Theology Club: What is Open Theism?

Nang

TOL Subscriber
God, as you should know, has determined that we should come to the conclusion that some things are not determined.

Once you have decided that God has determined "all things" there's nothing more for you to say, nothing we can say, no question you can ask, that has any other answer.

--Dave

Indeed. Thus your fate is settled.

Romans 9:21-22
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Peano? Is that noir, or grigio?

:eek:

Peano! not Pinot!

:chuckle:

Very clever! It took me a while to get it! I'm not too up on wines. The only wines I like are moscato wines and even those taste terrible if the bottle's been open for more than 12 hours.
 

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
That is my answer.

Then your God is outside of time, not in time.

Your unwillingness to just answer the question directly demonstrates your theological insecurity.

The next question you need not answer because it's rhetorical.

Is your God in everywhere and in everything?

--Dave
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Then your God is outside of time, not in time.

Your unwillingness to just answer the question directly demonstrates your theological insecurity.

You are demanding I answer according to your premise, not my own premise.

I have answered you according to my beliefs, not yours.

The next question you need not answer because it's rhetorical.

Is your God in everywhere and in everything?

--Dave

I will answer this particular question, in order to make myself clear . . .

I do not hold to Pantheism, as your rhetorical question might infer.

Nang
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Please answer my question.

--Dave
I noticed she didn't provide any Scripture to support the ideas she presented: that God created time, defines it, controls or will end it...

Peano! not Pinot!

:chuckle:

Very clever! It took me a while to get it! I'm not too up on wines. The only wines I like are moscato wines and even those taste terrible if the bottle's been open for more than 12 hours.
:D

I don't like wine either, but I watch a lot of TV and movies about rich people.:ha:

Now that I have your attention: it was either in this thread, or another on the OV, where you quoted Shasta; but because of Shasta's poor formatting it attributed the quote to me. Can you fix that, please?
 

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
You are demanding I answer according to your premise, not my own premise.

I have answered you according to my beliefs, not yours.

I will answer this particular question, in order to make myself clear . . .

I do not hold to Pantheism, as your rhetorical question might infer.

Nang

:darwinsm::rotfl:

--Dave and Clete
 

DFT_Dave

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
You are demanding I answer according to your premise, not my own premise.

I have answered you according to my beliefs, not yours.

I will answer this particular question, in order to make myself clear . . .

I do not hold to Pantheism, as your rhetorical question might infer.

Nang

Your belief is that God is everywhere, except in time!

--Dave
 

Vaquero45

New member
Hall of Fame
To say that God lacks knowledge, is to limit His ability to save souls.
How?

If you believe God IS able to save all, what stops Him?
His choice to give us a will of our own. He could save everyone regardless of their desire but that is not how He made the world, nor would it be consistent with justice.

The unbelief of men?
Yes, we disagree with the cause of unbelief, but in a nutshell, yes.

Then you are saying what I say. God is unable to save unbelieving men.
Coming from quite different directions, but yes, same answer.



I agree completely . . .
I wouldn't go as far as to say "completely", :) but same bottom line answer.

I am wondering if you, or Dave, or Clete can answer how OT'ers come to the conclusion some things are not determined.
THe Bible is filled with examples, it would be harder to find a page that doesn't suggest things are not all determined. Every time God judges men, every time He or His prophets tell men to do right or follow a law it suggests God didn't just program/determine us to do whatever we do.
Can you actually name and identify what God does NOT determine?
See every example I described above. (maybe not that simply but generally every situation that fits God judging us or exhorting us)

What part of creation is God unaware of? What part of creation was not designed and made by His hand? (Psalm 139; Ephesians 2:10)

I wouldn't argue that God is unaware of any aspect of creation, unless He chooses to be. The old example of reflections from a chrome bumper comes to mind. Infinite data is being created infinitely as a car drives down the street, not to mention the movement of the things being reflected. Can God be aware of every bit of it? Yes. Would He care/choose to? I don't believe so.

What is your definition and explanation of predestination as taught in the creation as well as in the Holy Scriptures?
My definition would mostly likely be the same as yours, explanation would vary per topic, but the biggie you are most likely after is that the Body of Christ was predestined corporately.


(I'm going to try to not be so punchy, I was in a mood when I posted before, you ignored my jabs in your response and I commend you for it)
added in edit, I apologize for jumping you in my previous post, was inappropriate.
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
Why did God bring the animals to Adam to see what He would name them?

Why did God tell Abraham that He now knew Abraham loved Him?

Why did God need to go into S&G to find out if the outcries were true?

Why did Abraham think God could change His mind about destroying the cities? Why did he bargain with God and keep lowering the number as though he didn't think God already knew the number of righteous men in the city?

Why did Jonah think God could change His mind about destroying Nineveh?

Why did David think God could change His mind about his firstborn with Bathsheba?
 
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