ECT What makes Preterism so impossible

[Interplanner]

Has ANYBODY hit on the difference between partial preterism (an orthodox interpretation) and full preterism (heretical) yet?

Yes, many times. Why?

 

[Crucible]

Preterism ignores some pretty obvious things in Revelation. The 'Abomination of Desolation' is a perfect example- it's something foretold to happen far into time, not with the temple's destruction in the 1st century.

 

[Interplanner]

Preterism ignores some pretty obvious things in Revelation. The 'Abomination of Desolation' is a perfect example- it's something foretold to happen far into time, not with the temple's destruction in the 1st century.

No way. That is not how Daniel reads. You have assumed that the Rev is for distant time, and there is no indication of that at all. The reign of Christ mentioned in 20 is very long, but that does not mean the other things, which are pictures of the trauma of the DofJ, are distant.

 

[whitestone]

No way. That is not how Daniel reads. You have assumed that the Rev is for distant time, and there is no indication of that at all. The reign of Christ mentioned in 20 is very long, but that does not mean the other things, which are pictures of the trauma of the DofJ, are distant.

So in Revelation 7:1-2 KJV if it is all already fulfilled in the past then do you believe that you yourself do not have the name of God written in your forehead,was it all finalized back then?

 

[whitestone]

Seriously,if you believe in your heart that the beast is already risen and fell. And that the devil is in the pit and will not be loosed until the end of the mill. And that Babylon has already been judged,and the false prophet and cast into the pit then what are you trying to save us from,nothing?

 

[Danoh]

Seriously,if you believe in your heart that the beast is already risen and fell. And that the devil is in the pit and will not be loosed until the end of the mill. And that Babylon has already been judged,and the false prophet and cast into the pit then what are you trying to save us from,nothing?

From MAD :chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

Seriously,if you believe in your heart that the beast is already risen and fell. And that the devil is in the pit and will not be loosed until the end of the mill. And that Babylon has already been judged,and the false prophet and cast into the pit then what are you trying to save us from,nothing?

The REv is not a prognostication of human history. it is a pastoral piece/poem about how to handle the trauma of losing everything and many friends and family in that decade. The upside is the wedding does take place and there is a very long reign of Christ, in whom we are as believers, even though there is a short revolt at the end.

 

[Interplanner]

Seriously,if you believe in your heart that the beast is already risen and fell. And that the devil is in the pit and will not be loosed until the end of the mill. And that Babylon has already been judged,and the false prophet and cast into the pit then what are you trying to save us from,nothing?

Look at the time markers of the 1st page of the Rev.

 

[whitestone]

The REv is not a prognostication of human history. it is a pastoral piece/poem about how to handle the trauma of losing everything and many friends and family in that decade. The upside is the wedding does take place and there is a very long reign of Christ, in whom we are as believers, even though there is a short revolt at the end.

So the revolt at the end is that Ezekiel 38-39?

 

[whitestone]

So in Revelation 7:1-2 KJV if it is all already fulfilled in the past then do you believe that you yourself do not have the name of God written in your forehead,was it all finalized back then?

You didn't say if you thought you were sealed with the mark of God...

 

[Interplanner]

I don't know; I'm just refering to Rev 20. Unless there is a quote or usage of Ezek 38-9 in the NT, I'm not going to bother with it, and it better not be standing on Revelation alone.

 

[whitestone]

Look at the time markers of the 1st page of the Rev.

You never said what as a preterit you were saving us from. It cant be the stones that weigh an talent because you say it is fulfilled. The mark of the beast is all past,and all of the heads have come to reign in you eschatology so it cant be that.

As preterits you all seem to be very moved with emotion as to the great effort to try to reason through the matter with us to so that we are not deceived somehow and lost but you never say what from. If all of the things written are fulfilled what else is there for you to warn us of that we do not become deceived?

 

[Interplanner]

You are totally ignorant of justification from sin then. That is what we are saved from--from condemnation in sin. It does not matter what happens in this life--look at the expectations at the end of Rom 8! We may suffer all kinds of crap in this life, but we are justified from our sin in Christ and can even offer that to our persecutors!!!

How on earth did you get the idea that the Bible was 'marketing' a safety hatch from peril???

 

[ClimateSanity]

A dispensationalist believes we are saved from condemnation in sin. We can't help it if the voices in your head tell you otherwise.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The REv is not a prognostication of human history. it is a pastoral piece/poem about how to handle the trauma of losing everything and many friends and family in that decade.

:chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

A dispensationalist believes we are saved from condemnation in sin. We can't help it if the voices in your head tell you otherwise.

They are not 'voices in my head.'!!! They are the constant staple of the shows and broadcasts and literature that there are all kinds of catastrophic events to happen around Israel that are going to be God's judgement. So, having set up that problem, they then procede to redefine 'saved' as escape from those problems. It completely obscures what core doctrinal chapters such as Rom 3 or Gal 3 or Heb 9 are saying about sin and justification and propitiation and atonement etc.

Additionally, they have reversed the sense of 'left behind' in Mt24B in which to be left is a bad thing, whereas anyone can see that being left in place in those passages was a good thing! It is incredulous what they imagine the Bible to be saying.

I'm sure you do believe that, but D'ism has mucked up so many other things and generated this whole 'industry' of end times events and scenarios, trying to get the Bible to have 2 peoples and 2 programs play out, saved 2 ways for 2 different reasons.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

They are not 'voices in my head.'!!! They are the constant staple of the shows and broadcasts and literature that there are all kinds of catastrophic events to happen around Israel that are going to be God's judgement. So, having set up that problem, they then procede to redefine 'saved' as escape from those problems. It completely obscures what core doctrinal chapters such as Rom 3 or Gal 3 or Heb 9 are saying about sin and justification and propitiation and atonement etc.

Additionally, they have reversed the sense of 'left behind' in Mt24B in which to be left is a bad thing, whereas anyone can see that being left in place in those passages was a good thing! It is incredulous what they imagine the Bible to be saying.

I'm sure you do believe that, but D'ism has mucked up so many other things and generated this whole 'industry' of end times events and scenarios, trying to get the Bible to have 2 peoples and 2 programs play out, saved 2 ways for 2 different reasons.

All Acts 2 dispensationalists.

 

[Interplanner]

:chuckle:

Do you actually know nothing about what happened there? It is regarded as the greatest human trauma recorded by historians of the time, yet the Christian church generally seems to know or appreciate almost nothing about it, thanks to D'ism, which deflects obvious passages like Lk 19, 21, 23, Mt 24 etc well away from it--by at least 2000 years.

 

[Interplanner]

All Acts 2 dispensationalists.

I have no idea what you are saying.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Do you actually know nothing about what happened there? It is regarded as the greatest human trauma recorded by historians of the time, yet the Christian church generally seems to know or appreciate almost nothing about it, thanks to D'ism, which deflects obvious passages like Lk 19, 21, 23, Mt 24 etc well away from it--by at least 2000 years.

What happened in 70ad was prophesied, just as what will happen in the Great Tribulation was prophesied.
Separate events.