I don't deny what Josephus wrote about the three towers and the Western wall.
I deny that somehow you think three towers and a western wall nullifies the prophecy.
ECT What is Preterism
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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I don't deny what Josephus wrote about the three towers and the Western wall.
I deny that somehow you think three towers and a western wall nullifies the prophecy.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
Luke 9
27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
2 Peter 1
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
Peter didn't see the coming of the Lord.
Peter saw His majesty. There is a difference.
Maybe a modern translation will help you be less confused:
(2 Peter 1:16 MSG)We weren’t, you know, just wishing on a star when we laid the facts out before you regarding the powerful return of our Master, Jesus Christ. We were there for the preview! We saw it with our own eyes: Jesus resplendent with light from God the Father as the voice of Majestic Glory spoke: “This is my Son, marked by my love, focus of all my delight.” We were there on the holy mountain with him. We heard the voice out of heaven with our very own ears.
Again, Matt 16:27 makes it clear that rewards were to be given at "the coming of the Lord".
Were rewards given to all men at the Transfiguration?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
2 Peter 1
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
Darby followers such as STP claim Matt 16:28 was fulfilled six days later at the Transfiguration.
These Darby followers make that claim, but ALWAYS ignore the previous verse:
(Matt 16:27 KJV) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Not only were there no angels at the Transfiguration, not every man was rewarded according to his works at the Transfiguration.
Yet, STP won't even address verse 27.
These Darby followers make that claim, but ALWAYS ignore the previous verse:
(Matt 16:27 KJV) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Not only were there no angels at the Transfiguration, not every man was rewarded according to his works at the Transfiguration.
Yet, STP won't even address verse 27.
Being an eyewitness to the majesty of Christ Jesus is not seeing the Coming of the Lord.
Does Peter say there were angels and rewards given to all men at the Transfiguration?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
It was a vision.
Peter saw it.
Why was there 7 days between his statement and the transfiguration?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
2 Peter 1
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
Peter, John, and James were taken atop a mountain by Jesus. While there, Christ Jesus was transfigured before them, and then Moses and Elijah appeared, then they heard God's voice, then they fell down, got back up and walked down the mountain.
That wasn't "The coming of the Lord" that was prophesied in Matt 16:27-28.
Jesus didn't come with angels, and there were no rewards given to all men.
That's like asking why was there 2 days in the following verse?
(John 4:43 KJV) Now after two days he departed thence, and went into Galilee.
The better question is why would Jesus tell them some of them would not die, for an event that was 6 or 7 days away?
The verse does not say they saw "The coming of the Lord".
It specifically says they saw His majesty.
As I stated before, STP always purposely excludes verse 27 when he quotes Matt 16:28
Here it the context:
(Matt 16:27-28) For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
As we see in context, there would be angels and rewards given at "The coming of the Lord".
There were no angels and rewards at the Transfiguration.
Yet, STP will continue to ignore verse 27 because he can't have Matt 16:27-28 being fulfilled in 70AD because his Dispensationalism falls apart.
Here it the context:
(Matt 16:27-28) For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
As we see in context, there would be angels and rewards given at "The coming of the Lord".
There were no angels and rewards at the Transfiguration.
Yet, STP will continue to ignore verse 27 because he can't have Matt 16:27-28 being fulfilled in 70AD because his Dispensationalism falls apart.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Read it again.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
The vision is not the 2nd Coming, genius!
it was a vision.
Read what the Lord said in Matthew 16, and what Peter said in 2 Peter 1.
Rocket Science, this is not.
Interplanner
Well-known member
So obviously, as Mt 24B sounds until the statement 'not even the Son knows' the plan was for the judgement of the whole world right after that of Israel. Unless there was a delay in the whole world's judgement. There was not in the case of Israel. And that is where we are today. The reign of God came and is in effect to this day.
There wasn't a delay.
The judgment came in 70AD
Three feasts each year required Jews to make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem.
We find this in Acts 2. Jews from every nation under heaven came to Jerusalem.
(Acts 2:5) Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.
In 70AD, the same thing happened. Jews from every nation came to Jerusalem for the feast.
Josephus tells us:
"Now the number of those that were taken captive during the whole war was calculated to be ninety-seven thousand, and those that perished during the siege one million one hundred thousand. Of these, the greater part were indeed of the same nation but did not live in the city itself, for they had come up from throughout the country to the Feast Unleavened Bread and were suddenly shut up by an army, " - Josephus, War 6.9.3 421-435
As we see, Jews from every nation came to Jerusalem for the feast, and then were trapped inside the city when the Romans surrounded it.
Therefore, judgment came upon the Jews from "every nation under heaven" in 70AD.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Sorry no can do--limit it to Jews. The elect are from the four winds, and from end of the heavens to the other. Clearly there will be non-Jews there, Christ lead 'captivity captive' and managed a victory among the principalities and powers. Heaven is full of beings/entities, not empty. We will be very surprised there.
What delay is Peter referring to (and for that matter, what coming)? Why does Mark 13 allow for 4 times?
The 40 years from the cross to 70AD.
There is only one "the coming of the Lord", it happened in 70AD
If so, why are only the people of Judaea told to flee to the mountains?
Prove it:Identify this "everyone" that allegedly saw this "un physical" Saviour allegedly return in AD 70, in the form of the Roman army, sweetie.
What's the problem, little arms Craigie? Are your arms so little, that this question is too heavy for you, as I, and others, have asked you this, for years, and you are embarrassed, desperate, in denial, not able to answer it?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
He never said that. Why are you in denial about it?