ECT Who is speaking in Isaiah 44:24

SimpleMan77

New member
Trinitarians, who is speaking in Isaiah 44:24 (God said "I made the earth by myself")? Father, Son, Holy Ghost, or is a triune God speaking as a composite?

Isaiah 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer,
and he that formed thee from the womb,
I am the LORD that maketh all things;
that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
Last edited:

Tattooed Theist

New member
Trinitarians, who is speaking in Isaiah 44:24? Father, Son, Holy Ghost, or is a triune God speaking as a composite?

Isaiah 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer,
and he that formed thee from the womb,
I am the LORD that maketh all things;
that stretcheth forth the heavens alone;
that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Composite, those who follow a triune approach to God cannot merely pick and choose. We, or i'll say most, would argue that they have been one composite from the beginning. That if the Father has always been, then so has the Son and the spirit as well. Eternal is eternal is eternal.

The entirety makes one think, the Father. The use of the word "redeemer," makes me think of the Son. The spirit resides as one with both and both with it.

Just my two cents.
 

SimpleMan77

New member
Composite, those who follow a triune approach to God cannot merely pick and choose. We, or i'll say most, would argue that they have been one composite from the beginning. That if the Father has always been, then so has the Son and the spirit as well. Eternal is eternal is eternal.

The entirety makes one think, the Father. The use of the word "redeemer," makes me think of the Son. The spirit resides as one with both and both with it.

Just my two cents.

Hebrews 1:1,2 says that "God, who spake unto our fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His son". Doesn't this identify the Father as the one speaking through the prophets as the Father?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

SimpleMan77

New member
Who is speaking in Isaiah 44:24

Hebrews 1:1,2 says that "God, who spake unto our fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His son". Doesn't this identify the Father as the one speaking through the prophets as the Father?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

And how can the Father say "I created heaven and earth alone and by myself"? If God is triune, The Father is taking full credit for something He didn't do by Himself.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

Tattooed Theist

New member
Hebrews 1:1,2 says that "God, who spake unto our fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His son". Doesn't this identify the Father as the one speaking through the prophets as the Father?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

I'd assert more that this speaks of specificity. If Jesus is God, He exists eternally with the Father, going back before time. Just because He isn't specifically addressed does not particularly remove Him from the doings of the father in pre New Testament scripture.

Due to Jesus not being on "the scene," yet, the prophets only had the Father speaking directly to them (or indirectly) but Jesus must have been present within the Father the entire time.
 

Danoh

New member
I'd assert more that this speaks of specificity. If Jesus is God, He exists eternally with the Father, going back before time. Just because He isn't specifically addressed does not particularly remove Him from the doings of the father in pre New Testament scripture.

Due to Jesus not being on "the scene," yet, the prophets only had the Father speaking directly to them (or indirectly) but Jesus must have been present within the Father the entire time.

Yep :thumb:

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
 

Tattooed Theist

New member
Yep :thumb:

1 Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Interesting pull from Paul, very good example of the 'bridging of the gap' for the believers being addressed.
 

SimpleMan77

New member
I'd assert more that this speaks of specificity. If Jesus is God, He exists eternally with the Father, going back before time. Just because He isn't specifically addressed does not particularly remove Him from the doings of the father in pre New Testament scripture.

Due to Jesus not being on "the scene," yet, the prophets only had the Father speaking directly to them (or indirectly) but Jesus must have been present within the Father the entire time.

The book was written to the Jews, and starts with the word "God" (Greek theos). To the Jew this had a very specific meaning, referencing the One God of Israel.

The New Testament always viewed the Father as the one God of the OT.

So in Isaiah The Father takes full credit for creation, stating that he did it alone. In other verses, the Father (according to the writer of Hebrews) says there is no one with him, like him, beside him, etc.

Because Jesus had all the attributes of God, was credited with creation, etc, Jesus had to be the Father in human form and identity.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

SimpleMan77

New member
Composite, those who follow a triune approach to God cannot merely pick and choose. We, or i'll say most, would argue that they have been one composite from the beginning. That if the Father has always been, then so has the Son and the spirit as well. Eternal is eternal is eternal.

The entirety makes one think, the Father. The use of the word "redeemer," makes me think of the Son. The spirit resides as one with both and both with it.

Just my two cents.

The one who spoke "to the fathers by the prophets" couldn't have spoken as a composite. If so, Hebrews 1:1,2 would be saying "the triune God, who spoke as a composite to our fathers, had a son".

That would make Jesus the son of the trinity, making him 1/3 his own daddy.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

Tattooed Theist

New member
The book was written to the Jews, and starts with the word "God" (Greek theos). To the Jew this had a very specific meaning, referencing the One God of Israel.

The New Testament always viewed the Father as the one God of the OT.

So in Isaiah The Father takes full credit for creation, stating that he did it alone. In other verses, the Father (according to the writer of Hebrews) says there is no one with him, like him, beside him, etc.

Because Jesus had all the attributes of God, was credited with creation, etc, Jesus had to be the Father in human form and identity.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

I would argue that Jesus did not merely have "all the attributes of God," Jesus WAS God.
God sent a flesh and blood representation, a direct incarnation of Himself.

The book of Hebrews was written to the Jews, yes, which would make perfect sense in that the author used verbiage and was extremely intentional about how he spoke to them.

We don't convey the Gospel the same to everyone, during that time especially the author is dealing with immature new believers that were Jews. He was speaking to a culture that wanted to revert back to judaism because of fear of persecution going on in the church. Must of Hebrews is him (author) pleading with the Jewish people trying to convey the gravity of their weak understanding of just WHO Jesus was.

The father can take full credit for creation, there is no theological issue with that. Just because something isn't said doesn't mean it isn't so. His use of words does not discount that the Son and the Spirit were also present.
 
Top