If you call this actual agreement with my post a disagreement with it; you are even less aware of your own cogitations than you think you are :chuckle:
ECT WHAT DOES Gal 3:1 REALLY MEAN ??
- Thread starter DAN P
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If you call this actual agreement with my post a disagreement with it; you are even less aware of your own cogitations than you think you are :chuckle:
Hi and those that have FALLEN from Grace have not LOST their salvation as we ESTE / ARE in Christ forever , because we are all in the PRESENT TENSE IN THE Dispensation of the Grace of God and since I have asked all how were you saved , you are OSAS but you can not prove it since you can not prove how you were SAVED , can you , GRASSHOPPER ??
dan p
andyc
New member
I wasn't agreeing with you.
andyc
New member
Paul feared that his labor was in vain because they were becoming the very thing that the gospel saves people from.
If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend this an't the case, go ahead.
As for my testimony - I have no interest in watching you (a cult member) pick it apart for your own amusement. It would pearls to swine, and I have better things to do.
Hi and I have asked many in this forum and you are just one of those who are ASHAMED and do not know and when you believe that you can be LOST , you should FIRE your Pastor and Sunday school teacher which also means that you are not certain of any thing , is what I see !!
dan p
Hi and I have asked many in this forum and you are just one of those who are ASHAMED and do not know and when you believe that you can be LOST , you should FIRE your Pastor and Sunday school teacher which also means that you are not certain of any thing , is what I see , and that is why you are PENTECOSTAL !!
dan p
After reading Galatians, trying to squeeze any point of Moses into the New Covenant, is like trying to squeeze Rosie O'Donnell and Oprah into one pair of size zero jeans at the same time.
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
Yours was your half empty to my half full and vice versa.
We were both basically saying a similar; thing in different ways.
:doh:
Geez are you obtuse...
Further, you should both ask and answer the question you ask.
Unless you were just baiting and or setting up a tooting of your own horn; either of which would be just like you.
You make yourself an enemy and then point fingers :chuckle:
andyc
New member
I've given my testimony here more than once, even to you once. But because you're not actually interested in people's testimonies except to pick them apart, why should I throw my pearls to swine?
The fact I've already once told you how I was saved, and you don't remember, shows that your only interest is to examine it to see if it passes your cult standard. No thanks.
As for OSAS, another subject change, I believe in eternal security for the believer. As long as you believe, you are saved. Faith is the condition, and remains the condition. A person cannot sin their way out of salvation, and people cannot be saved lost, saved lost, saved lost. People are saved when they believe, and as long as they continue to believe, they remain saved. If someone trashes their faith, they are lost forever, with no hope of ever being brought back to repentance (Heb 6:4-5).
Col 1:21-24
And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard
Did you always believe salvation could be lost, or is that part something you learned later?
Thanks
I have never believed salvation can be lost...
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
andyc
New member
Pointless rant.
Paul feared the Galatians were turning from Christ to Judaism, which if they did to the point of abandoning faith, Paul's labor among them was in vain. This would mean they were lost. Otherwise Paul's labor among them could never be in vain if they could never be lost.
andyc
New member
'Sealed' simply means "property of God". Anyone who is saved, is God's child. And the Holy Spirit is the seal of ownership.
This does not remove a person's will to possibly disown God through unbelief.
Rom 11:20-23
Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith.
Faith = stand
Unbelief = cut off
Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness.
See the word "if"?
There is a condition in place where we receive the goodness of God, or face the severity of God.
Otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in
Unbelief = being cut off.
After that, and your post prior, I can see we are not seeing the same thing - you believe a saved person can lose what they could not even earn; let alone maintain.
You are severely confused - not even Hebrews teachs the Hebrews that other than through your oversimplification (isolating a passage from its' overall scope and context, and then taking said passage TOO literally).
What - a - mess...
andyc
New member
Nope.
I used to believe in the salvation on a string doctrine. Saved lost saved lost saved lost / sin repent sin repent sin repent.
Then changed to once saved always saved, but wasn't happy about so many verses in scripture denying OSAS.
I prayed sincerely for a balanced answer, and noticed that there was one common denominator with every problem verse for OSAS, and that was faith.
andyc
New member
Why don't you just believe what the passage says?
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Paul is going out of his way to describe a Spirit filled believer who once craved the word of God. And you still fight it in your conscience.
You know why? because it's inconvenient to your theology. You are the mess.
Those cut off had a standing offer of access, they did not have possession.
Access is made possession by faith.
Those cut off never believed to begin with.
They were not the BELIEVING remnant.
The Gentiles now have this standing offer of access.
Possession is not automatic here either.
Possession is made possession by faith.
Paul is warning Gentiles - NOT the Body.
When this standing offer of access by faith is removed, those Gentiles who had refused to belief will be cut off from said offer.
What is being referred to is a standing offer (temporary offer) of access by faith into a right standing before God and therefore at peace with Him in his Son.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
The result for those who have this right standing before God when this standing or temporary offer of access by faith is removed one day?
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Why do we have that?
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
No. That is you reading that it is inconvenient to my theology.
You think you are a mind reader, just as you think you are reading the mind of that passage in Hebrews.
Which is actually referring to those who had witnessed the signs and wonders that took place in Acts 2, benefitted from the healings, etc., a foretate of their world to come, but refused to believe the gospel of their salvation.
He is talking to lost Israelites.
It is referring to - guess who - unbelieving Hebrews.
It even tells you that in Hebrews 2.
This has nothing to do with some perceived inconvenience on my part.
That is your mind reading projection in your ignorance :chuckle:
When you changed to osas for that time; why did you?
I'm trying to understand your journey (rather than ignorantly read into it as you have been doing as to mine).
I'm sure that of the many from all kinds of understandings who claim having prayed sincerely, some did.
But that is not how this works.
How it works is sound study principles.
The cannon is complete - the men who were promised would be led unto all truth by the Spirit wrote it down and now the Spirit only teaches and or speaks through his Word.
Each time He'd reveal more Scripture - to a next writer - said writer would write it down and that and all that had gone before was then His Word in light of said latest Word.
And that is over.
Peter, he looked to days after his passing notes this is the case, despite his having touched and handled the Lord....
2 Peter 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. 1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
What did Isaiah place above his God given words?
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Daniel did likewise...
Daniel 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
And on it goes.
You want leading; get in THE Book (Revelatiom thru Genesis).
Not in notions of "Well, I prayed sincerely."