Who is a charismatic?

[2003cobra]

True.



Paul wasn't healed of his thorn in order to (apparently) keep him humble and teach him the sufficiency of grace. And he left Tromphimus sick at Miletus because the gifts were being withdrawn as Israel continued in unbelief. When the pronouncement of the closed door finally was given to the Jews in Acts 28, the sign gifts were all withdrawn.

We agree, all but the last sentence.

 

[musterion]

We agree, all but the last sentence.

Then your position contradicts the Bible. It says tongues were a sign (arguably a sign of impending judgment, per the O.T.) for unbelieving Jews.

 

[2003cobra]

Cobra,

Catholics who speak in "tongues."

Are they saved?

Fortunately for me and everyone else, I don’t make that call. I don’t presume to sit in the judgment seat of Jesus Christ.

I do have several Roman Catholic friends whom I consider brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[2003cobra]

Then your position contradicts the Bible.

You will need to unpack that a little.

Do quote the passage to which you refer.

It says tongues were a sign (arguably a sign of impending judgment, per the O.T.) for unbelieving Jews.

Does it say that they were only a sign for unbelieving Jews, and no other reason?

Are there still unbelieving Jews?

Are there no other reasons for tongues and interpretation mentioned in scripture?

 

[musterion]

Fortunately for me and everyone else, I don’t make that call. I don’t presume to sit in the judgment seat of Jesus Christ.

I didn't ask you to. I simply asked if they are saved, according to the gospel preached by the Catholic church.

I do have several Roman Catholic friends whom I consider brothers and sisters in Christ.

Based on the gospel they believe?

Do you believe the same gospel as they do?

 

[musterion]

You will need to unpack that a little.

I already did but...

1 Cor 1:22; 14:22; 14:21

Do quote the passage to which you refer.

1 Cor 1:22; 14:22; 14:21

Does it say that they were only a sign for unbelieving Jews, and no other reason?

1 Cor 1:22; 14:22; 14:21

Are there still unbelieving Jews?

Of course there are, but there's no longer any distinction between them and Gentiles.

 

[2003cobra]

Not true, but it's not our fault none of the stories that are provided end up not panning out as true. We're supposed to test all things.

We will have to disagree on the willingness of people to accept proof.

I find that frequently in religious discussions that people will deny facts that don’t fit their presuppositions.

The apostle Paul says that tongues were a sign for unbelieving Jews. That was the purpose of tongues but that purpose cannot be used today since there is no longer any distinction between Jew and Gentile. So the gift hasn't existed for 2,000 years.

He said more than that. Do quote the passages on which you are relying for this view.

That is no proof.

By their fruits, you will know them.

So I think a person’s life and testimony is relevant.

 

[Lon]

It sounds like you agree that simply believing that God still does miracles does not make a person a charismatic.

Correct. You keep missing it. The 'charismatic' gift is that 'George raised Harry from the dead.' :nono:

No Benny Hinn 'gift of healing.' The Apostles had the gift. God still heals today. George does not.

Clarified?

 

[2003cobra]

I already did but...

1 Cor 1:22; 14:22; 14:21



1 Cor 1:22; 14:22; 14:21



1 Cor 1:22; 14:22; 14:21



Of course there are, but there's no longer any distinction between them and Gentiles.

So, no, the scriptures do not say that a tongues are only a sign for unbelieving Jews — negating your point.

And there are still unbelieving Jews, negating your point.

1 Cor 12 say the gifts are given for the common good:
To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the discernment of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are activated by one and the same Spirit, who allots to each one individually just as the Spirit chooses.


Then Paul goes on to describe the church as a body and those with different gifts as members, or parts, of the body. A person with one gift is not to disrespect one with other gifts.

 

[2003cobra]

Correct. You keep missing it. The 'charismatic' gift is that 'George raised Harry from the dead.' :nono:

No Benny Hinn 'gift of healing.' The Apostles had the gift. God still heals today. George does not.

Clarified?

I hear and understand your position, such as it is.

 

[john w]

Chicks think I'm quite charismatic.

 

[musterion]

I hear and understand your position, such as it is.

Played dumb, ignored Scripture, avoided a simple question, now passive-aggressively rude to Lon, who just tried to help. You're ignored.

 

[2003cobra]

Played dumb, ignored Scripture, avoided a simple question, now passive-aggressively rude to Lon, who just tried to help. You're ignored.

If you think asking for opinions is playing dumb, then I am guilty.

I did not ignore scripture. I noted that the claim that tongues and interpretation are only as a sign to unbelieving Jews is false. Paul said they were gifts of the Holy Spirit given for the common good.

Whether Lon was trying to help or not is debatable. As you don’t know the background of the questions and comments, your assessment is based on incomplete data.

I suspect you are ignoring me because I pointed out that the scriptures do not support your claims. If you choose to avert your eyes, that is your choice. But it may not be the best choice.

So, thank you for the comments you did make. May God bless you. And may God put in your path some righteous people with the charismatic gifts so you can see that things may not be as you have decided.