Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[Idolater]

How can they repent of sins that they dont have charged to them ? Their sins have been purged away. God remembers them no more, He doesnt lay them to their charge. Heb 1:3

So again, does this mean therefore, that the Lord has nothing for us to do for the remainder of our lives on the Earth? What does the Lord have for us to do, in this life? If we are elect, and all your saying about us is true, what do we do now? Is your answer literally, do whatever we want? Or is it something else?

 

[beloved57]

So again, does this mean therefore, that the Lord has nothing for us to do for the remainder of our lives on the Earth? What does the Lord have for us to do, in this life? If we are elect, and all your saying about us is true, what do we do now? Is your answer literally, do whatever we want? Or is it something else?

This thread isnt about the christian life, its about How Christ Justified the ugodly by putting away their sins Heb 9:26

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Im not here talking about what men need to do, but what Christ did !

 

[Hoping]

How can they repent of sins that they dont have charged to them ? Their sins have been purged away. God remembers them no more, He doesnt lay them to their charge. Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Rom 4:
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Jer 50:20

In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

I am not familiar with your religion, so will drop out of this discussion now.

 

[beloved57]

I am not familiar with your religion, so will drop out of this discussion now.

And likewise, so be it, and take care

 

[beloved57]

Rom 5:18 shows us Justification solely by Christs death

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The one act of Christ dying on the Cross for the sins of Gods elect people, resulted in their Justification of life.

 

[beloved57]

Justification is a free gift to all whom Christ died !

Rom 5:16

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

By Christs one obedience, in contrast to the one who sinned, our natural father adam, resulting in condemnation, yet in contrast, Christs suretyship acts for those He was spiritual father and head/surety, resulted for them, Justification as a free gift. The free gift of acquittal and acceptance into the favor of God !

 

[Hoping]

Justification is a free gift to all whom Christ died !

Rom 5:16

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

By Christs one obedience, in contrast to the one who sinned, our natural father adam, resulting in condemnation, yet in contrast, Christs suretyship acts for those He was spiritual father and head/surety, resulted for them, Justification as a free gift. The free gift of acquittal and acceptance into the favor of God !

Yep...All we have to do is accept it, along with all the other gifts from God.
Like the gift of repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost, the gift of tongues, etc.

 

[beloved57]

Yep...All we have to do is accept it, along with all the other gifts from God.
Like the gift of repentance from sin, baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost, the gift of tongues, etc.

Wrong It has nothing to do with what we do. It depended on what Christ did, as it depended on what Adam did for the opposite result.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Wrong It has nothing to do with what we do.

God is the one who provides salvation.

God is not the one who accepts that salvation. That is on us.

Our accepting of the salvation God alone provides is NOT meritorious, it doesn't earn us the salvation.

God freely provides it to those who accept it, no requirement to obtain it.

 

[beloved57]

God is the one who provides salvation.

God is not the one who accepts that salvation. That is on us.

Our accepting of the salvation God alone provides is NOT meritorious, it doesn't earn us the salvation.

God freely provides it to those who accept it, no requirement to obtain it.

In Rom 5:16 the free Justification gift is solely the result of what Christ did, has nothing to do with what anybody did.

 

[JudgeRightly]

In Rom 5:16 the free Justification gift is solely the result of what Christ did, has nothing to do with what anybody did.

Yes, that's what I said.

 

[beloved57]

Yes, that's what I said.

No, its not. You made a condition to receiving the gift of righteousness:

God freely provides it to those who accept it,

Rom 5:16 doesnt say anything like that, it reads:

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

The free gift is unto justification, period ! It has nothing to do with the recipients accepting it, its not even a tangible object. Justifification is a legal matter made by a Judge, its a judicial matter, and its located at the Throne of Gods Law and Justice, for its God alone that Justifieth Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So its not about accepting it, Its Gods gracious verdict to them Christ died for !

 

[Hoping]

Wrong It has nothing to do with what we do. It depended on what Christ did, as it depended on what Adam did for the opposite result.

Without receiving, there is no giving.
"IT" has everything to do with what we do.
You can go to the store and try to give ten dollar bills to folks all day long, but if nobody accepts one, you haven't given away anything.
If we don't accept God's gifts, it profits us nothing.
And by accepting I mean turning away from sin and unto God.
Did Hitler, Mao, or Stalin accept God's gracious gifts?
NO, so will they be saved on the day of judgement?
No.

It pains me to see you relying on such a doctrine.
To me, it is like window-shopping.
We can see all the wonderful goods, but we can't take them.
I pray you will one day accept the wonderous offerings of Jesus Christ my Lord.

 

[JudgeRightly]

No, its not.

Yes, it is exactly what I said. Compare:

... the free Justification gift is solely the result of what Christ did,

the salvation God alone provides

And:

has nothing to do with what anybody did.

Our accepting of the salvation . . . is NOT meritorious, it doesn't earn us the salvation.

God freely provides it to those who accept it, no requirement to obtain it.

You made a condition to receiving the gift of righteousness:

So you believe in unconditional salvation?

Rom 5:16 doesnt say anything like that, it reads:

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

The free gift is unto justification, period!

Again, God alone provides the free gift. But He doesn't accept the free gift for us. That responsibility falls to us.

It has nothing to do with the recipients accepting it, its not even a tangible object.

So what? When a couple says "I do" at the altar, they aren't accepting a "tangible object," yet their acceptance of each other is life changing, yet they aren't doing anything other than accepting.

Justification is a legal matter made by a Judge, its a judicial matter, and its located at the Throne of Gods Law and Justice, for its God alone that Justifieth Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So its not about accepting it, Its Gods gracious verdict to them Christ died for!

You're conflating two issues here.

Again: GOD ALONE justifies.

However, we are not justified until we put our faith in Christ. No, that does not mean that the act of putting our faith in Him is what justifies us, it just means we want to be justified. God, not man, said that those who put their faith in Him will be justified, not because their faith merits or earns the justification, but because God determined that He would justify those who have faith.

 

[beloved57]

To be Justified by Faith,

Thats is when a Justified person comes into a spiritual apprehension/knowledge and enjoyment of the Justification and reconciliation which Christ has wrought for us to God, so by Faith we come to know Spiritually that God is our God, and we are in His favor . Our Faith didn't cause that, but reveals and receives that.

 

[beloved57]

We receive Justification by Faith when Gods sentence of Justification He has for us because of the blood of Christ shed for us, when that sentence terminates in our sanctified hearts and minds, which persuades us to believe in Jesus Christ. So we receive Justification by the effectual persuasion of our minds and hearts to believe in Jesus for what He has already accomplished. Read what Paul says here 1 Thess 1:5

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

The word assurance is the greek word plērophoria:

1. full assurance, most certain confidence,
   • to be persuaded, persuaded, fully convinced or assured

So to be Justified by Faith is when we have been persuaded that God Justifed us on the basis of Christs blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[beloved57]

Justification before God is before Faith/Believing because non imputation of sin is before Faith/Believing. 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Now how does this equate to Justification ? Because Non imputation of sin is equivalen to imputation of righteousness.

How so ? Paul in Rom 4:6 borrowed from David back in Ps 32 and Paul wrote

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Because David wrote Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Now here is Davids version Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Notice David says nothing about " God imputeth righteousness without works" However the Holy Spirit interpret what David means through Paul, that the non imputing of sin equates to the imputation of righteousness without works.

So God was in Christ performing the non imputation of sin for a world of people, before they believed. Hence they were Justified by Christs Righteousness before they believed.

 

[7djengo7]

In Rom 5:16 the free Justification gift is solely the result of what Christ did, has nothing to do with what anybody did.

But receiving the free gift of justification has to do with something its recpient did/does: namely, receiving it.

 

[JudgeRightly]

But receiving the free gift of justification has to do with something its recpient did/does: namely, receiving it.

This is EXACTLY what Calvinists such as @beloved57 are guilty of conflating with what God has done to save men, and why he has no answer to my post #794.

Yes, God is solely responsible for providing justification.

But God is NOT responsible for us accepting or rejecting that justification. That's our response-ability! We RESPOND to His offer (made to EVERYONE, not just some predetermined select-few) of salvation, and we are only able to do so BECAUSE He made the offer.

If He had never made the offer, then NO ONE would ever be able to get saved, because He is the sole means by which we can be saved.

 

[beloved57]

Justified by Grace then made Heirs experientially !

Titus 3:7

7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

What Paul is saying, is that by Christ death, which was by the Grace of God Heb 2:9, those Christ died for were made Righteous or Justified Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience [Death Heb 2:9] of one shall many be made righteous.

Now as a result of this, those ones He tasted death for shall be made experientially Heirs according to the Hope of Eternal life, which was promised them Titus 1:2

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Notice how Paul used the phrase Twice in this epistle " Hope of Eternal life" !

But because we are freely by the Grace of God Justified, made Righteous Legally, God must now through the application work of the Holy Spirit make us Heirs experientially.

Notice Paul says right after stating that we are Justified by His Grace " we should be made"according to the hope of Eternal life.

The word made is the greek word ginomai and means:


to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen

What this means, is that we should now receive New Life, to become a New Creation, a New Man as in Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

This New Man is created ktizō:


to create

a) of God creating the worlds

b) to form, shape, i.e. to completely change or transform

And so thats what God does for all who are Legally Justified by the Grace of God, He makes them Heirs experimentally by giving them New Being, New Existence, a Existence that prepares them for Eternal Life in Glory..

We are made meet Col 1:12

12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Eternal Life is an Inheritance, and its bequeathed upon all the Heirs of Promise, the Children of Promise.

So those freely Justified by Grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus Rom 3:24 which is to say His Blood Eph 1:7, they will be given a New Life corresponding to what they are, Heirs of the Kingdom , which is Eternal life.