When Did the Disciples of Jesus Stop Observing the Old Testament Laws?

[clefty]

When Did the Disciples of Jesus
Stop Observing the Old Testament Laws?

"While Jesus was on earth, he and his disciples practiced the religion that God gave to the Israelites through Moses. The guidelines they followed were found primarily in the Torah*, which is the first five books of the Old Testament -- the writings of Moses. The Torah contains a variety of information including history, the Ten Commandments, and instructions pertaining to finance, government, family, health, farming, dress, feasts, and worship.

It was at some time after the death of Jesus that Christians stopped observing the Old Testament laws. Exactly when that change occurred is not clear in the Bible. Many people believe the change was made by Jesus himself immediately after the resurrection. However, there is compelling evidence in the book of Acts that the change did not occur until much later.

This article examines all the evidence in the book of Acts that indicates whether or not the apostles and early Christians were still following the Old Testament laws. The context of the story is important. It would be a good idea to read the whole book of Acts to understand the passages covered in this study.

...


Acts 6:11-14 Then they secretly persuaded some men to say, "We have heard Stephen speak words of blasphemy against Moses and against God." So they stirred up the people and the elders and the teachers of the law. They seized Stephen and brought him before the Sanhedrin. They produced false witnesses, who testified, "This fellow never stops speaking against this holy place and against the law. For we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs Moses handed down to us."

The enemies of Stephen would not have needed the false witnesses if Stephen had been disobeying the laws of the Old Testament. In that case, truthful witnesses would have easily condemned him before the Sanhedrin. The fact that they needed false witnesses to accuse Stephen implies that he was actually obedient to the laws of the Torah."

http://www.fogwhistle.com/acts/evidence.html

I find this study a most compelling argument that those assemblies following "the Way" in that first century were nothing like the Church or churches today...

Why would Paul believe live and practice one way and teach another?

Yahushua was clear "Think not that I have come to destroy the Law..."

The Law remains else why would we need Grace? Besides, what better way can we show our gratitude for what was done for us than to obey?

We wish to keep it, not in order to become saved, but because we have faith we are saved...through Him.

Like the law of gravity, we don't keep it, we merely understand it keeps us...

 

[Totton Linnet]

We SEE Peter transgressing the law when he visited Cornelius and God showed him by vision that the Gentiles were no longer to be regarded as common.

Paul said to Peter at Antioch "how can you live as a Gentile and then tell the Gentiles they must become Jews?"

 

[clefty]

We SEE Peter transgressing the law when he visited Cornelius and God showed him by vision that the Gentiles were no longer to be regarded as common.

Paul said to Peter at Antioch "how can you live as a Gentile and then tell the Gentiles they must become Jews?"

Not sure what you are getting at...

Who was breaking which law?

 

[jamie]

When Did the Disciples of Jesus
Stop Observing the Old Testament Laws?

They stopped observing the Mosaic law the night they observed the NT Passover with Jesus.

 

[clefty]

They stopped observing the Mosaic law the night they observed the NT Passover with Jesus.

So that's why they hurried to bury Him before Sabbath...and came with spices after the Sabbath was over...?

BTW the last supper was not the Passover as they left the room singing to go out to the garden...the next day the lambs were killed when He was...

 

[jamie]

So that's why they hurried to bury Him before Sabbath...and came with spices after the Sabbath was over...?

BTW the last supper was not the Passover as they left the room singing to go out to the garden...the next day the lambs were killed when He was...

Was it Jesus' Passover?

When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him. Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer, for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” (Luke 22:14-16)​

The Passover has not been fulfilled.

 

[Danoh]

The Twelve and their followers REMAINED under the Law.

How long?

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

24:20 But pray your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Years later, He had still not returned. And we read...

Acts 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

What about the Gentiles?

Acts 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

MJs confuse that as referring to Sheva Mitzvot B'nei Noach, or the Noahide Laws Gentiles are supposedly under, this side of the Cross.

The Apostle of the Gentiles: Paul, would beg to differ as to that which James is talking about as James had no authority over the Gentiles.

Galatians 2:1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: ) 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. 2:10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

Paul's instruction to the Gentiles regarding this issue?

1 Corinthians 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him. 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

What all that is, is that AT THAT TIME both assemblies of God had THEN been on Earth.

The MJ's assembly (James, Cephas, John and their followers "the circumcision") diminishing away TEMPORARILY due to Unbelieving Israel's TEMPORARY fall...

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[clefty]

Was it Jesus' Passover?

When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him. Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer, for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” (Luke 22:14-16)​

The Passover has not been fulfilled.

Yahusha was the Passover...cursed to die innocent but the first born of a disobedient race

Is why the disciples continued to celebrate...even after the Ascension...and it will be celebrated with Him in the world to come...

we are instructed to celebrate with the the new unleavened bread of sincerity and truth...

(Note also Paul did not say with the unleavened bread transformed into His flesh...)

 

[patrick jane]

Like the law of gravity, we don't keep it, we merely understand it keeps us...

:thumb:

 

[jamie]

Yahusha was the Passover...

But that was not the question I was addressing. Someone asked, "When Did the Disciples of Jesus Stop Observing the Old Testament Laws"?

My answer was that it was Jesus' NT Passover. Why? Because it was observed the night before the Passover was killed on the 14th.

When the Jews observed the Passover of Exodus 12:42 Jesus was already dead and entombed.

 

[Nick M]

Not sure what you are getting at...

Who was breaking which law?

I see no reason to discuss if you claim honestly you don't know what she is talking about. Come back after you have studied the Holy Bible.

 

[Bradley D]

A change began with the conversion of Gentiles. Paul argued that circumcision was not required of Gentiles. In Acts James and the other elders agreed. They said, "as for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality” (Acts 21:25).

As previously mentioned Peter was told that the restrictions on food and associating with Gentiles were no longer required. Prior to that a Gentile proselyte had to be circumcised and adhere to Jewish law and customs.

 

[Danoh]

We SEE Peter transgressing the law when he visited Cornelius and God showed him by vision that the Gentiles were no longer to be regarded as common.

Paul said to Peter at Antioch "how can you live as a Gentile and then tell the Gentiles they must become Jews?"

Not sure what you are getting at...

Who was breaking which law?

Take key words from what she said, and use them to locate where in Scripture what she is talking about is found.

Then, when you find those verses, do the same with them - using key words from those verses - try to locate other verses that also talk about what those verses mentioned.

So as not to give you what is actually your responsibility, here is an example of how to do this using another passage.

In Matthew 8 we read...

8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Say, you want to know what that gift is that Jesus was talking about there.

Its key words are leprosy, cleansed, shew thyself to a priest, offer the gift, commanded by Moses, for a testimony.

Obviously, that is connected to a commandment given by Moses in connection with leprosy.

As you start chasing all that down, you end up at Leviticus 14, where Moses gives Israel The Law of the Leper, etc.

You now have a simple method of studying a thing out in the Bible.

Do the same with the words that Totten used.

As you go along, you pick up principles simply by asking yourself 'okay, what have I learned about how to study a thing out?'

Ask yourself that each time you study and write down your answers as principles or rules of thumb that you can follow whenever you study and or anytime you find yourself stuck.

Writing them down as principles you can follow also helps you to check yourself against mistakes.

You really do have to invent this wheel for yourself, as you go.

Because most writers of "commentaries" supposedly "about" the Bible, consistently contradict themselves.

Because they are basically parroting books they read. And that goes all the way back to when this simple process I recommend was basically thrown out the window.

Just start with the above and often ask who; what; when; where; why; how types of questions.

If you'll read your post above, you began to do just that - you asked what and who.

Now you know where to begin to go from there.

Again, you build your key list from one verse, and then look for other verses where the same or similar key words are also used.

There is more to this than this, but its a start.

The best to you in this...

 

[Ben Masada]

When Did the Disciples of Jesus
Stop Observing the Old Testament Laws?

"While Jesus was on earth, he and his disciples practiced the religion that God gave to the Israelites through Moses. The guidelines they followed were found primarily in the Torah*, which is the first five books of the Old Testament -- the writings of Moses. The Torah contains a variety of information including history, the Ten Commandments, and instructions pertaining to finance, government, family, health, farming, dress, feasts, and worship.

It was at some time after the death of Jesus that Christians stopped observing the Old Testament laws. Exactly when that change occurred is not clear in the Bible. Many people believe the change was made by Jesus himself immediately after the resurrection. However, there is compelling evidence in the book of Acts that the change did not occur until much later.

This article examines all the evidence in the book of Acts that indicates whether or not the apostles and early Christians were still following the Old Testament laws. The context of the story is important. It would be a good idea to read the whole book of Acts to understand the passages covered in this study.

...


Acts 6:11-14 Then they secretly persuaded some men to say, "We have heard Stephen speak words of blasphemy against Moses and against God." So they stirred up the people and the elders and the teachers of the law. They seized Stephen and brought him before the Sanhedrin. They produced false witnesses, who testified, "This fellow never stops speaking against this holy place and against the law. For we have heard him say that this Jesus of Nazareth will destroy this place and change the customs Moses handed down to us."

The enemies of Stephen would not have needed the false witnesses if Stephen had been disobeying the laws of the Old Testament. In that case, truthful witnesses would have easily condemned him before the Sanhedrin. The fact that they needed false witnesses to accuse Stephen implies that he was actually obedient to the laws of the Torah."

http://www.fogwhistle.com/acts/evidence.html

I find this study a most compelling argument that those assemblies following "the Way" in that first century were nothing like the Church or churches today...

Why would Paul believe live and practice one way and teach another?

Yahushua was clear "Think not that I have come to destroy the Law..."

The Law remains else why would we need Grace? Besides, what better way can we show our gratitude for what was done for us than to obey?

We wish to keep it, not in order to become saved, but because we have faith we are saved...through Him.

Like the law of gravity, we don't keep it, we merely understand it keeps us...

The disciples of Jesus will stop observing the OT laws when heaven and earth stop existing. That's what Jesus himself said in Matthew 5:17-19. Now, go ahead and do the same.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus told his disciples that the Pharisees and teachers of the law sat in Moses' seat.

What does that mean?

That means they enforced the regulations of the temple.

What were the regulations?

The regulations were the ceremonial works, the purification works.

Jesus said they, his disciples, had to do what they, the pharisees and teachers of the law said.

The disciples also had to preach the gospel.

Peter was afraid of the Jews so he acted out of line with the gospel.

Jesus warned his disciples of what will happen, eventually.

The old law was still in force because the temple was still standing, and the law was still enforced by those with power; but, it was all going to be obsolete, it was fading.

Jesus also spoke of the temple and its destruction.

No one can obey the old law after the temple was destroyed.

Any way a person wants to do what God says, they must come to Him through Jesus, whether Jew or Gentile.

 

[God's Truth]

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you.

Matthew 23:2 "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

Luke 19:44
They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."

2 Corinthians 3:13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away.

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Galatians 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.

Galatians 2:14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

 

[God's Truth]

Why would Paul believe live and practice one way and teach another?

Yahushua was clear "Think not that I have come to destroy the Law..."

That means he fulfilled the Law and the Prophets.

What does that mean?

That means that the shadow was gone in Christ.

That means that every old law, the purification/ceremonial works were about Jesus.

A shadow comes before a man when the light is behind the person.

In Jesus, there is no shadow, for Jesus is light.

We no longer obey the teaching tools, the shadow that was from Jesus, who was coming.

The Law remains else why would we need Grace? Besides, what better way can we show our gratitude for what was done for us than to obey?

You better believe we have to obey. We have to obey Jesus' teachings. We no longer have to obey the old law, the ceremonial/purification regulations.

What does that mean?

It means we no longer have to justify ourselves by doing those regulations just to go to the temple to worship God, for that is where His Spirit was.

No one has to do those works anymore, because faith that Jesus' blood purifies us is what cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

If you practice the old law and still get circumcised and observe special days, then you will have to do ALL the other regulations of the old law, which is NOW IMPOSSIBLE.

You will have also FALLEN FROM GRACE, and you are what is called a 'bitter root', and if you influence others, you will have helped in defiling them.

 

[God's Truth]

Galatians 5:3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

Galatians 5:2
Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

Hebrews 12:15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.

 

[steko]

Yahusha was the Passover...cursed to die innocent but the first born of a disobedient race

Is why the disciples continued to celebrate...even after the Ascension...and it will be celebrated with Him in the world to come...

we are instructed to celebrate with the the new unleavened bread of sincerity and truth...

(Note also Paul did not say with the unleavened bread transformed into His flesh...)

Who is Yahusha? That's neither Hebrew, Aramaic nor Greek.

 

[clefty]

Who is Yahusha? That's neither Hebrew, Aramaic nor Greek.

Neither is the name Jesus...

But that's not the point of this thread is it?

Do you believe Paul would live one way and teach another? Christians do and misusing his writings teach there was a change or even end to the Law.