Where are we as a nation going?

[elected4ever]

So your saying it was ok? and is morally ok to own a black man cause he was black?

If a person paid for a slave then the slave was property. It did not matter if that person was Black, White, Green, red or yellow. Not all slaves were Negro. They were just the most dominant and visible group. When an entity controls 100% of your productivity then you are a slave of that entity. Today, the United States controls 100% of your productivity. It is by there generosity that we are allowed to keep some of it but they even borrow money on your ability to produce.

 

[wiseman]

... When an entity controls 100% of your productivity then you are a slave of that entity.

This is a very loose definition of slavery. The Black American slave was a chattel slave defined "...as the absolute legal ownership of a person or persons, including the legal right to buy and sell them."

Your equation of the "modern American" as slave with Black American slave of the 18th and 19th century is just intellectually sloppy.

 

[elected4ever]

This is a very loose definition of slavery. The Black American slave was a chattel slave defined "...as the absolute legal ownership of a person or persons, including the legal right to buy and sell them."

Your equation of the "modern American" as slave with Black American slave of the 18th and 19th century is just intellectually sloppy.

Sloppy? Get your head out of the sand. Tell me sir, What backs up the American dollar? Is it not the goods and services of the American people? Well, Who produces those goods and services? The federal government has the right to attach anything and everything you think you own and force you to produce in order to pay the federal debt if demanded by our creditors. There is nothing else to pay the debt with and you are 100% libel for the debt with 100% of the goods and services you produce. Any creditable analysis of our monetary and tax system verifies this. You are a slave sir. as well as me.

 

[wiseman]

Sloppy? Get your head out of the sand. Tell me sir, What backs up the American dollar? Is it not the goods and services of the American people? Well, Who produces those goods and services? The federal government has the right to attach anything and everything you think you own and force you to produce in order to pay the federal debt if demanded by our creditors. There is nothing else to pay the debt with and you are 100% libel for the debt with 100% of the goods and services you produce. Any creditable analysis of our monetary and tax system verifies this. You are a slave sir. as well as me.

As a "Modern American Slave" you work within the largest economy in the world and can travel freely throughout the world and participate or work in other economies. Further you can give up your citizenship and and become a citizen of another country at your leisure. Further still you are able to chose your government who 'oppresses you'.

By contrast the Black slaves were kidnapped from a different continent, carried across the ocean and forced to work until they were dead, sold or (rarely) granted freedom. They certainly could not move freely about. They could not choose to move to different plantation that offered a better benefits package... They definitely did not participate in any political process at any level that impacted their well being....

One, I suppose, can draw parallels between the "Modern American slave" plight or status and that of the historical BLack slave but it would have to be with a free hand and that would result in sloppy lines.

 

[elected4ever]

As a "Modern American Slave" you work within the largest economy in the world and can travel freely throughout the world and participate or work in other economies. Further you can give up your citizenship and and become a citizen of another country at your leisure. Further still you are able to chose your government who 'oppresses you'.

By contrast the Black slaves were kidnapped from a different continent, carried across the ocean and forced to work until they were dead, sold or (rarely) granted freedom. They certainly could not move freely about. They could not choose to move to different plantation that offered a better benefits package... They definitely did not participate in any political process at any level that impacted their well being....

One, I suppose, can draw parallels between the "Modern American slave" plight or status and that of the historical BLack slave but it would have to be with a free hand and that would result in sloppy lines.

You have not answered the questions sir. You are ducking the issue. If any entity has authority over 100% of the goods you can produce and 100% of the services you can provide, what does that make you? Your willingness or unwillingness is moot to the question. If the entity allows you to keep a percentage of your goods and services to give you a felling of well being is also moot. We face the same plight as the Negro slave. How do we become free from the tyranny of our owners? Swapping one owner for another does not make us free.

 

[wiseman]

You have not answered the questions sir. You are ducking the issue. If any entity has authority over 100% of the goods you can produce and 100% of the services you can provide, what does that make you? Your willingness or unwillingness is moot to the question. If the entity allows you to keep a percentage of your goods and services to give you a felling of well being is also moot. We face the same plight as the Negro slave. How do we become free from the tyranny of our owners? Swapping one owner for another does not make us free.

It is not the 'authority' itself but the exercise of that 'authority' that may be enslaving; how many times now, have 100% of your goods and services been extracted from you by this 'authority'? (In true slavery the answer is: constantly)
Further in a democracy the government and its 'authority' is legitimized by the people, but slaves do not give their masters authority (in the same legitimizing manner)...

The ability to swap one owner for another in my estimation places you way beyond the Black slave...


That's all from me tonight -- I'm at the hospital working tonight and have some pressing issues to attend -- thanks for the time tonight, interesting chat will pick it up again later...

 

[Perceptive]

Where are we as a nation going?

It is sad to see why so many of people in this nation are deceived beyond redemption. America is gone down hill and shall never rise above morality because she has chosen the evils of selfishness and lies and hatred. She is going to hell and utter destruction. No nation ever in written history has lasted past their rule and when America overstepped her bounds, she began a downward spiral and has been exposed to what she is all about. I shall not pray for this nation at all but I shall pray only for my family and my people to beware and not fall anymore into her wiles of deception. this is my observation and my present feelings.

 

[Granite]

We are so lost and adrift as a nation that the significance of Hyde's snide snap judgment is lost on most people.

 

[drbrumley]

Thats the key word, Kidnapped.

Slavery is immoral cause in the case of American Slavery, these blacks were KIDNAPPED and then brought here and sold to the highest bidder. Slavery as in someone commits a crime and then convicted and forced to pay thru thier services is is not what this is about. The wholesale kidnapping of people is IMMORAL.

Think I read somewhere that God ordered the death penalty for kidnappers.

 

[elected4ever]

We are so lost and adrift as a nation that the significance of Hyde's snide snap judgment is lost on most people.

It is that most Americans don't care as lone as their bellies are full. Let the other guy worry about it.

 

[Neo-Puritan]

Where in the Bible does it say that slavery is immoral?

Chattel slavery, as was practiced in the United States prior to the War Between the States, represented the lowest, vilest form of the institution running afoul of numerous prohibitions of even the Mosiac Law ranging from how the slaves were acquired (via kidnapping) to holding them indefinitely to breaking apart married couples and even entire families. Admittedly, the Bible can be said to condone something closer to what we would think of indentured servitude, but even the Mosiac system is distinctively different from what was practiced within the United States.

 

[Neo-Puritan]

We are so lost and adrift as a nation that the significance of Hyde's snide snap judgment is lost on most people.

And because of this the march towards facism continues with many in the Religious Right cheering it along.

 

[Kass]

Where's the "I don't understand what Hyde meant" option?