ECT Who was not ransomed?

musterion

Well-known member
“For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus; who gave Himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time” (I Timothy 2:5-6).

If you believe all here doesn't literally mean all, but really only means some, explain this passage.

Who was not ransomed?

Why were they not ransomed?

How do you know that?

Why did Paul use the word all when he did not mean literally all?

How do you know that?
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
[FONT=&]“For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus; who gave Himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time” (I Timothy 2:5-6).[/FONT]

If you believe all here doesn't literally mean all, but really only means some, explain this passage.

Who was not ransomed?

Why were they not ransomed?

How do you know that?

Why did Paul use the word all when he did not mean literally all?

How do you know that?

I can easily answer these questions, but I hesitate since you disrespect and consider me as being unlearned . . .
 

musterion

Well-known member
I can easily answer these questions, but I hesitate since you disrespect and consider me as being unlearned . . .

If you can answer them point by point, honestly and directly, feel free to take a shot. As if we don't already know what you'll say but...go ahead.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
[FONT=&]“For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus; who gave Himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time” (I Timothy 2:5-6).[/FONT]

If you believe all here doesn't literally mean all, but really only means some, explain this passage.

Whenever and wherever the word "all" is used, it usually is explained by context. In this passage, Paul is addressing Timothy within the context of Timothy leading a newly formed church of believers in Christ. The entire epistle is one of instruction given to Timothy, exhorting him to teach sound doctrine for the edification of the congregation (e.g. 1:3-4), to "fight the good fight" of inevitable spiritual warfare (e.g. 1:18-20), to practice intercessory prayer for all the members of the church (e.g. 2:1), and that all the male members be prayerful (e.g. 2:8), and the female members practice modesty and silence submission of ecclesiastical authority (e.g. 2:9-12), reviewed requirements for the elders and deacons (3:1-13), warnings about the expected propensity of false teachers and false doctrines (4:1-3), all of which would enhance Timothy's ministry (4:6-16), and instructions about how to treat all the members: elderly, widows both young and old, rewarding good Eldership, dealing with the lapsed sinners, honor bondservants, avoid those who are argumentative and the discontent, pride of the rich, and the babblings of those with profane knowledge, etc. (e.g. 5:1-6:21)

In other words, Timothy was going to be dealing with ALL KINDS of persons within his ministry. Paul's teaching in I Timothy 2:1-7 is directed to ALL the CHURCH under Timothy's care and who would be directed to the Mediatorship of Jesus Christ.

Who was not ransomed?

All those outside of faith in Jesus Christ.

Why were they not ransomed?

Romans 9:15-18

How do you know that?

Holy Scripture says that.

Why did Paul use the word all when he did not mean literally all?

Paul was not speaking of the world, universally, but was speaking of Timothy's church ministry and the persons who would be in Timothy's care.

How do you know that?

That was the purpose of Paul's epistle written (and inspired by the Holy Spirit) to Timothy.

The entire answer to all your questions, is the context and to whom the exhortations were directed (Timothy).

Just as in the day that Caesar Augustus issued a decree that "ALL the world" should be registered with the authorities of Rome, the demanded census was contained to the cities under the rule of the Roman Empire, but was not issued to ALL the cities in the world at large in a universal sense. See Luke 2:1-7

It is rare, even in our conversations, that we use the word "all" only in a universal sense. It is almost always qualified and quantified by the context of the discussion.
 
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musterion

Well-known member
Colossians 2:13.

All means all. Same word, same sense in 1 Tim 2:5-6, unless you're going to selectively say 'all trespasses' does mean 'ALL trespasses.'

The word is elsewhere translated "every," which has the same sense. Christ ransomed every man, but many choose to disbelieve and so all do not benefit from His ransoming them. Precisely there lies their condemnation.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
...and the female members practice modesty and silence submission of ecclesiastical authority (e.g. 2:9-112)

What a perversion of scripture. How in the world did you get that from Paul's teachings?
 

Sonnet

New member
Where does scripture speak of anyone believing that certain types or kinds of people might be excluded from the provision of Christ's ransom, such that Paul felt the need to clarify that it was, indeed, all types?

Paul was assuring the doubtful that, no, elderly widow types were not excluded? Carpenters - they're in.

No, Paul is affirming all without exception. Only because some have extrapolated without justification the notion of a limited atonement does such a necessity to redefine 'all' arise.
 

Sonnet

New member
This is good, and pleases God our Saviour, who wants all types of people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all types of people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

Sounds really peculiar.
Who ever thought some types were excluded?
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Colossians 2:13.
Christ ransomed every man, but many choose to disbelieve and so all do not benefit from His ransoming them.

You are claiming that unbelief overrules the will of God. You are insinuating that the price Christ paid in ransom, falls short of achieving His goal.



Precisely there lies their condemnation.

John 3:18 says unbelievng sinners who reject the gospel, were condemned already because the light has come into the world and men loved darkness rather than the light.

That describes an existing condition; not a offer of choice. Unbelievers can only not believe because of their dead condition. Which takes you to the context of the subject, which is the necessity of regeneration. vss 3-8
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
What a perversion of scripture. How in the world did you get that from Paul's teachings?

There was a typo in my scripture reference to make this point. It has been corrected to I Timothy 2:9-12. If you read the reference now, it will become clear what the epistle is all about.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Where does scripture speak of anyone believing that certain types or kinds of people might be excluded from the provision of Christ's ransom, such that Paul felt the need to clarify that it was, indeed, all types?

You do not believe there are reprobate souls, do you . . .

Paul was assuring the doubtful that, no, elderly widow types were not excluded? Carpenters - they're in.

No, Paul is affirming all without exception.

No, Paul was exhorting Timothy that he would be caring and ministering to all kinds of people.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
This is good, and pleases God our Saviour, who wants all types of people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all types of people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

Sounds really peculiar.
Who ever thought some types were excluded?

I never used the word "types" and I do not appreciate your usage of it either, for it distorts the context of Paul's epistle quite wrongly.

All "kinds" of personal circumstances are represented in any visible church, but Christ has paid the ransom for EVERY soul He has chosen to rescue from bondage to death and Satan.
 

Sonnet

New member
This is good, and pleases God our Saviour, who wants all kinds of people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all kinds of people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

Reduces Paul's bold assertion to the farcical.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
All "kinds" of people, meaning:

Gentiles as well as Jews
Rich as well as poor
Slaves as well as free
Women as well as men
Kings as well as commoners
Ignorant as well as educated
Young as well as old
etc, etc
 
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