When God saves a sinner, does that sinner become sinlessly perfect?

[marke]

I believe the Bible does not teach the idea that God's people are sinlessly perfect on earth. Here is a passage from Psalm 38:

15 For in thee, O Lord, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God.

16 For I said, Hear me, lest otherwise they should rejoice over me: when my foot slippeth, they magnify themselves against me.

17 For I am ready to halt, and my sorrow is continually before me.

18 For I will declare mine iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin.

19 But mine enemies are lively, and they are strong: and they that hate me wrongfully are multiplied.

20 They also that render evil for good are mine adversaries; because I follow the thing that good is.

21 Forsake me not, O Lord: O my God, be not far from me.

22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

Far too many modern religious people do not pray to God for deliverance daily from sin and evil. They may imagine themselves rich and increased with goods and having need of nothing, but they do not know they are poor and miserable and blind and naked.

 

[Bradley D]

I do not feel perfect. I believe in spiritual progression not perfection.

 

[Hoping]

I believe the Bible does not teach the idea that God's people are sinlessly perfect on earth. Here is a passage from Psalm 38:

15 For in thee, O Lord, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God.

16 For I said, Hear me, lest otherwise they should rejoice over me: when my foot slippeth, they magnify themselves against me.

17 For I am ready to halt, and my sorrow is continually before me.

18 For I will declare mine iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin.

19 But mine enemies are lively, and they are strong: and they that hate me wrongfully are multiplied.

20 They also that render evil for good are mine adversaries; because I follow the thing that good is.

21 Forsake me not, O Lord: O my God, be not far from me.

22 Make haste to help me, O Lord my salvation.

Far too many modern religious people do not pray to God for deliverance daily from sin and evil. They may imagine themselves rich and increased with goods and having need of nothing, but they do not know they are poor and miserable and blind and naked.

The OT's "picture" of sin, and the lack of escape from it, is well documented.
But so is the NT's escape from it.

 

[Hoping]

I do not feel perfect. I believe in spiritual progression not perfection.

Progression to...less imperfection?
Yuck.
The Lord said the truth would free us from committing sin. (John 8:32-34)
Paul wrote that we would never be tempted above what we could handle and that the Lord would provide an escape from every temptation. (1 Cor 10:13)
We can now crucify and bury the old fleshly minded man and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4-6)
We can now be perfectly sinless. (Rom 6:7)

 

[marke]

The OT's "picture" of sin, and the lack of escape from it, is well documented.
But so is the NT's escape from it.

Did any OT saints ever completely "escape" from sin on earth like you suggest NT saints did?

 

[marke]

Progression to...less imperfection?
Yuck.
The Lord said the truth would free us from committing sin. (John 8:32-34)
Paul wrote that we would never be tempted above what we could handle and that the Lord would provide an escape from every temptation. (1 Cor 10:13)
We can now crucify and bury the old fleshly minded man and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4-6)
We can now be perfectly sinless. (Rom 6:7)

Why are Christians told to crucify the flesh after salvation if there is no longer any flesh to be crucified?

 

[Hoping]

Did any OT saints ever completely "escape" from sin on earth like you suggest NT saints did?

As sin isn't charged without a Law against the deed, anybody OT folks with faith in God will be saved on the last day's judgement.
After the initialization of the Mosaic Law, everyone who had partaken in the Law's atonements will be saved on the last day's judgement.
As for completely escaping from sin?...I believe Enoch and Elijah escaped.
Both were "taken away" instead of dying.
Can you think of any more?

 

[Hoping]

Why are Christians told to crucify the flesh after salvation if there is no longer any flesh to be crucified?

Your idea of "salvation" is different from mine.
You think salvation happens before the final judgement, and I don't.
The flesh is crucified when it is "immersed" into Christ's death and burial at our water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Rom 6:6)
What we are actually told is to keep it dead. (Rom 8:13, Col 3:5)

 

[marke]

As sin isn't charged without a Law against the deed, anybody OT folks with faith in God will be saved on the last day's judgement.
After the initialization of the Mosaic Law, everyone who had partaken in the Law's atonements will be saved on the last day's judgement.
As for completely escaping from sin?...I believe Enoch and Elijah escaped.
Both were "taken away" instead of dying.
Can you think of any more?

Your Bible interpretations are a jumble of mish-mashed confusion barely discernable as related to Christianity.
Who in OT Israel lived without the law but will be saved in the judgment?
What OT atonements offered to Jews salvation in the end but not before?
Is that how God intended for His people to completely escape from sin, leave earth?

Do you even know why sinners go to hell?

 

[marke]

Your idea of "salvation" is different from mine.
You think salvation happens before the final judgement, and I don't.
The flesh is crucified when it is "immersed" into Christ's death and burial at our water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Rom 6:6)
What we are actually told is to keep it dead. (Rom 8:13, Col 3:5)

The Bible teaches of more than one aspect or type of salvation. I mean to promote all types and aspects of salvation as taught in the Bible, including the fact that today is the day of salvation, not tomorrow.

2 Corinthians 6:2
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

 

[Hoping]

Your Bible interpretations are a jumble of mish-mashed confusion barely discernable as related to Christianity.

What sort of Christianity are you measuring my words by?

Who in OT Israel lived without the law but will be saved in the judgment?

Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, Enoch, Elijah, and others.

What OT atonements offered to Jews salvation in the end but not before?

Before it?
As the judgement happens on the last day, they will only find out if their names are in the book of life on that last day of judgement.

Is that how God intended for His people to completely escape from sin, leave earth?

OT or NT?
Only Enoch and Elijah escaped death in the OT.
If that doesn't mean they were also without sin, I don't know what would.
In the NT, we don't escape sin by leaving the earth, but by killing the "old man" at his water baptism into Christ and into His death. (Rom 6:7)
After the "old man's" death and burial, with Christ, he is "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life." (Rom 6:4)
Romans 8 goes into quite good detail of the differences between walking in the old "flesh" and walking in the new "Spirit".
Gal 5:24 says..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
That is how we escape from sin.

Do you even know why sinners go to hell?

Because their names have been erased from the book of life.

 

[Hoping]

The Bible teaches of more than one aspect or type of salvation. I mean to promote all types and aspects of salvation as taught in the Bible, including the fact that today is the day of salvation, not tomorrow.

2 Corinthians 6:2
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Do you feel that a man who recognizes that Jesus died for his sins, will ever commit another sin?
If a man really submits to God, his new life has already started.
It is a life walked in the Spirit and not in the flesh.
If that man endures faithfully until the last day, he will find his name in the book of life.

Now is the day to turn to God, resulting in salvation.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Because their names have been erased from the book of life.

Wrong.

They will go to hell because they have rejected their Creator who loves them. Hell is simply "the place where God is not." God is merciful enough to allow those who reject Him to spend eternity apart from Him, even though it will result in eternal suffering, because it would be crueler to them to force them to live with Him whom they hate.

 

[Hoping]

Wrong.

They will go to hell because they have rejected their Creator who loves them. Hell is simply "the place where God is not." God is merciful enough to allow those who reject Him to spend eternity apart from Him, even though it will result in eternal suffering, because it would be crueler to them to force them to live with Him whom they hate.

What's the difference?
"Hell is simply..."
You sure no how to minimize the worst thing ever conceived.

 

[JudgeRightly]

What's he difference?

*the

The difference is that that is the reason. Your answer is just one of the consequences.

"Hell is simply..."
You sure no how to minimize the worst thing ever conceived.

*know

Oh? Does a statement of reality bother you that much?

Hell exists. It exists because God needed somewhere to put those who reject Him for eternity.

Why Hell is Forever | KGOV.com

kgov.com

 

[marke]

What sort of Christianity are you measuring my words by?

Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, Enoch, Elijah, and others.

Before the law was given nobody was condemned to hell or just Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were not condemned to hell? Was nobody saved on earth in the OT? What distinguished the righteous from the wicked in the OT and was that distinction evident on earth at the time?

Before it?
As the judgement happens on the last day, they will only find out if their names are in the book of life on that last day of judgement.

How do names get in the book of life and when are names removed from the book of life and for what reasons?

OT or NT?
Only Enoch and Elijah escaped death in the OT.

Nobody in the NT has escaped death either.

If that doesn't mean they were also without sin, I don't know what would.

Why would the fact that Enoch and Elijah were transported in time to the middle of the tribulation in the future mean they were without sin?

In the NT, we don't escape sin by leaving the earth, but by killing the "old man" at his water baptism into Christ and into His death. (Rom 6:7)
After the "old man's" death and burial, with Christ, he is "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life." (Rom 6:4)

You killed your old man and escaped the presence of sin by getting baptized in water? I don't agree.

Romans 8 goes into quite good detail of the differences between walking in the old "flesh" and walking in the new "Spirit".
Gal 5:24 says..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
That is how we escape from sin.

You claim Christians escape sin by getting baptized and crucifying the flesh, but Paul said to "reckon yourselves dead unto sin," not "acknowledge that you have been totally delivered from the presence of sin."

 

[ttruscott]

YES...but not by magic but by the help of the Holy Spirit, Heb 12:5-11.

The word saved has little meaning because it covers a long time process with different stages and catch points during it being worked out.

 

[Hoping]

*the

The difference is that that is the reason. Your answer is just one of the consequences.

?

*know
Oh? Does a statement of reality bother you that much?
Hell exists. It exists because God needed somewhere to put those who reject Him for eternity.

Why Hell is Forever | KGOV.com

kgov.com

The spelling mistakes are, in hind-sight, a sign that my blood sugar was low and was time for lunch.
Hell will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Hoping]

Before the law was given nobody was condemned to hell or just Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were not condemned to hell?

Is that a question?

Was nobody saved on earth in the OT? What distinguished the righteous from the wicked in the OT and was that distinction evident on earth at the time?

I feel that many will be "saved" after the day of judgement.
The wicked didn't atone for their sins, the comparatively righteous did,

How do names get in the book of life and when are names removed from the book of life and for what reasons?

I'm not sure how or when they were entered, but probably at conception.
They are erased when iniquity is found in a person.

Nobody in the NT has escaped death either.

Enoch and Elijah did.

Why would the fact that Enoch and Elijah were transported in time to the middle of the tribulation in the future mean they were without sin?

The wages of sin is death, (Rom 6:23), and they didn't die

You killed your old man and escaped the presence of sin by getting baptized in water? I don't agree.

It is written..." Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

You claim Christians escape sin by getting baptized and crucifying the flesh, but Paul said to "reckon yourselves dead unto sin," not "acknowledge that you have been totally delivered from the presence of sin."

There is no difference.
We can't honestly "reckon" something dead, if it isn't really dead.

 

[marke]

Is that a question?

I feel that many will be "saved" after the day of judgement.
The wicked didn't atone for their sins, the comparatively righteous did,

Jesus, The High priest, makes atonement for sins, not sinners.

I'm not sure how or when they were entered, but probably at conception.
They are erased when iniquity is found in a person.

You are wrong about why names are blotted out of the book of life and you are wrong about how names get into the book of life to begin with.

Enoch and Elijah did.
The wages of sin is death, (Rom 6:23), and they didn't die

Enoch and Elijah will die before they enter the presence of Jesus in heaven.

It is written..." Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Christians should walk in newness of life but if they don't they will be chastened of the Lord.

There is no difference.
We can't honestly "reckon" something dead, if it isn't really dead.

No Christian can honestly reckon himself dead if he is not dying daily to his selfish desires and not walking with God daily as he should.