brinny
New member
Thank you for the clarification, although anyone who risks everything and loses limbs, etc. in doing so and/or their life, is deserving of at least respect and acknowledgement.
Thank you kindly.
Which is the hero? War Vet or Boob Job?
- Thread starter Nazaroo
- Start date
Thank you for the clarification, although anyone who risks everything and loses limbs, etc. in doing so and/or their life, is deserving of at least respect and acknowledgement.
Thank you kindly.
Respect, sure. Acknowledgment, sure. I just don't consider being hurt while on the job to be particularly heroic in and of itself. Frankly, neither do a lot of vets I know. My brother, for one, hates this "hero" talk (my uncle, retired SEAL, is no fan either). He went over there, did his job, and came home. For him--and a lot of his comrades--that's really all there is to it.
brinny
New member
They are all heroes to me. I've seen too many vets, homeless, in wheelchairs, sleeping on the street, given poor and downright neglectful and dismissive "health" care. And yes, most don't even recognize themselves as a hero.
They ALL are from my perspective, and if they forget that they are heroes, i will remind them. As far as i'm concerned, your brother and your uncle are deserving of my respect, even if they are oblivious to how much of a hero each is.
I will never take for granted what these gallant men and women sacrifice so selflessly.
They are ALL heroes as far as i'm concerned.
Thank you kindly
We agree to disagree.:cheers:
:thumb:
brinny
New member
Perhaps we disagree, but i hold your brother and uncle in high esteem for what they've done.
Thank you kindly.
The greatest part of being a hero is ... they don't even realize they are. For them, it's instinct.
brinny
New member
I agree.
TracerBullet
New member
With celebrities, all news keeps them in the spotlight.
Heroism comes in a lot of forms, and it's not like we're going to run out of ability to recognize them all. What you really mean to say is, "I don't like/understand/sympathize with trans issues, so to hell will Caitlyn Jenner." And fine, you don't have to find her heroic. There are plenty of people who disagree with you, and you're just going to have to deal with them saying so.
No, I am definitely verbal enough to state that IF it were the case. As you stated, you are free to define heroism however you like.
However, should Caityln/Bruce ever rescue someone from a burning building, I will be the first to offer up a Brownie Button.
That was directed at Naz, mostly, especially his description of Jenner's heroism. Describing her struggle as a "boob job" is as big a muddling of her situation as it would be to describe a veteran's experience as a paid vacation in an exotic foreign locale. Both completely miss the point.
That's fair. I think it's a fairly silly thing to squabble over generally. I think it's pretty clear that some people find her very public transition heroic because it gives them a kind of cover that they really need.
If becoming a member of the military was such a heroic endeavor, then how many of the current GOP presidential hopefuls served in the military?
George W Bush was the member of a "champagne" unit of the National Guard - along with the son of a Texas Senator, the son of a former Texas governor and 7 members of the Dallas Cowboys. It was common knowledge that members of the Reserve would never see active service and those with influence used it to avoid sending their sons to Vietnam.
Dick Cheney who also served as a Secretary of Defense received 5 deferments and never served in the military.
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Honestly, it's hard for me to *personally* understand how someone could wish to be or identify with the other gender. However, I have no desire to see Caityln/Bruce ridiculed or harassed, and wish the family the best.
I can understand that. I can generally related to gay and lesbian people because, while I may not experience same-sex attraction, I certainly experience having a sexual orientation, so it isn't hard to imagine having a different sexual orientation. But on the other hand, I'm not really aware of having a gender identity, so I don't naturally understand how someone's gender identity could contradict their physical form. I have to rely on other people to understand that to any degree.
Nazaroo
New member
Since some here feel that "boob job boy" is a courageous hero,
perhaps they'll also agree with the new leader of Roman Catholics in England,
who says that pedophile-priests are also "courageous" heroes.
Can things get any worse?
perhaps they'll also agree with the new leader of Roman Catholics in England,
who says that pedophile-priests are also "courageous" heroes.
Clergy who admit child abuse are 'courageous', says Catholic archbishop image: http://edge.liveleak.com/80281E/u/u/thumbs/2009/May/20/f2ce97898b71_thumb_1.jpg 
Click to view image: 'f2ce97898b71-popeprat.jpg' * Riazat Butt * guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 20 May 2009 19.45 BST The new leader of Catholics in England and Wales has provoked outrage after describing members of the clergy who admitted abusing children in their care as courageous for facing up to their past. The comments by the Most Rev Vincent Nichols follow the release of a report that revealed Catholic priests and nuns terrorised thousands of boys and girls in the Irish Republic, while government inspectors failed to stop the continuing beatings, rapes and humiliation. In an interview broadcast to be broadcast tonight on ITV's News at Ten, Nichols said: "It's very distressing and very disturbing and my heart goes out today first of all to those people who will find that their stories are now told in public. "Secondly, I think of those in religious orders and some of the clergy in Dublin who have to face these facts from their past, which instinctively and quite naturally they'd rather not look at. "That takes courage, and also we shouldn't forget that this account today will also overshadow all of the good that they also did." Nichols, who will today be installed as the archbishop of Westminster, replacing Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'Connor, was responding to the 2,600-page report from Ireland's commission to inquire into child abuse. Child protection groups were quick to condemn Nichols, who has been widely praised in the past for his communication skills and ease with the media. Michele Elliot, chief executive of the charity Kidscape, said that while she was glad Nichols acknowledged the scandal of paedophilia in the priesthood, she was unhappy that he had tempered the apology. "It is ludicrous. It should be a straightforward mea culpa. It is a moral stance and he should say that it is all about the children and the rest of them be damned. There are no excuses for religious orders. "If I were a victim of child abuse I would feel that his real concern is for priests and nuns." Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=576_1242853738#o1AUpjTwzgZgu1oy.99 |
Can things get any worse?
TracerBullet
New member
Nazaroo
New member
My response to 'Joey Vicente':
We're living in a polluted environment where the uber-rich falsify and
manipulate every story in the media, for the purpose of social engineering;
and more specifically, to dumb us down and prevent us from organizing
intelligent opposition to their misguided society terraforming.
My definition of 'hero' is not irrelevant, but it is being eroded and erased,
by a cowardly cabal of hidden unelected rich bankster families, as part of
a program to discourage heroism or indeed commitment to any cause
not sponsored or profitable to market manipulators.
If someone who carries out a mundane, essentially risk-free task like
writing a letter is a hero, then everyone is a 'hero' and the word 'hero'
is lexically empty.
But in the real world of ideas, 'hero', however controversial,
is not lexically empty at all, but a lively and powerful concept that inspires
people to change the world and make it a better place.
Hailing manufactured media celebrities as "heroes" results in trivializing
the word 'hero', and cheats real heroes of the honour and respect they deserve.
Originally a knighthood was awarded for bravery in battle,
but now it is simply bought by wealthy fruitcakes like Elton John and Mick Jagger.
Originally 'rape' meant forced sexual intercourse, but now it can mean
anything from sleeping with a drunken slut to brushing against someone
in a crowded subway.
Originally the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to people for acts of
outstanding peacemaking or humanitary advancement in many fields;
now it is openly handed to warmongers and shallow politicians,
who routinely assign thousands of people to poverty,
torture and death as collateral damage.
My political position can't be compared to 'bigots of the civil rights era',
because I am well educated and fully informed of modern political ideology,
and also aware of a vast storehouse of history and its political and
ethical analysis.
My beliefs about 'heroism' and sexual behaviour are not formed from
ignorance, or youthful inexperience, or a narrow, inherited cultural set
of unexamined customs. Over 40 years of open-minded and careful
weighing of data, opinion, and the consideration of the findings of
other investigators have brought me to hold many key values as
near-universal or at least near-essential for a viable, sustainable
long-term community that maximizes peace and opportunity for all.
Standing up for human values and ethical principles that are not only fair,
but designed to produce transparency and cooperative self-government,
is not an exercise in bigotry. Rather the opposite would be an exercise
in resignation, skepticism, and hopelessness. The world needs work,
but the world is worth maintaining and repairing, and we can always
do better and improve our collective lot.
I don't doubt that "Caitlyn" Jenner is 'finding her comfort zone',
and getting very rich doing it, but she's no "hero" in any sane and
sensible definition of that word.
Would you say that a lab technician who runs the 119,292nd iteration
of the blood test that leads to a cancer cure is a hero? Even if he's a
wife-beater who stumbled to work drunk and actually turned on the
equipment accidentally?
How about a pedophile who pulls a child out of a fire he himself started,
only to sodomize the child in the woods?
Maybe you think that a victim of mild bullying in a hockey game is a hero,
when they report it to the coach. Perhaps they are, in some very limited
sense we use for children.
Are all whistle-blowers heroes?, even if they endanger the lives of
spy operatives, or do it for revenge over a personal petty grievance?
Perhaps you think so, but if you do I'd say your own misuse of language
has impoverished not only your ability to communicate, but your ability to think.
You capitalize on the 'hero' concept when you pose as a
'war veteran/soldier'. Maybe you are, or maybe you're just an internet warrior,
or maybe you're just a PR firm hired to spin the Jenner story.
Thats not my concern, except to point out the possibility.
The point is, you're playing the 'veteran card' even while
destroying the meaning of 'hero'. Don't you find that ironic?
Yes I am free to voice my opinion, and in my view its an obligation
in a democracy where informed fact and opinion can affect the quality
of our lives.
There's a big difference between unfortunate medical conditions,
and 'right' to behave stupidly. And those calls are best handled
by experts like doctors in a private setting in most cases.