Why Calvinist Cannot Defend Their Doctrine of a Limited Atonement

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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
They can't defend it because there is no scripture to support it. Please show me one scripture that says Jesus only atoned for the sins of some, but not all. There is nothing, but there are plenty of scriptures that say that he has atoned for all of the sins of the whole world and that he is the savior of the whole world. Here are just some.

"And he is a propitation for our sins; and not ours only, but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2.

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the savior of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 4:14.

"God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

"For I came not to judge the world but to save the WORLD" John 12:47.

"For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten Son" John 3:16.

And then there are other scriptures like Hebrews 2:9 and 1 Timothy 4:10.

"That he by the grace of God should taste for EVERYONE"

"Because we trust in the living God who is the savior of ALL MEN"

I counted that there are about 75 scriptures that say Jesus is the savior of the world, all men, whosoever. I cannot find one scripture that says that he has only atoned for some sins but not all sins.

I mean if you are going to stake your eternal soul on a religion or a doctrine then you should be able to defend it. And I mean defend it without butchering the Bible or the word "World". So here is your chance Mr. and Mrs. Calvinist.
 
S

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Well we do need to keep in mind what goes along with that. Jesus done His part now its all up to God.

Like only those who keep His commandments will the atonement work.

I Jn 2:4
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
(NKJ)

And the atonement will only work on those that God has granted the right.

John 6:65
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
(NKJ)
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Squeaky said:
Well we do need to keep in mind what goes along with that. Jesus done His part now its all up to God.

Like only those who keep His commandments will the atonement work.

I Jn 2:4
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
(NKJ)

And the atonement will only work on those that God has granted the right.

John 6:65
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
(NKJ)
Click to expand...


We keep the commandments by being "In Christ".

God ses us as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

You can't keep the commandments because you are a sinner, Romans 3:10.
 
fishrovmen

fishrovmen

Active member
Robert Pate said:
Where are all of the defenders of this false doctrine?
Click to expand...

All you are interested in is making stuff up and false witness and arguing. You have no interest in actually defending your beliefs by making your case point by point. Sometimes you get so far, then you give up, and use a phrase such as "you are void of the Holy Spirit", or "it will all be clear in the judgment" etc.. I and many others have tried numerous times to understand your doctrines, and invest much time to do so, only to get so far with you where nothing was really explained.
You keep repeating your pet phrases rather than explaining what they mean, or how you come to understand them.
Every once in awhile I will test to see if you are interested in constructive discussion, at which point I will gladly take the time; but if all you want to do is to label and then judge people with what you perceive they believe and come to faulty conclusions, even when you are corrected multiple times, then I'm not interested.
 
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Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Robert Pate said:
They can't defend it because there is no scripture to support it. Please show me one scripture that says Jesus only atoned for the sins of some, but not all. There is nothing, but there are plenty of scriptures that say that he has atoned for all of the sins of the whole world and that he is the savior of the whole world. Here are just some.

"And he is a propitation for our sins; and not ours only, but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2.

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the savior of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 4:14.

"God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

"For I came not to judge the world but to save the WORLD" John 12:47.

"For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten Son" John 3:16.

And then there are other scriptures like Hebrews 2:9 and 1 Timothy 4:10.

"That he by the grace of God should taste for EVERYONE"

"Because we trust in the living God who is the savior of ALL MEN"

I counted that there are about 75 scriptures that say Jesus is the savior of the world, all men, whosoever. I cannot find one scripture that says that he has only atoned for some sins but not all sins.

I mean if you are going to stake your eternal soul on a religion or a doctrine then you should be able to defend it. And I mean defend it without butchering the Bible or the word "World". So here is your chance Mr. and Mrs. Calvinist.
Click to expand...

Are you insisting here that "world" always means all human beings?
 
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R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
fishrovmen said:
All you are interested in is making stuff up and false witness and arguing. You have no interest in actually defending your beliefs by making your case point by point. Sometimes you get so far, then you give up, and use a phrase such as "you are void of the Holy Spirit", or "it will all be clear in the judgment" etc.. I and many others have tried numerous times to understand your doctrines, and invest much time to do so, only to get so far with you where nothing was really explained.
You keep repeating your pet phrases rather than explaining what they mean, or how you come to understand them.
Every once in awhile I will test to see if you are interested in constructive discussion, at which point I will gladly take the time; but if all you want to do is to label and then judge people with what you perceive they believe and come to faulty conclusions, even when you are corrected multiple times, then I'm not interested.
Click to expand...


I don't judge anyone personally. However the Bible judges all things.

I try everything in the light of the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ. If it is not according to the Gospel it is rejected.

Since you are a Calvinist and Calvinism is anti-Gospel, we will not have much incommon.
 
Zeke

Zeke

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
They can't defend it because there is no scripture to support it. Please show me one scripture that says Jesus only atoned for the sins of some, but not all. There is nothing, but there are plenty of scriptures that say that he has atoned for all of the sins of the whole world and that he is the savior of the whole world. Here are just some.

"And he is a propitation for our sins; and not ours only, but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2.

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the savior of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 4:14.

"God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

"For I came not to judge the world but to save the WORLD" John 12:47.

"For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten Son" John 3:16.

And then there are other scriptures like Hebrews 2:9 and 1 Timothy 4:10.

"That he by the grace of God should taste for EVERYONE"

"Because we trust in the living God who is the savior of ALL MEN"

I counted that there are about 75 scriptures that say Jesus is the savior of the world, all men, whosoever. I cannot find one scripture that says that he has only atoned for some sins but not all sins.

I mean if you are going to stake your eternal soul on a religion or a doctrine then you should be able to defend it. And I mean defend it without butchering the Bible or the word "World". So here is your chance Mr. and Mrs. Calvinist.
Click to expand...

In this kingdom the doctrine of limited atonement is seen at work in the Elitist Families that run it, in their pyramid/cast systems that need lots of fodder/slave under them who are expendable and easy to indoctrinate through fear or anger.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Zeke said:
In this kingdom the doctrine of limited atonement is seen at work in the Elitist Families that run it, in their pyramid/cast systems that need lots of fodder/slave under them who are expendable and easy to indoctrinate through fear or anger.
Click to expand...

I can see where some elitist would believe that only their sins were atoned for.

The Pharisees also thought that they were God's special chosen ones, same as todays Calvinist.
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Robert Pate said:
It can mean anything that you want it to mean.

To me it means human beings and the whole created order.

Jesus as God's new Adam is the savior of the whole created order.
Click to expand...

Acts 19:27

27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.

And what does it mean here?
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
fishrovmen said:
All you are interested in is making stuff up and false witness and arguing. You have no interest in actually defending your beliefs by making your case point by point. Sometimes you get so far, then you give up, and use a phrase such as "you are void of the Holy Spirit", or "it will all be clear in the judgment" etc.. I and many others have tried numerous times to understand your doctrines, and invest much time to do so, only to get so far with you where nothing was really explained.
You keep repeating your pet phrases rather than explaining what they mean, or how you come to understand them.
Every once in awhile I will test to see if you are interested in constructive discussion, at which point I will gladly take the time; but if all you want to do is to label and then judge people with what you perceive they believe and come to faulty conclusions, even when you are corrected multiple times, then I'm not interested.
Click to expand...

Nope, you're wrong about Pate. I think you know that?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Brother Ducky said:
Acts 19:27

27 So that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.

And what does it mean here?
Click to expand...

There are many false God's, in Paul's day it was Diana.

What it come down to is what are you trusting in?
 
Brother Ducky

Brother Ducky

New member
Robert Pate said:
There are many false God's, in Paul's day it was Diana.

What it come down to is what are you trusting in?
Click to expand...

Forgive me, I think you misunderstood the point of the post. In this passage, Acts 19:27, the term "world" is used. I inquired as to how you would interpret it here. All human beings does not seem to fit. Neither does all the created order. However, a bunch of people from all over does seem to fit. Do you concur?
 
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