Cross Reference
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Any takers?
ECT Who is responsible for "dying to self"?
- Thread starter Cross Reference
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You, for one.
nikolai_42
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It may be a bit of a tortured analogy, but...
Once "dead", that which was "responsible" for dying is dead and can no longer take responsibility. That dead self is now something that can be moved around - literally used by God - to do His will. That's why "God is my co-pilot" is a really awful statement. It's more like He's supposed to be in the driver's seat and you are a corpse stuffed in the trunk of the car being driven around.
But again...this is emphasis to make a point. Not a precise statement.
EDIT : And note that this doesn't make one an automaton because you yourself aren't dead. That which needs to die is simply the same "thing" that wants to take the responsibility for dying. It can't. Not if one takes up one's cross...and one does not put one's self on the cross.
Once "dead", that which was "responsible" for dying is dead and can no longer take responsibility. That dead self is now something that can be moved around - literally used by God - to do His will. That's why "God is my co-pilot" is a really awful statement. It's more like He's supposed to be in the driver's seat and you are a corpse stuffed in the trunk of the car being driven around.
But again...this is emphasis to make a point. Not a precise statement.
EDIT : And note that this doesn't make one an automaton because you yourself aren't dead. That which needs to die is simply the same "thing" that wants to take the responsibility for dying. It can't. Not if one takes up one's cross...and one does not put one's self on the cross.
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Cross Reference
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Then, after salvation, what is overcoming in this life supposed to all about?
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Perseverance...but I'm not sure exactly what you mean by asking what overcoming is "all about".
What Scripture verse speaks of overcoming and who is it speaking to?
Cross Reference
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Rev 2 and 3 should satisfy the sincere.
So, I'm assuming you're too lazy to post the Scripture verses to back your premise?
Cross Reference
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For you, yes. You own a Bible. Read it.
Frankly, your posts hold no significance to me. No offense to you personally, I just don't happen to like you.
Cross Reference
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Well, now you know why I can't be bothered.
Cross Reference
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The problem with the fact we must do it, Brad, lies with impossibility of it all. To take that approach compels us to run to the books stores for the "Christian self improvement" courses written by good authors which most have no pentecostal experience in the Lord. Dying to self can only be accomplished by seeking to Know God per John 17:3 KJV.. To move in that direction will cover all the bases that when the occasion arises that we recognize self is in the way of our success we will automatically "Submit yourselves therefore to God. *Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded." James 4:7-8 (KJV) Notice, it doesn't say resist the devil first and then seek God. James 4:ff is a good read on this subject.
* Resist also the law of our flesh that seeks to keep us bound to vain and futile thinking by the attractiveness of worldly desires..
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Revelation 3:12 KJV - Revelation 3:21 KJV -
Revelation 12:11 KJV -
Revelation 12:11 KJV -
Revelation 2:11 KJV -
Cross Reference
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Since motivation is the key to what overcoming is all about, why should we begin with "self" as the hindering issue?
Because "self" and "selfishness" is the core problem with mankind. Self keeps us from God. Overcome "self"
Cross Reference
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But Self can't overcome, SELF. We are a 'house' divided against its "Self" when we try. We can do nothing without abiding in Christ to accomplish this except by loving Him with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. In this way, Self will be dispelled as it must when we truly fall in love.
WonderfulLordJesus
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It is good to see somebody answer truthfully, and as scripture supports. You see a lot of Christians anymore who have signed up for what seems to be coming from televangelists they mention, which I know little about (don't watch them), but the hyper-grace message we're lost sinners, that we don't need to repent, can't repent, and what happens at salvation is the Holy Spirit comes and takes over our lives, Christ living through us. They speak of sin as if it just doesn't exist anymore, all is forgiven, we're, of ourselves, just depraved, can't do anything good, at all, of ourselves: anything good we do is Christ doing it in us. This is so not Biblical!
Cover to cover, the Bible is the Lord commanding man to make the right choices, to repent, seek righteousness, even after saved to be engaged in eschewing the flesh as a life's walk in the Spirit, Romans 8:13, not to grieve the Spirit, Ephesians 4:30, etc. Scripture is filled with admonitions walk on the straight and narrow, calls to righteous obedience, some New Testament examples: Ephesians 5:8, Romans 6:16, John 14:15, John 14:21, Luke 6:46, Matthew 7:21, James 1:22, 2 Corinthians 2:9, Galatians 5:13-14, 2 John 1:6.
To say we don't have heavy responsibility to resist our carnal selves and seek the things of God makes the entirety of scripture senseless, makes commandments of any kind senseless, since, by any other view, we can't really act on anything. I'm plain sick of people who make these claims the gospel is to accept Christ and enjoy the ride, as God lives through us, who, by putting the responsibility on God for all things, don't own their own responsibility to walk in the light of Christ, Matthew 16:24. It also makes Hebrews 12 a rather ridiculous chapter, that God disciplines sons, if there's no issue of behavioral modification we must be party to, when not walking in the light of Christ. It makes the concept of a sin unto death ridiculous, if we aren't responsible for choices, 1 John 5:16-17.
I also like how you mention the Holy Spirit helping, help a good word for what the Holy Spirit does, in the NKJV the Holy Spirit called the Helper, such as in John 14-16, which means to assist, nowhere in scripture the Holy Spirit makes zombies or is a puppeteer. You'd think people would just know, by common sense, we all retain our wills to make choices, have this ability, Christian or not. Isn't it actually rather stupid for a person to think they don't have free will, when we make choices, make decisions, every day, decisions which can be for good, or ill, and make decisions we are responsible for, our entire lives? I don't know what's wrong with some people, that they hold to weird doctrines they should be able to add two and two, see they're wrong, look in the mirror and see they're wrong.
Such ideas not only can lead to a person having much trouble by not taking sin seriously and dealing with sin, Galatians 6:7 and Hebrews 12, but can delude a person into easy believism and the damnation of one who never has acknowledge their responsibility for sin and repentance, Proverbs 14:12, Luke 18:13-14, Luke 13:3.