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Get on your mark, get set, . . . Go!!
ECT Who is the man-child of Rev.12?
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Christ Jesus
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Can I trust you to read the account and then speak of you think it is?
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How so when Jesus was not so caught up in such a fashion? <that is just for starters>
revpete
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I have read the account as you have. I favour Jesus but the nation of Israel is an interpretation I've heard many times. What's your take on this CR?
Pete
(Acts 13:33) God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Rev 12:5 doesn't refer to Jesus being born on earth, it refers to Jesus being "born" when God the Father raised Him from the dead.
SaulToPaul 2
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Rev 2
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 12
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 12
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Cross Reference
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I have read the account as you have. I favour Jesus but the nation of Israel is an interpretation I've heard many times. What's your take on this CR?
Pete
For starters: Why would you favor Jesus after reading the timeline in the account between vs 4 and vs 6? What does the 3 1/2 yrs represent?
"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up [immediately vs 4] unto God, and to his throne." Revelation 12:5 (KJV)
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Please, spare me your religious point of view. I am not interested in debating using less than facts presented from relevant scripture. Thank you.
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And who might we call such overcomers?
revpete
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Well, the prophets, in this case John, sometimes saw events as one that were separated by many years. I suppose that Isaiah would be the classic example:
Isaiah: 61. 1. The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2. To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn.
In these verses the prophet sees the first and second advent as one. That's why our Lord stops in the middle of the verse when He quotes Isaiah in the synagogue:
Luke: 4. 16. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
The principle is the here. What do you think?
In the Rev passage the language is symbolic and the child being caught up is symbolic of God's Sovereign protection over Him when Joseph was warned in a dream to flee into Egypt. The dragon of course symbolises satan who motivated and moved Herod.
The verses also speak of when Lucifer rebelled and was cast out of Heaven with a third of the angels that followed him. All these events seen as one by the prophet.
As I said, what's your take on it?
Pete
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I am not interested about what the prophets saw. This is all after their time. John was not a prophet in this. I am interested in your understanding based upon what you read.
The woman; the man-child; the timeline, and anything else relevant, et al . . . which is plenty written here that can easily be understood unless you want to again let your religion get the way. . . .in which I'm done replying to you.
SaulToPaul 2
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Rev 2
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 12
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
revpete
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I'm trying to get over to you a principle of interpretation to apply to the verses you quote. Why is it that anything you can't understand or disagree with you dismiss as "religion"?
If you don't want to reply, don't.
Rev 2:26-27 is not speaking of the man child (Christ Jesus)
The woman is both the mother of Jesus and the mother of those in Christ Jesus.
(Rev 12:17) Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
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SaulToPaul 2
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Obviously not Jesus Christ, but the "he" in the verses is the one who rules with a rod of iron.