Funny, that is just what I was thinking might come up in my next post, the great commission: for if the Reform-Calvinist view was correct then we might not even have the writings we are discussing here in the first place. Where does the Master say in the great commission, "Go preach the Gospel to those whom you know the Father has chosen"??? (lol).
What is the Gospel?
- Thread starter Sonnet
- Start date
Funny, that is just what I was thinking might come up in my next post, the great commission: for if the Reform-Calvinist view was correct then we might not even have the writings we are discussing here in the first place. Where does the Master say in the great commission, "Go preach the Gospel to those whom you know the Father has chosen"??? (lol).
Verse 25 in Romans 3 is talking about God having been able to forgive the sins of men in past generations in His forbearance - in other words, as He looked ahead to His Son's coming to die for those past sins.
It is asserting that God Himself had had faith in His Son's then yet future, fully satisfying sacrifice, one day; that He had had faith that His Son would be faithful to what He would one day come to accomplish.
Verse 26 then relates that said fully satisfying sacrifice was NOW being made known, this side, of said fully satisfying sacrifice.
This faith of God is a wonderous study in all its own aspects, in its own right.
And as Clete rightly noted, there are many aspects to, and contained within, the gospel of Christ preached by Paul.
Rom. 5:6-8.
I was speaking to/unto/toward what I have already commented on earlier in this thread in my very first post, (which appears to still be an ongoing topic of discussion), which previous post no one "chose" to respond to: so according to the Reform position concerning God, (and believe me I am not comparing myself to God, but God speaks to us in terms we can understand), my offer would not have even been a genuine offer to anyone because no one chose to respond to what I said, lol. Understand? There are many different directions and things that we can glean and understand from the passage which I quoted but my specific point deals with two words:
Romans 3:22 T/R (Textus Receptus)
22 δικαιοσυνη δε θεου δια πιστεως ιησου χριστου εις παντας και επι παντας τους πιστευοντας ου γαρ εστι διαστολη
"εις παντας" = "to/unto/toward all"
Moreover "και επι παντας τους πιστευοντας" is understood to say "and upon all those believing"
Or do you agree with AMR:
Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion
...What I have stated is that the good news is not genuinely offered to each and every person, for obviously if this were true each and every person will be saved. To assume that such an offer can be made to each and every person is to assume God is unable to do what He has willed to do, for it is clear not all are saved...
AMR
(my emphasis)
"εις παντας" = "to/unto/toward all" = "the logos-reasoning of AMR is erroneous" . . .
Lol, I did not say that you responded to any "offer" of mine: but if you had, would you have changed my will? for until now, (according to the Reform view), it would not have been a legitimate offer to anyone because no one responded. Apparently according to the Reform position it would not have been a legitimate offer to/unto/toward you to begin with, and as Sonnet has already said elsewhere here, it would have been a somewhat disingenuous offer because I used the word "whosoever" but supposedly only really really meant it to/unto/toward those who actually respond, (according to the Reform-Calvinist position).
But about this statement:
"I was merely pointing out what I pointed out for you to consider. Nothing more."
How do I know whether or not that is a genuine offer? :chuckle:
excellent catch; this is what they disregard conveniently.
There are so many inconvenient statement from Jesus for MADism, that's the reason why they say Jesus' word or teachings are not for the gentiles, IMO
Why does Jesus use parables? Who are those that are "without"?
Mark 4:10-12 KJV - 10 [FONT="]And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.[/FONT][FONT="]11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.[/FONT]
I will answer that for you Danoh: all I would need to do is believe you and take you at your word, (not what someone else tells me that you said or supposedly really really meant).
Here are some statements from the Scripture that we all truly should just believe and trust:
Isaiah 55:1-5 LXX-Septuagint (Brenton Translation)
1 Ye that thirst, go to the water, and all that have no money, go and buy; and eat and drink wine and fat without money or price.
2 Wherefore do ye value at the price of money, and give your labour for that which will not satisfy? hearken to me, and ye shall eat that which is good, and your soul shall feast itself on good things.
3 Give heed with your ears, and follow my ways: hearken to me, and your soul shall live in prosperity; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant, the sure mercies of David.Acts 13:34
4 Behold I have made him a testimony among the Gentiles, a prince and commander to the Gentiles.
5 Nations which know thee not, shall call upon thee, and peoples which are not acquainted with thee, shall flee to thee for refuge, for the sake of the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel; for he has glorified thee.
John 7:37-38 HNV
37 Now on the last day of the feast, Hoshana Rabbah, Yeshua stood and cried out, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink!
38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water."
Revelation 22:16-17 HNV
16 I, Yeshua, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David; the Bright and Morning Star."
17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" He who hears, let him say, "Come!" He who is thirsty, let him come. He who desires, let him take the water of life freely.
These are not disingenuous offers but real, and genuine, and legitimate, and offered to whosoever wills with their will and desires to come and eat of the Bread of Life, (the Word), and to drink of the Living Water, (the Word), of Elohim.
Sorry but that would indeed take this way off topic, (it is a long discussion). It is a body-temple analogy: those without are "enemies for the sake of the Gospel but beloved of the fathers", (for sin dwells in the flesh, Romans 7, which is the outer-bounds or eretz-badlands of your house-body-temple with its lands and fields, (where the tares also grow, lol)).
Well, that was more of a reference to the Reform view, but yeah.
Oh, ok. thanks.
But Calvinists and MADs seem to agree on most of their claims.
musterion
Well-known member
By a professed unbeliever, no less.
Exactly why I'm baffled that people are still taking this thread seriously.
That does seem more true lately: perhaps there is a paradigm shift in progress around here? :idunno:
LOL, daqq I thought I was in the open theism debate thread :chuckle:
One thing is that Calvinists here don't want to say anything against the Forum owners.
It is because Calvinist were initially rejected by most MADs and they started to flirt with them.
So they support many things what MADs say to ease their rejection.
Come to think of, they are very similar in many things. The both don't seem to esteem Jesus' word much.
I did not understand why they did not like Calvinists.
But now it is changed. Because they do not cross the MADs.
this is my observation.
:chuckle:
I have been here much longer than you, if you are not one of the socks.
Lol, wake up "sunny"! Did you forget what I said?
When you awaken, the "greater light" rises to rule the day!
I keep seeing these accusations but never with any quotation or post references.
It's called Christianity. The term "Free Will" works fine for a title used to distinguish a particular doctrine I suppose but it really is a redundancy. There is no such thing as a will that is not free. If you are not free to choose, you have no will - period.
Oh boo-hoo!
Look, you either need to grow a thicker skin or else find a different hobby. It would help if you'd start practicing biblical forgiveness rather than the blanket, forgive everyone for everything nonsense that permeates popular culture and most churches. It isn't right to forgive those who have not repented. Paul tells us that we will judge the world and even the angels and Jesus teaches us to judge rightly. Do so!
Resting in Him,
Clete