Oh, come on, you know you miss being in court. It's no secret that you treat TOL as a surrogate
. I did time (court ordered by my wife, LOL) as an aide on my off time from work when my kids were in kg. It was fun but I had the same experience you had/have. Dads don't usually show up at school to help out or "observe" and, since dads are often thought of by kids as the "fun" parent, mahem often skips the insurance commercials.Thanks. The Keys are nice but a two-lane road mades getting anywhere problematic. I was last at Scout Key (next to Big Pine Key) for an annual week long "star party" last February, the skies were spectacular! As I recall, you live near Mobile though I didn't know that you started out in Florida. I'm from near Birmingham, sweet home.Your son is a big chip, luckily he has his mom's looks and brains :chuckle:. There's volumes I could write about my kids but in the spirit of brevity, no father could be prouder of who they are and what they have accomplished.
Excellent. I think we are similarly fortunate men, to have married above us and feasted on the fruits of good fortune.
I can't see how what christians belief is any less a construct.
You'd have to approach it that way, but you also have to recognize that we don't. That distinction is important, with or without either of us being able to empirically move the point.
You're going to have a tough row to hoe to show that your "indepent good" is "absolute and objective".
It's really just another way of renaming the divide. If God/then. If not/then.
How does one BELIEVE in something objective? Belief belies the objective
I believe in the value of science. I know the scientific method works. The latter does not inherently promote the former. In fact, were you a survivor of Hiroshima you might not find the former palatable at all. I believe that I exist. Can I prove to you that I do? Can I know that you exist?
You can believe your deity exists but you can't objectively show it to anyone nor can you demonstrate that it is the source of value, meaning and purpose in the universe.
And no atheist living or dead has ever met the challenge of supplying an objective standard that, if met, would satisfy on the point...which is no real condemnation, given the empirical cannot adequately address it. If God/then the rest follows.
Conversely, when you propose a "positive" that you can't know to be true, it's wishful thinking.
No, it's faith. I made the distinction. I'm not attempting to produce God, but recognizing what I believe is the reality of him. To someone who stands outside of that faith it would be, if they desired it but were unconvinced, a wish.
I don't accept that death being absolute is necessarily negative; it just is.
But it isn't just in any sense. Or, you can accept, if you like, that death is inevitable, but you will not convince me (or, I think, yourself) that life isn't preferable within your context. And if life is preferable then the alternative is lesser.
In the absence of evidence to the contrary, remember the atheist has no burden of proof here, an atheistic (skeptical) position is reasonable and rational.
A man who looks for evidence in the dark isn't really looking for anything but darkness. Or, we can only know, at the foundation, that God either is or isn't. But we cannot live by that state. The moment we make a moral choice we begin the process of choosing our context.
The absence of certainty isn't faith.
I'd agree. Faith is believing in a thing you can't prove. That faith can be affirmational in nature or nihilistic.
Life ends, that's certain; expecting an afterlife, that's faith.
Absolutely. As is saying there is no God and no afterlife. Any proposition that can't be objectively, independently verified is a statement of faith. And everyone will make their statement, by word and/or deed.
Absent evidence, I'm of the opinion that skepticism is more reasonable.
There isn't a lack of evidence, only a want of irrefutable proof, outside the experience of God, which is inherently subjective. I don't, however, find skepticism reasonable if it leads to an inferior choice in life context, one at odds with human imperatives and does so without proof, only faith resting on the lack of experience of a thing, which if experienced could never be used to satisfy the standard no one can arrive at.
Life.
Of course I've chosen a context. Well, accepted then. My case is a bit peculiar.
2) For one of us at least
Well then, we both have faith in you and God will suffice for me if you're unable.
By the same criteria you've decided on the validity of christianity, none at all.
Now that's a disappointing presumption, but no. That's not really how it happened. Also, Christianity is still a proper noun...and if you can't manage that you might want to rethink how objectively you're approaching my faith...it's no mortal wound or even particularly offensive to me, but it is a bit silly.
You can't objectively show Buddhism false any more than you can objectively show christianity to be true.Auto fill and that I'm working from a cell phone and that I don't capitalize "atheism" (some here say it's a religion), but mostly because it annoys picky christians.
I think it puts you in worse company than you deserve, but I won't belabor it.
My premise is rock solid absent evidence otherwise. Think of it as a scientific theory, falsify it. As I said, show me "god" and I'm certain I'll change my mind.
I think that anyone who asks for a thing should be able to name what it is they're asking for, supra.
Sure, humans long for justice and absent sufficient reparation in life desire compensation for wrongdoing after death, which takes many forms depending on the culture. The christian believes recompense will be made for, to, and by a "just god".
A Christian believes in consequence. Justice is the working of a moral consequence. But we also believe in mercy and the transformational power of grace.
It's a nice notion and one many atheists, even I, could/would support for the more infamous in history. Alas, we don't/can't know if that fate awaits. The certainty is that their evil is gone when they die. Another nice notion that lacks something.
An incomplete picture that lacks the context Christians bring to it. A Christian would rather Hitler had repented and been reconciled to God, but absent grace, he must stand in his sin and be judged by it.
I'd venture to say that good christians and good atheists populate Earth in equal proportions, except in government.
There are no atheists in the government hole...or something like that.
The difference is the "good" atheist is "good" for the sake of their fellow man; the christian is "good" because of a perceived "accounting that no man escapes absent mercy".
Where I'd say the atheist serves his ego (doing what he wills to serve what he values) and the faithful serve the judge of their egos (doing what He wills to serve what He values). But setting that aside, I don't do good to escape judgment. My sins have been accounted for. Rather, I seek my pleasure in His pleasure and find it there. By way of, today I washed and cared for this little, ancient Presbyterian church I attend. I found the service both physically draining and spiritually uplifting. I wasn't looking for gain from it outside of the pleasure of being of service. Wonderful time, though I shouldn't have started as late as I did given the weather.
You can be a rational christian or you can be a certain christian, but you can't be both.
That doesn't follow. An atheist cannot claim to know more than he can prove. He can at best be uncertain. If he steps outside of that he is being irrational by his own light...A Christian is certain in his subjective experience of God. He isn't making an empirical judgment or claim because he understands empiricism can no more settle the question than I can boil a potato with my hands. It isn't the premise of Christianity that only that which is empirically demonstrable is true.
Are you certain your version of deity exists? If so, you can't be thinking rationally.
I differ. It is rational, where one must choose between contexts, neither of which is demonstrably true, to choose the context that offers the best possible outcome and the better course else. My belief aligns with my nature, its imperatives, and the things that spring from them, like that desire for justice. To be fair, again, I didn't come to faith in contemplation, like Lewis, but as I say from time to time, while I did not reason my way to faith I find my faith at every point defensible by that faculty.
Thank you for your concern though unnecessary,
Within my context it is a necessary concern, but I appreciate the sentiment. I'll keep you in my prayers and trust God for the rest.
I do value our friendship.Thank you, my best to yours as well. Have a safe 4th. Roll Tide!
I knew you were a member of some faith. :chuckle: Have a wonderful 4th. :cheers:
