ECT Which Gospel?

[Shasta]

So you believe.

And Church History, give me a break.

Romans 11:25-29 was being ignored by the Church even before it was written [the reason for its writing to begin with].

The only thing I am invested in is objectivity. Read my post on the "Rightly Dividing" thread linked below. Then call me invested in this subjectivity you are talking about even as you fail to see you are the one bogged down in thinking you are being objective.

Post # 172

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4405225#post4405225

You are misrepresenting what I have said. I am not saying the Church has had correct doctrine or that it has not misrepresented a lot of facts. My focus was on the Early Apostolic Church fathers and Apologists, the three succeeding generations that followed the Apostles. There was no Catholic Church as such so there was no strong central force that had governmental power. Heretics wrote freely in those days.

If you are saying I have misrepresented something in History then say what it was and back your claims up with something more than wishful thinking. You say two gospels existed. I have yet to read even any discussion about the possibility. To a man the Church Fathers believed in the inspiration and authority of all the NT as demonstrated by how the quoted them.

The deficit in your hermeneutical method is that once you assumed the paradigm of MAD was true you began to use eisegesis to prove it. What you do not realize is the Gospel was not delivered all in an instant. The revelation took place over time. The Resurrection and all Jesus accomplished on the cross would have had no context unless Jesus had been uniquely the Son, uniquely God, perfect humanity, the Image of the Father. If He had only been human the cross could not have affected redemption. You might think it was Paul who taught righteousness and salvation came from putting our faith in Jesus but the first one who taught this was Jesus Himself. He taught men that they must believe in Him if they wanted to receive eternal life. John 3:16 has brought more people to God than perhaps any other single verse but it was spoken before the work of the cross was accomplished.

Nevertheless it was incorporated in this body of truth we call the Gospel. Yet MAD has downgraded the very words of the Savior to the status of reading that while edifying is not mandatory or applicable anymore to modern believers. Jesus' said "heaven and earth will pass away but My words will never pass away." I think He meant more than that they are historically preserved in a book we carry.

 

[Danoh]

Jesus ministered for 3 years.

Then in the middle of the next year He was cut off.

That lines up perfectly with the Luke 13 parable.

Should we just take your word?

You accuse people of blindly following Darby.

Should we blindly follow you, instead?

I study things out according to recurrent patterns, for what principles they point back to; as any science does - as in crime detection, or in the study of disease, of DNA analysis, and so on.

Do as much - lay your above assertion out - passages of Scripture that show His three years, His half year, its supposed other half, and so on.

Can you do that, or will you hide behind your recurrent a pattern - "I, um, laid all that out way back when..."

 

[Shasta]

You are assuming you understood what we mean, and then successfully proving that assumption false. But said assumption is not what we are talking about.

Why have you done that? Because you are not being objective - objectivity would check its conclusions about another's assertions with them first.

Rom. 11:25-29 relates that Rom. 15:8-12, which was prophesied [Israel's rise first], Isaiah 60:2-3, was interrupted by Rom. 15:13-21.

Compare Isaiah 60:2-3's "rising" with Romans 11:11's "fall."

It is up to you to make the case for your belief and to express it clearly. That is the burden for someone making a positive case. You are not even explaining yourself in this supposed explanation. If you object to what I have said then why not address what I said directly? I have told you I do not read books on dispensationalism, traditional or hyper and up until now you yourself have expressed disdain for those who utilize books. If this is what you think then you have to step forward and communicate the beliefs you hold.

I know Israel fell, but you claim to know exactly the moment as if there were a sharp dividing line in history just as there is in the charts. I am not convinced of that. Like the hardening of an individual person's heart the nation of Israel simply listened less and less. In 135 AD Rabbi Akiva proclaimed Simeon Bar Kochba to be Messiah. The light was eclipsed. The nation followed him and were massacred by Rome. That was the end of Israel until the 40s. In the Middle Ages Rashi deliberately falsified the earlier Rabbis opinions on the Messianic scriptures because they fit Jesus too well. How is that for apostasy?

 

[tetelestai]

Should we just take your word?

Nope, find out for yourself.

You accuse people of blindly following Darby.

That's correct. That's what you do.

Should we blindly follow you, instead?

You shouldn't follow anyone except Jesus.

Do as much - lay your above assertion out -

The 3.5 year ministry isn't denied by many. Maybe you just like to disagree with everything I post no matter what I say.

In a nutshell:

(Luke 3:1) In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar—when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, Herod tetrarch of Galilee, his brother Philip tetrarch of Iturea and Traconitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene—

When secular history is compared to Luke 3:1, we get 26AD, which is when Jesus began His ministry.

There are at least 3 Passovers that Jesus attended. These can be found in the gospels.

Jesus was crucified in the spring of 30AD. Then there were 40 days after the resurrection.

That put's the ministry of Jesus approximately 3.5 years

 

[Danoh]

Nope, find out for yourself....

.....You shouldn't follow anyone except Jesus.

The 3.5 year ministry isn't denied by many. Maybe you just like to disagree with everything I post no matter what I say.

In a nutshell:

(Luke 3:1) In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar—when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, Herod tetrarch of Galilee, his brother Philip tetrarch of Iturea and Traconitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene—

When secular history is compared to Luke 3:1, we get 26AD, which is when Jesus began His ministry.

There are at least 3 Passovers that Jesus attended. These can be found in the gospels.

Jesus was crucified in the spring of 30AD. Then there were 40 days after the resurrection.

That put's the ministry of Jesus approximately 3.5 years

Just wanted to hear you out.

Not only did you not lay out the relevant passages, but your numbers do not add up.

Never mind, as usual, John W is right about you - when given the opportunity to lay things out, you make self-righteous excuses and then simply post your assertions.

 

[tetelestai]

Just wanted to hear you out.

Not only did you not lay out the relevant passages, but your numbers do not add up.

Never mind, as usual, John W is right about you - when given the opportunity to lay things out, you make self-righteous excuses and then simply post your assertions.

I made a premise. If you disagree, make your argument.

You are not in charge, and don't get to tell me how I have to post, how my posts are supposed to be, or how I am supposed to back my premise.

If you disagree that the ministry of Jesus was 3.5 years, then just make your case instead of all the drama you always try to create.

 

[john w]

You shouldn't follow anyone except Jesus.

Then why do you follow satan, Craigie? And show some respect, child of the devil. You are to address Him with respect, and honor, as the Lord Jesus Christ, not "Jesus," his earthly name of humiliation, and one day, you, and your father, will address him as such, and bow down to Him, ackowledging Him as such.

And learn how to quote properly, serpent.

 

[Danoh]

I made a premise. If you disagree, make your argument.

You are not in charge, and don't get to tell me how I have to post, how my posts are supposed to be, or how I am supposed to back my premise.

If you disagree that the ministry of Jesus was not 3.5 years, then just make your case instead of all the drama you always try to create.

Fool, I just did - exactly as you did, as with you, my own assertions - after the passages I cited that you responded to with your own notions, got you nowhere.

Hide. You have no case. I constantly back what I say with plenty of Scripture. You come along and play this same exact nonsense each time around.

Don't say I did not try to hear you out. I did, but you failed to present the passages.

You know, as others seeing this constant recurrent pattern of yours know - that you have no case, thus your hiding beyond all this self-righteous b.s. of yours.

That is all that is - your delusional belief system.

Never mind, liar.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

They are the same gospel with two different audiences.

Nope. The Kingdom Message was to the Jews and the Grace Message
was brought to the gentiles by The Apostle Paul.

1) The Jews: Faith plus works.
2) The Gentiles: Faith alone.

Today: Both Jew and gentile are under the Grace Message. Only one
message today.

 

[john w]

Fool, I just did - exactly as you did, as with you, my own assertions - after the passages I cited that you responded to with your own notions, got you nowhere.

Hide. You have no case. I constantly back what I say with plenty of Scripture. You come along and play this same exact nonsense each time around.

Don't say I did not try to hear you out. I did, but you failed to present the passages.

You know, as others seeing this constant recurrent pattern of yours know - that you have no case, thus your hiding beyond all this self-righteous b.s. of yours.

That is all that is - your delusional belief system.

Never mind, liar.

His "dispie"/MAD obsession, Danoh, has resulted in him engaging in deception, habitual lying, sophistry, satanic accusations, hypocrisy, and dishonest, demonic "debating" tactics, of which no member of the boc would/should engage. He's a lying, spineless, demonic Preterist/AD 70-ist con artist, attempting to devour/fleece the sheep/babes in Christ.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

TeT just disrupts threads with his non-sense about Christ already
returning in 70 AD. His junk is a waste of every bodies time.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Now watch him mention, "DARBY."

 

[Danoh]

Now watch him mention, "DARBY."

Bring it on...

Dispensationalism,
A
Right
Bible -
Yes!

 

[achduke]

Nope. The Kingdom Message was to the Jews and the Grace Message
was brought to the gentiles by The Apostle Paul.

1) The Jews: Faith plus works.
2) The Gentiles: Faith alone.

Today: Both Jew and gentile are under the Grace Message. Only one
message today.

Paul told believers not to sin. To sin is to transgress the laws of God. What is your definition of works?

Also Paul talks about the kingdom of God in almost every letter from Romans and on. Where is the break between gospels?

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

Just do a search for kingdom on every letter after Romans. You will find it in almost all of the letters.

 

[tetelestai]

Fool, I just did - exactly as you did, as with you, my own assertions - after the passages I cited that you responded to with your own notions, got you nowhere.

Hide. You have no case. I constantly back what I say with plenty of Scripture. You come along and play this same exact nonsense each time around.

Don't say I did not try to hear you out. I did, but you failed to present the passages.

You know, as others seeing this constant recurrent pattern of yours know - that you have no case, thus your hiding beyond all this self-righteous b.s. of yours.

That is all that is - your delusional belief system.

Never mind, liar.

You have yet to tell us how many years the ministry of Jesus was.

I said 3.5

If you disagree, just tell us.

But so far, you have not told us.

 

[tetelestai]

Bring it on...

Dispensationalism,
A
Right
Bible -
Yes!

Acronyms and Acrostics are for Calvinists.

 

[tetelestai]

1) The Jews: Faith plus works.
2) The Gentiles: Faith alone.

Nope, nothing could be further from the truth.

John 3:16 is pretty simple, there are no works attached.

Your Dispensationalism is a mess.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

You have yet to tell us how many years the ministry of Jesus was.

I said 3.5

If you disagree, just tell us.

But so far, you have not told us.

Hey man, this aint no dating site.-- John W

:wazzup: :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

 

[tetelestai]

Now watch him mention, "DARBY."

I don't even have to, I can just watch one of you guys parrot him.

 

[tetelestai]

Just do a search for kingdom on every letter after Romans. You will find it in almost all of the letters.

Darby followers are big on Romans - Philemon.

The word "kingdom" is found in all the epistles from Romans - Philemon in the KJV except for 2 Cor, Philippians, 1 Tim, and Philemon.

IOW, Paul talked about it all the time.