Why Calvinist, Catholics, Others, Do NOT Have Saving Faith

[God's Truth]

Since Jesus saves and saves to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25, why would anyone need a religion?

Catholicism is self defeating. Catholicism means that you don't have faith in Christ and you had better do something to save yourself. Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.

Catholics believe in God and Jesus---YOU SAY we only have to believe---and now you say they are not saved!

Neither the Catholic nor you do what Jesus says to be saved, and that is to believe and obey him.

 

[Robert Pate]

Catholics believe in God and Jesus---YOU SAY we only have to believe---and now you say they are not saved!

Neither the Catholic nor you do what Jesus says to be saved, and that is to believe and obey him.

You are in the same boat with the Catholics. Trying to be saved by your obedience means that you don't believe that Jesus has already saved you by his obedience. You have not entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

 

[God's Truth]

You are in the same boat with the Catholics. Trying to be saved by your obedience means that you don't believe that Jesus has already saved you by his obedience. You have not entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

The difference from Catholics, Mormons, ALL DENOMINATIONS, even non denominational groups, and the difference from someone believing and never joining any group...the difference from you all to that of a saved person---is obeying Jesus. The saved believe and obey Jesus to get saved, and to stay saved.

Your faith alone teaching is just as wrong as the Catholics made up works they have to do and their disobedience to Christ in calling all their brothers 'father'. Your faith alone teaching is just as wrong as the Mormons not obeying and going to another gospel. Your faith alone teaching is just as wrong as all the false teachings that any and all denominations teach.

 

[God's Truth]

You are in the same boat with the Catholics. Trying to be saved by your obedience means that you don't believe that Jesus has already saved you by his obedience. You have not entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

The ceasing from works and resting in Christ is about the Jews no longer having to do all the purification/ceremonial works!

 

[Robert Pate]

The difference from Catholics, Mormons, ALL DENOMINATIONS, even non denominational groups, and the difference from someone believing and never joining any group...the difference from you all to that of a saved person---is obeying Jesus. The saved believe and obey Jesus to get saved, and to stay saved.

Your faith alone teaching is just as wrong as the Catholics made up works they have to do and their disobedience to Christ in calling all their brothers 'father'. Your faith alone teaching is just as wrong as the Mormons not obeying and going to another gospel. Your faith alone teaching is just as wrong as all the false teachings that any and all denominations teach.

Are you ready to stand before God in the judgment and present to him your righteousness?

 

[God's Truth]

Are you ready to stand before God in the judgment and present to him your righteousness?

I am living THROUGH God because I obey His words.

God is living THROUGH me because I obey His words.

 

[beloved57]

I am living THROUGH God because I obey His words.

God is living THROUGH me because I obey His words.

Don't you believe sinners Christ died for are stil lost ?

 

[God's Truth]

Don't you believe sinners Christ died for are stil lost ?

Jesus died for all men; and those who reject Jesus will be put in hell.

 

[beloved57]

Jesus died for all men; and those who reject Jesus will be put in hell.

Since you believe Christ died for sinners that are still lost, you deny His Ability to Save sinners !

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

The Catholic church does NOT obey God.

What do you mean by that?

The Catholic Church is composed of individuals. Some obey God better than others.

Just like any other group of Christians.

Jesus said it would be that way in His parable about the Weeds/Wheat in Matthew 13.

The Church does teach the obedience of faith....

"To obey in faith is to submit freely to the word that has been heard, because its truth is guaranteed by God, who is Truth itself." (Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 144)

....just like Saint Paul did in Romans 1:5 and 16:26.

We have to obey God to love God.

I agree that we can show our love for God through obedience to God.

Robert Pate is just as separate from God as he says the Catholic church is, because Pate also teaches he does not obey God.

I don't know about that. But Robert does have a tendency to misrepresent the teachings of the Catholic Church.

To me, that makes what he says about Calvinism and other topics untrustworthy.

 

[God's Truth]

Since you believe Christ died for sinners that are still lost, you deny His Ability to Save sinners !

No, those who reject him are the ones who deny him.

 

[beloved57]

No, those who reject him are the ones who deny him.

You deny that Christ saves sinners !

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Since Jesus saves and saves to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25, why would anyone need a religion?

Catholicism is self defeating. Catholicism means that you don't have faith in Christ and you had better do something to save yourself.

(Sigh)....you just did it again, Robert. No offense intended but you do not know what you are talking about when it comes to Catholicism.

Here's proof:

You said above: "Catholicism means that you don't have faith in Christ...."

The Church's teaching actually is: "Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent Him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation." (Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 161).

The actual teaching of the Church is again the exact opposite of what you think it is.

Are you really that ignorant of Catholic teaching or are you purposely lying about it?

Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.

And the teaching of the Catholic Church agrees with you completely:

"Salvation: the forgiveness of sins and restoration of friendship with God, which can be done by God alone." (Catechism of the Catholic Church page 898)

 

[God's Truth]

What do you mean by that?

The Catholic Church is composed of individuals. Some obey God better than others.

Just like any other group of Christians.

Jesus said it would be that way in His parable about the Weeds/Wheat in Matthew 13.

The Church does teach the obedience of faith....

"To obey in faith is to submit freely to the word that has been heard, because its truth is guaranteed by God, who is Truth itself." (Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 144)

....just like Saint Paul did in Romans 1:5 and 16:26.



I agree that we can show our love for God through obedience to God.



I don't know about that. But Robert does have a tendency to misrepresent the teachings of the Catholic Church.

To me, that makes what he says about Calvinism and other topics untrustworthy.

The Catholic church and its people do not obey God.

God says don't call your brothers in Christ 'father'; pray only to God; worship only God; Jesus is the one who mediates; do not make statues and bow to them; do not say you follow a mere man.

Those are many of the things Catholics do not obey.

Catholics call their brothers in Christ 'father'; they pray to Mary and other "Saints"; they bow to the pope; they use Mary as a mediator; they say they follow Peter; they bow to statues and incense them...

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

You are in the same boat with the Catholics. Trying to be saved by your obedience means that you don't believe that Jesus has already saved you by his obedience. You have not entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

No, Robert. It doesn't mean that.

God'sTruth must've read Hebrews 5:9 at some point:

"And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,"(Hebrews 5:9 NKJV)

Notice it doesn't say He is the author of eternal salvation to all who......believe only...or have faith alone....or avoid religion......

It says He is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

How can you say that obedience is unnecessary?

 

[God's Truth]

No, Robert. It doesn't mean that.

God'sTruth must've read Hebrews 5:9 at some point:

"And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,"(Hebrews 5:9 NKJV)

Notice it doesn't say He is the author of eternal salvation to all who......believe only...or have faith alone....or avoid religion......

It says He is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

How can you say that obedience is unnecessary?

Those are excellent scriptures proving we have to obey. What a great defense against Robert Pate and his false teachings.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

The difference from Catholics, Mormons, ALL DENOMINATIONS, even non denominational groups, and the difference from someone believing and never joining any group...the difference from you all to that of a saved person---is obeying Jesus. The saved believe and obey Jesus to get saved, and to stay saved.

Hey GT,

You seem to be thinking that if somebody joins a group..they cannot obey Jesus. Why do you think that? Does the Bible say that somewhere?

Your faith alone teaching is just as wrong as the Catholics made up works they have to do and their disobedience to Christ in calling all their brothers 'father'. Your faith alone teaching is just as wrong as the Mormons not obeying and going to another gospel. Your faith alone teaching is just as wrong as all the false teachings that any and all denominations teach.

Are you suggesting that people who belong to a group/denomination will have false teachings but people who do not belong to a group/denomination will not have false teachings?

Does the Bible say that somewhere?

Or is that perhaps a tradition that you hold to and possibly a false teaching?

I'm curious...what specifically are those who do not join a group so obedient about that those who join a group are not?

What specific things, would you say, shows the difference in obedience?

Thanks.

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

You are in the same boat with the Catholics. Trying to be saved by your obedience means that you don't believe that Jesus has already saved you by his obedience. You have not entered into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.

You should read Hebrews 4:11, Robert.

The very next verse says "Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience."

People are in danger of falling through their disobedience.

 

[God's Truth]

Hey GT,

You seem to be thinking that if somebody joins a group..they cannot obey Jesus. Why do you think that? Does the Bible say that somewhere?



Are you suggesting that people who belong to a group/denomination will have false teachings but people who do not belong to a group/denomination will not have false teachings?

I included them.

My point is that ANYONE who does not obey is not saved.

Does the Bible say that somewhere?

Or is that perhaps a tradition that you hold to and possibly a false teaching?

I'm curious...what specifically are those who do not join a group so obedient about that those who join a group are not?

Again, you did not read what I said. I included EVERYONE. I included those in denominations, non denominational, and even people who never join any group.

The only way to get saved and to stay saved is by obeying Jesus' teachings.

What specific things, would you say, shows the difference in obedience?

Thanks.

Peace.

God says do not call your brothers in Christ 'father', and many others things I posted for you.

 

[God's Truth]

The Catholic church and its people do not obey God.

God says don't call your brothers in Christ 'father'; pray only to God; worship only God; Jesus is the one who mediates; do not make statues and bow to them; do not say you follow a mere man.

Those are many of the things Catholics do not obey.

Catholics call their brothers in Christ 'father'; they pray to Mary and other "Saints"; they bow to the pope; they use Mary as a mediator; they say they follow Peter; they bow to statues and incense them...

Bard_the_Bowman,

Did you miss this post?