dodge
New member
Have you ever read Isiah 53 or Psalms 22 ? It is there in the OT you are sadly in denial because of the MAD errors.
ECT Who actually revealed the "mystery" of the Gospel of grace ? Was Paul the first ?
- Thread starter dodge
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Have you ever read Isiah 53 or Psalms 22 ? It is there in the OT you are sadly in denial because of the MAD errors.
dodge
New member
:chuckle:
Hi and if you continue to use Eph 3:5 , you are using Pauline truth !!
Where did Jesus OR the 12 apostles preach the gospel of the Revelation of the MYSTERY ??
And , STP , I know it is REDUNTANI , but he is a GRASSHOPPER !!
dan p
That is THIS Kingdom...
Isaiah 2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Isaiah 1:1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.
dodge
New member
Nice try but Isaiah 53 and Psalms 22 is about Jesus read it again.
Isaiah 53King James Version (KJV)
53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
dodge
New member
Psalms 22
22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19 But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
23 Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.
One more time-you've been shown this, by myself/others:
The Ephesians passage you cite, referencing "apostles and the prophets," is not referencing the prophets and the 12 apostles, OT through "pre-Paul"-your "argument." It is referencing the apostles and prophets, "Paul, and going forward.=not "the twelve apostles of the Lamb" referenced in Revelation 21:14 KJV, for eg.
Of course, since the details of the book, a book of details, are not important to you, you missed it, and miss most of the book. My evidence? Your "posts."
Note, the chronological order, "pre Paul"=OT up until Paul:
Luke 11:49 KJV Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
2 Peter 3:2 KJV
That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
Prophets first, then the 12 apostles.
Vs.
From Paul, on...
1 Corinthians 12:28 KJV
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Chronological order-book of details....
"first apostles"
"secondarily prophets"
Memorize it. Details. Survey Acts...Paul, first, apostle...Barnabus, an apostle.....then prophets....
Confirmed-order-apostles, then prophets:
Ephesians 2:20 KJV
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Ephesians 3:5 KJV
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
dodge
New member
I am not the one removing Jesus and His teachings to follow Paul and ignore Jesus. No ridicule intended. Truth is the goal and sadly those in MAD follow a false gospel.
You are the one, on record, who satanically asserts saint Judas, as you assert that he was an evangelist, preaching the good news of 1 Cor.15:1-4 KJV. You lied. The LORD God in his book never taught you that. The devil, the father of lies, taught you that.
1 Peter 1:9 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.
Hi Dodge... 2P2P is correct. There are two gospel dispensations and it must be divided thus. The DBR and its full impact weren't understood until Paul. We even see this as Paul and Peter are in dispute in the book of Galatians. All scripture is good for doctrine, but if it is incorrectly divided... it yields bad things. If we take writings to the diaspora as personal guidance in literal application to ourselves... we would be led astray.
Note that Peter even affirms that though the prophets spoke of such things... they themselves didn't understand them. The full reveal wasn't until Saul was struck blind and heard the very voice of Jesus Christ as Moses heard that very same voice at Sanai.
There is deep value to dispensational understanding.
Note that the Holy Spirit sent from heaven in 1st Peter is a dispensational reference to Pentecost, which first impacted the Kingdom of Israel.
Paul is the second portion of this "mystery". There are indeed two dispensations of the gospel that bind to God's promises to "national/biological" Israel.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Besides...he doesn't listen.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Neither of those was hidden in the OT.
And ribbing is not ridicule - get your facts straight on the difference between the two :chuckle:
Does Andy ridicule Barney, or does he rib him?
Consider that you have just proven what you often prove - that you do read into a thing, and then run with it.
Not that I do not, here and there myself.
Get out of your club already, bro - not many high-fives over here, but Christ is more than sufficient
Nope, what you do is not ribbing. It's jabbing with a sharp elbow delivered with poorly concealed scorn.
dodge
New member
If one accepts the Lord Jesus and accepts His sacrifice as payment for their sin how would any understanding of dispoensational understanding help ?
Hello E.E.
I don't see nor read scripture as a series of fractured events but as a continuous flow all throughout the scripture.
From Genesis 3 where the first mention of Satan having his head crushed and Jesus having His heel bruised. Then the OT prophets prophesied of Jesus.
I see in many of Jesus' teachings the gospel of GRACE being proclaimed. Yes, I understand that God with held the meaning until HE was ready to reveal it through ALL the Apostles after the Jews were set aside.
I don't believe the Apostle Paul was the only Apostle to preach and teach the Gospel of grace as that contradicts scripture which says all the apostles received the message from the Holy Spirit.
Eph 3:5
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Before Paul was ever saved over 8000 folks were saved so how exactly were they saved if, while Paul was killing and having Christians jailed ,the Gospel of GRACE had no been preached ?
dodge
New member
I do listen to and trust scripture but that does not mean when folks get of the narrow path and teach contrary to scripture that I will agree with them.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Brief explanation:
Mystery of Christ: That Christ died for the sins of those in the promises
Mystery of the Gospel: That Christ died for all, even those outside the promises
Mystery of Christ: That Christ died for the sins of those in the promises
Mystery of the Gospel: That Christ died for all, even those outside the promises
glorydaz
Well-known member
Well, you might listen, but you don't really pay attention.
You push it quickly aside (without CONSIDERATION) and start talking again.
Grace in this age of grace is the Prime understanding through Jesus. The dispensation is a secondary understanding that is required to go past John 3:16 and divide the expanse correctly.
Was righteous Abel saved by grace in accordance with John 3:16?