gospel. Sorry but I don't see God putting them under a veil when they could be without it the whole time, but I do see them making their minds dull, and being in spiritually childhood and needing the child-tender/sitter aspect.
Israel Law was still in operation
So...any time Israel's Law is in operation, "a veil covers their hearts." The veil would be that they forget that the original promise is that the Seed would bless all the nations in his Gospel. Sorry but I don't see God putting them under a veil when they could be without it the whole time, but I do see them making their minds dull, and being in spiritually childhood and needing the child-tender/sitter aspect.
Unless you use the QUOTE option, you have no business wondering why one or another of your posts went unanswered.
For absent of your use of said option, your post to them may end up buried in pages of replies to other things by a multitude of people, by the time your intended poster returns to the forum.
Out of sight, and out of mind, to your intended poster.
Quit being so lazy - even in this "things that differ are not the same" - use the QUOTE option.
Duh-uh.
Romans 5:8.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I think if you knew what the spirit of the new testament was, this would not be so confusing for you.
But you do not.
Interplanner
Well-known member
I'm sure that the apostles teaching is captured in my 'core NT doctrine' thread. With your continued dishonesty about Acts 13:23 vs 32, I'm sure that you do not know the NT. Reading Hebrews after your comments is like looking like a body after a strapped on IED has detonated.
Right Divider
Body part
You are fully and completely blind to the dispensation of the grace of God given to Paul.
This explains your infatuation with the book to the HEBREWS.
Nope - you too are actually reading something into Paul's use of the word "spirit" there, in 2 Cor. 3 - you have "spiritualized" that in your own way. :chuckle:
I know, I know; Romans 3.
But he is not actually talking about Romans 3, in 2 Cor. 3.
Rather, about Romans 6-7 kinds of issues, in light of the truth of Romans 8 (Romans 8 being what Romans 3 has resulted in enabling in the Believer).
Its why he then touches on the failure of those "children" in Moses day, and their own due time deliverance under their aspect of the New Testament's promise of the Spirit (that the Gentiles have been made "partakers of" Rom. 15:27) there, at the end of 2 Cor. 3.
You see this, that he only appears to have begun that chapter with?
This here...
2 Corinthians 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? Or do we need, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
That is merely more on this issue - which is a Romans 6-8 issue - this issue of the flesh, here...
2 Corinthians 10:1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you: 10:2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
That is the issue he is addressing there, in 2 Cor. 3, when he then goes into both its source: the letter of legalism in the heart of man, and its solution; the liberty of the Spirit of God in the spirit of men that the NT had promised Israel, but that the Body is made a partaker of, via Paul's Romans 3 gospel.
Romans 6-7 issues in light of Romans 8's liberation.
Anyway, thanks for the challenge your post on that has offered, once more - to reflect once more on how to best communicate to you my sense thru the Scripture, of what 2 Cor. 3 is actually going on about.
Rom. 5:8.
Hi and since 2 Cor 3:13-16 does not FAZE YOU , you will always VALIDATE my position , THANK YOU , THANK YOU !!
dan p
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
On the contrary, you are being dishonest about Acts 13.
Everyone else can see it.
- Status