Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes, but are you under the impression that Christians are to preach the gospel to devils so they can be born again?
ECT What is the Will of God . . .
- Thread starter Cross Reference
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Yes, but are you under the impression that Christians are to preach the gospel to devils so they can be born again?
Head knowledge not heart knowledge.
Were they to really believe, they would also trust and be persuaded by it.
For a while believe is not to be fully persuaded or to trust. As I said, belief is a big word...not just head knowledge.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Evidently they did not believe in their hearts (Ro.10:9) because anyone with true faith knows that the truth will always be with them and they will never fall away from the truth:
"The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever" (2 Jn.1-2).
This is referring to the parable of the sower .
In yours and everyone elses understanding on this site , you first " believe " , then at that exact point , your given the Spirit of Christ .
If that's true ( which it is not ) 3 out of those four soils that fail in the parable of the sower would have had the Spirit of Christ in them already . Big problem for everyone's theology .
I have alL this explainable , in detail , but the facts I present , must be acknowledged and agreed to before moving forward . Your choices !
It is just head knowledge , mental ascent . Look up the definition of believe in the English dictionary and then continue to tell me I'm the one changing the meaning .
Rosenritter
New member
Rosenritter
New member
Heb 6:4-6 KJV
(4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
(5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
(6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
That sounds like me that there can be belief in the heart and that actual and from that full belief they can also be fallen away. The "once saved always saved" doctrine is dangerous, disregarding the warnings given to us, and nigh-close to Calvinism.
Rosenritter
New member
Really? You must be magically gifted to be able to discern the thoughts of those who have never said such a thing. Wherefore have you claimed this gift of the Spirit?
"For a while believe" is not believing in one's heart. It is not being fully persuaded. It is not trusting.
Which is what I stated. Context is everything with most words in the Bible.
First, that verse says it's impossible....to renew them again unto repentance. Which would mean, of course, that they were eternally lost and could never repent.
Second, the Jews were "partakers" of the Holy Ghost when they ate of the manna and drank from the rock.
Third, the author speaks of "things that accompany salvation" though he thus speaks of the above.
Heb. 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
AND Fourth, but not least, Hebrews is written specifically to the Jews.
I pay very close attention to you and everyone I speak with here . Your all in the same spot , God is calling you and awaits a genuine surrendered life and a life inspired by such surrender , not just a belief .
Fulfilling that is mandatory to just begin the Salvation journey , so it's kind of where I camp .
The context of pisteuo or saving Faith , always stems from the continually surrendered life .
Have you heard of the new creature? Do you believe that it is God that does the work in us?
You are outside the camp then.
You have no faith in Christ if you doubt His body is alive and well.
Have you not read Paul?
1 Corinthians 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
I camp out there for those who need directions to start the Salvation journey correctly . Or , to point out the stumbling blocks .
Fine, just don't assume you know who needs "directions to starts the salvation journey correctly".
We have people here who have been saved for forty plus years, and they have been on the "journey" without any help from you. People who have been created in Christ Jesus and who walk according to the Spirit..... while giving Christ all the Glory.
No mention of how well they've "surrendered" themselves, because boasting is excluded by the very Law of Faith.
Pisteuo or the application of Faith is simple to understand if one has done it and is doing it . If someone doesn't recognize how NT Faith is applied ( pisteuo ) how could they have started the journey ?
So if your in my shoes I not only have to show them the truth , but have to dismantle their current understandings . All while being misrepresented , called names , mocked , made fun of .
So , would I be correct when I say your beginning to see a surrendered life , the act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence , as the act of Faith the Greek word pisteuo communicates ?
Rosenritter
New member
No, you don't. If you paid attention you might have noticed that I do not disagree that our faith in Christ should be an ongoing and growing process. I also confirmed the point on surrender to Christ. What I have been pointing out is that you are mistaken as to the range of meaning of the Greek word faith, as the example I keep citing from James illustrates that you keep ignoring... The English is not in error, it well reflects the Greek usage in this case.
Rosenritter
New member
James 2:19 KJV
(19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:19 KJV+
(19) ThouG4771 believestG4100 thatG3754 there isG2076 oneG1520 God;G2316 thou doestG4160 well:G2573 theG3588 devilsG1140 alsoG2532 believe,G4100 andG2532 tremble.G5425
James 2:19 GNT-TR
(19) συ πιστευεις οτι ο θεος εις εστιν καλως ποιεις και τα δαιμονια πιστευουσιν και φρισσουσιν
| G4100 πιστεύω pisteuō pist-yoo'-o From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. |
No, Faither, the context of "pisteuo" is not always saving faith. Would you please stop persisting in such an easily discernible error? James is not talking about saving faith in that verse. If you won't be honest in the little things, why should anyone trust you further if you persist in repeating a proven falsehood?
Please amend your statement and move on. You may earn respect by doing so.