Epoisses
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We can learn lessons from the OT so it is profitable to study but IT WAS NEVER WRITTEN FOR CHRISTIANS!!! The NT is for Christians.
What is "this book of the law"?
- Thread starter Jacob
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We can learn lessons from the OT so it is profitable to study but IT WAS NEVER WRITTEN FOR CHRISTIANS!!! The NT is for Christians.
Epoisses
New member
You're against yourself.
I respect that you are a Gentile and I there is no need for you to become a Jew. You always can if you want to. Being a Christian does not keep you from being a Jew. If you were a Jew you can also be a Christian. There is no problem here, no issue. I encourage you to obey God's commands for Gentiles. Obey the commands that all Christians obey. If you do not know if you should obey a specific or particular command ask God about it, seek the scriptures, and make a decision about it. Also, don't keep others from obeying God's commands. And remember salvation is by grace through faith not of works. God has good works for you to do as a Christian. I believe you would like me say you are a Christian. We have in common all the things Christians have in common.
The word Judaizers appears in some translations. Most often Christians associate Judaizers with those who wanted new Gentile believers to be circumcised and keep the whole Law of Moses, which was entirely unnecessary. See Acts 15 NASB.
Epoisses
New member
The Judaizers were Jews who taught the Gentiles that they had to keep the law of Moses. They were condemned in the strongest terms available by Peter and Paul who were Jews themselves.
Acts 15:1 NASB - Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."
Acts 15:5 NASB - But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses."
Galatians 6:13 NASB - 13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.
Acts 15:1-41 NASB - 1 Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue. 3 Therefore, being sent on their way by the church, they were passing through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and were bringing great joy to all the brethren. 4 When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses." 6 The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter. 7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." 12 All the people kept silent, and they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they were relating what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, "Brethren, listen to me. 14 "Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. 15 "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, 16 'AFTER THESE THINGS I will return,AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN,AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS,AND I WILL RESTORE IT, 17 SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD,AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,' 18 SAYS THE LORD, WHO MAKES THESE THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO. 19 "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath." 22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas--Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren, 23 and they sent this letter by them, "The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings. 24 "Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, 25 it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 "Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." 30 So when they were sent away, they went down to Antioch; and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter. 31 When they had read it, they rejoiced because of its encouragement. 32 Judas and Silas, also being prophets themselves, encouraged and strengthened the brethren with a lengthy message. 33 After they had spent time there, they were sent away from the brethren in peace to those who had sent them out. 34 But it seemed good to Silas to remain there. 35 But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching with many others also, the word of the Lord. 36 After some days Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us return and visit the brethren in every city in which we proclaimed the word of the Lord, and see how they are." 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, called Mark, along with them also. 38 But Paul kept insisting that they should not take him along who had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work. 39 And there occurred such a sharp disagreement that they separated from one another, and Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus. 40 But Paul chose Silas and left, being committed by the brethren to the grace of the Lord. 41 And he was traveling through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
Romans 2:1-29 NASB - 1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. 17 But if you bear the name "Jew" and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18 and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, 21 you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 For "THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES BECAUSE OF YOU," just as it is written. 25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov
New member
Jacob asked, "What is 'this book of the law?'"
Answer: nonexistant. The phrase found in D'variym 31:26 is - סֵפֶר הַתּוֹרָה הַזֶּה- séfer haTorah hazzeh is literally translated "this Instruction Book." Broken down: séfer = "book;" haTorah = "the Torah/the Instruction;" hazzeh = "this one/this specific/this exact" etc. Therefore the correct English translation is "this Instruction Book."
No gentile anywhere on earth is required to observe the 613 Mitz'vot of Torah, which were given exclusively by God the the children of Yis'raél. Righteous gentiles are only required to observe the Seven Mitz'vot of the sons of Noaḥ. In fact gentiles are are completely forbidden from observing most of the 613.
There is no way anyone can be chr-stian and Jewish at the same time, because they two completely different and opposite belief systems. So you are being very dishonest in saying that you can be Jewish and Christian at the same time. In general, every Rabbinical council anywhere on earth will continuously try to talk any potential conversion candidate out of converting, because being an observant Jew is a lot more difficult than being an observant Noaḥide. But the very first thing you would have to do is completely abandon the chr-stian belief system. So you are indeed being dishonest.
Answer: nonexistant. The phrase found in D'variym 31:26 is - סֵפֶר הַתּוֹרָה הַזֶּה- séfer haTorah hazzeh is literally translated "this Instruction Book." Broken down: séfer = "book;" haTorah = "the Torah/the Instruction;" hazzeh = "this one/this specific/this exact" etc. Therefore the correct English translation is "this Instruction Book."
No gentile anywhere on earth is required to observe the 613 Mitz'vot of Torah, which were given exclusively by God the the children of Yis'raél. Righteous gentiles are only required to observe the Seven Mitz'vot of the sons of Noaḥ. In fact gentiles are are completely forbidden from observing most of the 613.
There is no way anyone can be chr-stian and Jewish at the same time, because they two completely different and opposite belief systems. So you are being very dishonest in saying that you can be Jewish and Christian at the same time. In general, every Rabbinical council anywhere on earth will continuously try to talk any potential conversion candidate out of converting, because being an observant Jew is a lot more difficult than being an observant Noaḥide. But the very first thing you would have to do is completely abandon the chr-stian belief system. So you are indeed being dishonest.
Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov;4723324 said:
I observe much of the Law of Moses even as a Christian. I have been told I am a Ger. Whether a convert or a proselyte my practice is Jewish but I have not abandoned Christianity.
In the New Testament we see that both a Jew and a Greek or a Gentile can believe on Yeshua as the Messiah and be a Christian.
A foreigner, for example, can join himself to the LORD and observe the Sabbath and the covenant.
Isaiah 56:1-12 NASB - 1 Thus says the LORD,"Preserve justice and do righteousness,For My salvation is about to comeAnd My righteousness to be revealed. 2 "How blessed is the man who does this,And the son of man who takes hold of it;Who keeps from profaning the sabbath,And keeps his hand from doing any evil." 3 Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say,"The LORD will surely separate me from His people."Nor let the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree." 4 For thus says the LORD,"To the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths,And choose what pleases Me,And hold fast My covenant, 5 To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial,And a name better than that of sons and daughters;I will give them an everlasting name which will not be cut off. 6 "Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD,To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD,To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbathAnd holds fast My covenant; 7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountainAnd make them joyful in My house of prayer.Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples." 8 The Lord GOD, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares,"Yet others I will gather to them, to those already gathered." 9 All you beasts of the field,All you beasts in the forest,Come to eat. 10 His watchmen are blind,All of them know nothing.All of them are mute dogs unable to bark,Dreamers lying down, who love to slumber; 11 And the dogs are greedy, they are not satisfied.And they are shepherds who have no understanding;They have all turned to their own way,Each one to his unjust gain, to the last one. 12 "Come," they say, "let us get wine, and let us drink heavily of strong drink;And tomorrow will be like today, only more so."
I believe the new covenant was for the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
Jeremiah 31:31-34 NASB - 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
Luke 22:7-20 NASB - 7 Then came the first day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8 And Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the Passover for us, so that we may eat it." 9 They said to Him, "Where do You want us to prepare it?" 10 And He said to them, "When you have entered the city, a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him into the house that he enters. 11 "And you shall say to the owner of the house, 'The Teacher says to you, "Where is the guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?"' 12 "And he will show you a large, furnished upper room; prepare it there." 13 And they left and found everything just as He had told them; and they prepared the Passover. 14 When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him. 15 And He said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16 for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God." 17 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, "Take this and share it among yourselves; 18 for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes." 19 And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." 20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.
Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov
New member
You are clueless and that is really the last thing I have to say about you and your delusional philosophies.
We are to obey God's commands even with belief in Yeshua as the Messiah.Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov;4723399 said:
Colossians 2:8 NASB - 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
JonahofAkron
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Where is that written?
Epoisses
New member
It's written in the heart. The OT is do this and don't do that which is for children. The NT is for adults who have freedom to make their own decisions. Why be a child and play with law toys when you can grow up and play with Spirit toys.
JonahofAkron
New member
I don't know that you've ever read the Bible. That's the most ignorant statement I've ever heard about the relationship of law and grace.
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Epoisses
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Most spiritual Christians look ignorant to carnal Christians. We're in the Spirit and it would be nice if you were too but you're just not.
JonahofAkron
New member
Hahaha. That's awesome. Thanks for the laugh. Interestingly, I'm not really in the mood to combat your nonsense. Maybe if you come back with actual reference for whatever it is you're babbling about, then I can take a crack at it.
And for clarity, where is it written that the 'nt' is for Christians?
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Epoisses
New member
Was the OT written to Christians? NO, because they're weren't any! The OT was just a shadow, the NT is the more perfect revelation. Jews converted to Christianity in the 1st century but today Christians convert to Judaism. We're living in the end of days.
glorydaz
Well-known member
"Carnal Christians".....now there's a real conundrum for ya.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I guess all those quotes by Jesus and Paul weren't really from the OT, were they? We should just blot them out of the book, mayhap.
Epoisses
New member
Have you joined Spiritual Israel yet? There's still room until we hit 12,000 then it gets closed down.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Have you been sipping from the communion cup again?