What people are missing...

The Barbarian

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You just keep on digging yourself deeper holes, Barbarian. First you said it wasn't anything to do with party, only voters. Now you say it's all about Republicans.

(fleeloader is shocked that republicans voted for a republican) :)


It seems you have an extremely short memory, for even among Republicans Trump had a lot of people opposing him.

You're drifting again. Go back and read the graph.

(paranoid blather about the press picking on Trump)

Your assertions find no support in reality. But then, anything which comes out of Trump realm has only an accidental relationship to reality.
 

Gary K

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(fleeloader is shocked that republicans voted for a republican) :)




You're drifting again. Go back and read the graph.

(paranoid blather about the press picking on Trump)

Your assertions find no support in reality. But then, anything which comes out of Trump realm has only an accidental relationship to reality.

I see. Tacit admission that you've lost the debate already.
 

Gary K

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I'm going to show further links between fascism and socialism. I'm going to do this by showing what National Socialism grew out of.

The connection between socialism and nationalism in Germany was close
from the beginning. It is significant that the most important ancestors of
National Socialism —Fichte, Rodbertus, and Lassalle—are at the same time
acknowledged fathers of socialism.* While theoretical socialism in its Marxist
form was directing the German labor movement, the authoritarian and na-
tionalist element receded for a time into the background. But not for long.’
From 1914 onward there arose from the ranks of Marxist socialism one teacher
after another who led, not the conservatives and reactionaries, but the hard-
working laborer and idealist youth into the National Socialist fold. It was only
thereafter that the tide of nationalist socialism attained major importance and
rapidly grew into the Hitlerian doctrine. The war hysteria of 1914, which, just
because of the German defeat, was never fully cured, is the beginning of the
modern development which produced National Socialism, and it was largely
with the assistance of old socialists that it rose during this period.

Perhaps the first, and in some ways the most characteristic, representative of
this development is the late Professor Werner Sombart, whose notorious
Handler und Helden (“Merchants and Heroes”) appeared in 1915.° Sombart had
begun as a Marxian socialist and, as late as 1909, could assert with pride that
he had devoted the greater part of his life to fighting for the ideas of Karl Marx.
He had done as much as any man to spread socialist ideas and anticapitalist
resentment of varying shades throughout Germany; and if German thought
became penetrated with Marxian elements in a way that was true of no other
country until the Russian revolution, this was in a large measure due to Som-
bart. At one time he was regarded as the outstanding representative of the per-
secuted socialist intelligentsia, unable, because of his radical views, to obtain a
university chair. And even after the last war the influence, inside and outside
Germany, of his work as a historian, which remained Marxist in approach af-
ter he had ceased to be a Marxist in politics, was most extensive and is partic-
ularly noticeable in the works of many of the English and American planners.

In his war book this old socialist welcomed the “German War” as the in-
evitable conflict between the commercial civilization of England and the heroic
culture of Germany. His contempt for the “commercial” views of the English
people, who had lost all warlike instincts, is unlimited. Nothing is more con-
temptible in his eyes than the universal striving after the happiness of the indi-
vidual; and what he describes as the leading maxim of English morals: be just
“that it may be well with thee and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the
land” is to him “the most infamous maxim which has ever been pronounced
by a commercial mind.’ The “German idea of the state,” as formulated by
: Fichte, Lassalle, and Rodbertus, is that the state is neither founded nor formed
by individuals, nor an aggregate of individuals, nor is its purpose to serve any
interest of individuals. It is a Volksgemeinschaft in which the individual has no
rights but only duties. Claims of the individual are always an outcome of the
“commercial spirit. “The ideas of 1789”—liberty, equality, fraternity—are
‘Characteristically commercial ideals which have no other purpose but to secure
certain advantages to individuals. The Road to Serfdom pp. 182,183

I skip a paragraph here. The beginning of next paragraph refers back to an
idea held by Sombart in which the ideal life excluded anything to do with
classically liberal ideas such as that war is inhuman and senseless and that individuals have rights. Instead
he taught that the heroic life is one in which the individual has no value other
than what is found in sacrifice for the state and that war is sacred.

If Sombart’s outburst was at the time too much even for most Germans, an-
other German professor arrived at essentially the same ideas in a more moder-
ate and more scholarly, but for that reason even more effective, form. Professor
Johann Plenge was as great an authority on Marx as Sombart. His book on
Marx und Hegel marks the beginning of the modern Hegel renaissance among
Marxian scholars; and there can be no doubt about the genuinely socialist
nature of the convictions with which he started. Among his numerous war pub-
lications the most important is a small but at the time widely discussed book
with the significant title, 1789 and 1914: The Symbolic Years in the History of the
Political Mind. It is devoted to the conflict between the “Ideas of 1789,” the ideal
of freedom, and the “Ideas of 1914,” the ideal of organization.
The Road to Serfdom p. 184

Now I skip to some of Plenge's ideas as expressed in his writings. He was profoundly
influenced by H.G. Well's book "Future in America". Because of this Plenge saw WWI
as a conflict between socialism and classical liberalism as expressed by Hayek, Adam
Smith, John Stuart Mill, etc.... He saw WWI as a war to further socialistic
concepts of government and economics.

“Because in the sphere of ideas Germany was the most convinced exponent
of all socialist dreams, and in the sphere of reality she was the most powerful ar-
chitect of the most highly organized economic system.—In us is the twentieth
century. However the war may end, we are the exemplary people. Our ideas
will determine the aims of the life of humanity—World History experiences
at present the colossal spectacle that with us a new great ideal of life penetrates
to final victory, while at the same time in England one of the World-Historical
principles finally collapses."

Johann Plenge "1789 and 1914" p.20

Remember, this is in the context of WWI, and not WWII, yet.

The war economy created in Germany in 1914 “is the first realization of a
socialist society and its spirit the first active, and not merely demanding, ap-
pearance of a socialist spirit. The needs of the war have established the social-
ist idea in German economic life, and thus the defense of our nation produced
for humanity the idea of 1914, the idea of German organization, the people’s
community (Volksgemeinschafi) of national socialism.'? ... Without our really
noticing it the whole of our political life in state and industry has risen to a
higher stage. State and economic life form a new . . . The feeling of eco-
Nomic responsibility which characterizes the work of the civil servant pervades
all private activity.”'* The new German corporative constitution of economic
life, which Professor Plenge admits is not yet ripe or complete, “is the highest
form of life of the state which has ever been known on earth.”!

This quote is from The Road to Serfdom p.185 , but encapsulates quotes from Plenge's
"1789 and 1914" pp. 82, 120, 121

I will build further upon this foundation in coming posts. There is enough here, however, to demonstrate the political climate that for decades had existed before Hitler came to power, and why the German people were so susceptible to his ideology. Socialism laid the foundation upon which Hitler added his own ideas.
 

THall

New member
The scariest part about libtards is NOT that TOL has become 'Snowflake Central', or that their own twisted brand of socialism is an actual threat..... nooooooo...... The scariest part is that they can't think, they can't even formulate relevant questions......

"What are people missing?"

Well, my Grandfather used to say....,
"You will never get the right answer if you don't have the right question"

Perhaps a much more relevant question is this.....

After the last Presidential election, why do you idiots even consider the bogus polls?

The vast majority of polls missed the the actual results by 9 to 12 percent! Claiming a margin of error of 2 to 3 percent...... my Lord........... some of you are slow learners....
 

The Barbarian

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Perhaps a much more relevant question is this.....

After the last Presidential election, why do you idiots even consider the bogus polls?

The vast majority of polls missed the the actual results by 9 to 12 percent!

Well, let's take a look. The last average of polls at Real Clear Politics, which combines them for just that purpose:

3.3 percent.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...rump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html

About 135 million people voted in that election:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ean-turnout-was-great/?utm_term=.9ecd096e708f

There were about 135 million votes cast. So her lead of 2.9 million votes was 2.1 percent more votes than Trump got. The prediction from a composite of the major polls was 3.3 percent.

So off by 1.2 percent. The guys who fed you those other numbers just made them up.

They had a little fun with your trust in them. Yeah, I know what Trump said. You guys still believe him? :think:

my Lord........... some of you are slow learners....

Someone is. "You're a sucker only until you start thinking for yourself."
 
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The Barbarian

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And of course, the faked "electoral fraud commission" imploded after states refused to give confidential information to the commission, fraud data showed Trump followers voting twice, or voting for dead people, and even one of Trump's appointees to the commission turned out to have illegally voted.

So much fail...
 

john w

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Hall of Fame
This chart, which doesn’t get nearly enough attention, shows the change in first-year presidential approval ratings from copartisans. That is, it shows Democratic approval of Democrats and Republican approval of Republicans:

blog_presidential_approval_copartisans_first_year1.gif


After an admittedly wild first year in which he disappointed liberals with his budget, gays in the military, and a missile attack on Iraq, Bill Clinton ended 1993 exactly where he started. George Bush got a huge bump across the board after 9/11, but even if you look at his approval rating through 9/10, he only lost about one percent of his support. In 2009, during a brutal recession, Obama lost three percent of his support by the end of the year.

Donald Trump has lost eight percent of his support among Republicans. During a strong economy.

I know these seem like small numbers, but they’re meaningful. It’s natural that presidents lose support among independents and members of the opposing party. Many of them want to “give the new president a chance,” and then slip away as politics takes its natural course. But polarization being what it is, recent presidents just don’t lose much support among their own party. Only in Trump’s case has there been any significant erosion.

Losing the support of people who probably didn’t vote for you in the first place doesn’t mean too much. But losing the support of people who did vote for you means electoral disaster. It’s also good news: Americans aren’t reacting to the norm-busting buffoonery of the Trump presidency with indifference. Not only is the opposition movement enormously energized, but even Republicans are losing faith in him.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dr...-has-lost-a-lot-of-support-among-republicans/

I went to this chart, when I read this stupid thread. Stupid is is stupid does, Lt. Barbarian:

item1029418_600px.jpeg
 

jgarden

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092517AdamZyglis_Cagle.jpg


What people are missing...

Like the stock market, this President and his motley crew of "deplorables" are only interested in the polls when they reflect good news!

Today the DOW fell almost 700 points (255%) - don't hold your breathe for this President to take the credit for that!
 

rexlunae

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What people are missing:

That Carter Page appeared to know that Paul Ryan would release a memo with the intention of blowing up the Russia investigation and exonerating him back in October. How did he know that?
 

zzub

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What people are missing:

That Carter Page appeared to know that Paul Ryan would release a memo with the intention of blowing up the Russia investigation and exonerating him back in October. How did he know that?

It's cos The Matrix is the real reality.
 

rexlunae

New member
It's cos The Matrix is the real reality.

I think it's more like the Russians are in contact with the Republican Party at a pretty high level. It's not just Trump and his men.

Either that or it's a really bizarre coincidence.
 

zzub

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I think it's more like the Russians are in contact with the Republican Party at a pretty high level. It's not just Trump and his men.

Either that or it's a really bizarre coincidence.

Yes. Why else would Trump be blowing a fuse.
 

intojoy

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I think it's more like the Russians are in contact with the Republican Party at a pretty high level. It's not just Trump and his men.

Either that or it's a really bizarre coincidence.

Twilight zone dude. Bring the IQ up 50 Points. You’re trippin


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Zeke

Well-known member
This chart, which doesn’t get nearly enough attention, shows the change in first-year presidential approval ratings from copartisans. That is, it shows Democratic approval of Democrats and Republican approval of Republicans:

blog_presidential_approval_copartisans_first_year1.gif


After an admittedly wild first year in which he disappointed liberals with his budget, gays in the military, and a missile attack on Iraq, Bill Clinton ended 1993 exactly where he started. George Bush got a huge bump across the board after 9/11, but even if you look at his approval rating through 9/10, he only lost about one percent of his support. In 2009, during a brutal recession, Obama lost three percent of his support by the end of the year.

Donald Trump has lost eight percent of his support among Republicans. During a strong economy.

I know these seem like small numbers, but they’re meaningful. It’s natural that presidents lose support among independents and members of the opposing party. Many of them want to “give the new president a chance,” and then slip away as politics takes its natural course. But polarization being what it is, recent presidents just don’t lose much support among their own party. Only in Trump’s case has there been any significant erosion.

Losing the support of people who probably didn’t vote for you in the first place doesn’t mean too much. But losing the support of people who did vote for you means electoral disaster. It’s also good news: Americans aren’t reacting to the norm-busting buffoonery of the Trump presidency with indifference. Not only is the opposition movement enormously energized, but even Republicans are losing faith in him.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dr...-has-lost-a-lot-of-support-among-republicans/

On October 20, 2017 Donald Trump signed Executive Order 13814 extending the state of emergency. Like all of the Presidents since 1933, Trump maintained the unconstitutional powers the state of emergency authorizes. There is only one party, the above is one of many reasons people only have privileges, they laugh at you voters and deservedly so.
 

THall

New member
What people are missing:

That Carter Page appeared to know that Paul Ryan would release a memo with the intention of blowing up the Russia investigation and exonerating him back in October. How did he know that?

Ryan did not release the memo....duh...

Carter Page has been cooperating and working with the FBI for a very long time...... Why can none of the libtards here at TOL seem to process the fact that Carter PAGE is not in jail, and not been charged.... in fact..... he is running around doing national news programs......???
 
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